A question is likely headed to the 2016 statewide ballot that would legalize recreational marijuana, taking after states like Colorado and Washington, which took the lead on legalization years ago. State Senator Jason Lewis has just returned from a “fact-finding” quest to Colorado, as part of a team of eight on the Senate Special Committee on Marijuana. The team met with Colorado state government officials, public health officials, law enforcement, the agricultural department, retailers, cultivators, and manufacturers to see what’s working, what’s not, and whether or not Massachusetts could be the next state taking up toking up.
JIM: The taxpayers didn’t pay for this, who payed for this?
LEWIS: The trip was funded and organized by the Milbank Memorial Fund, which is a nonprofit, nonpartisan health foundation, and they help bring together state policymakers on a variety of health issues, and the idea is to share best practices and learning. They thought this was a good opportunity to help Massachusetts lawmakers learn about the Colorado experience.
MARGERY: When you were out there, what were the pros that the politicians and everyone you spoke with mentioned about the legalization?
LEWIS: Colorado has had decriminalization for decades. They were well ahead of Massachusetts and other states for decriminalizing. They’ve also had medical marijuana for about 15 years, so they’ve had a lot more experience with marijuana then we’ve had in the Commonwealth. They had legalization for recreational purposes since the ballot question in 2012.
The actual retail stores opened in 2014, so they’ve had about two years.
The good things? I think they would say, for those adults who want to consume marijuana, they can get it. The product is probably safer than when it was on the black market, probably not cheaper, but similarly priced. There has been some job creation and some economic development, they estimate about 20,000 jobs. Most of those, however, are fairly low-paying jobs in cultivation in retail. In the Denver area, where a lot of the activity is, they have filled a lot of empty warehouses. They may have driven out some businesses because the rents have gone up, but it has filled a lot of empty space.
MARGERY: What about the tax revenue? That’s one of the main reasons, right?
It’s interesting, I didn’t mention that. The reason is—there is tax revenue, no doubt. Colorado estimates the revenue will be about $70—$100 million this year, but that’s in a $27 billion budget. Colorado’s a little smaller than Massachusetts, their budget is a little bit smaller, so $70—$100 million out of $27 billion doesn’t solve all your problems. Then you have to look at the costs of actually regulating and enforcing the industry. Just to give you a few examples,
The marijuana enforcement division, which is part of their department of revenue, has about 70 employees. That’s probably five to seven million dollars right there, and they say they don’t have enough people to do their job.
The department of agriculture, which has to regulate the growing and cultivation, told us they have to double their budget, which means they need another $3 million per year to regulate. The city of Denver, which is similar to Boston in size, estimates that they’re spending $9 million per year on staff and public health campaigns. You can see it adds up pretty quickly, so that money is not going to do a lot more than regulate marijuana.
MARGERY: One of the big pro-marijuana arguments is the incarceration issue. We have a front page story in the Globe today that talks about SWAT teams going into the home of Bill Downing, who has been a big proponent of marijuana legalization. Law enforcement spends a lot now.
LEWIS: Actually, the reality is, since we decriminalized, there are actually very very few people, it’s in the single digits, that are arrested for just simple possession of an ounce, or less, because that’s what we decriminalized. I was with District Attorney Marian Ryan, who is the DA of Middlesex county yesterday for an MLK event, I put the question to her directly, and she said it almost never happens anymore.
When there are arrests and convictions, it’s for possession of large quantities with intent to distribute. Before decriminalization, I think that would have been a strong argument, that we have people who are being arrested, and it is taking up law enforcement resources, but I think that’s largely changed since decriminalization
JIM: When you said it’s pretty much a wash with regulatory costs, you listed maybe $20 million in regulatory costs, and you said it’s going to raise $70 to $100 in Colorado. You and your colleagues, I bet, would love to have $50—$80 million additional for your school district, or whatever it is this money could be spent for?
LEWIS: Well, I didn’t finish the full list. Another thing they’re doing—the department of public health is rolling out two different campaigns. One is aimed at adults, and it’s trying to explain how to use marijuana responsibly. For example, you can’t use it in public places, you can’t possess more than an ounce, you can’t drive while using marijuana… the second campaign is aimed at kids, and it’s trying to explain that it’s not something they should be using, it affects brain development and things like that.
JIM: So you say that wipes out all of the tax revenue?
LEWIS: That’s a 7 million dollar campaign they’re rolling out, that’s their second campaign because the first one kind of failed miserably. They didn’t really get the message right, they talked about lab rats and things like that, kids didn’t respond too well.
There is some money left over, according to their ballot question, some of the money has to go into their school building fund, so there is some money going there… I guess what I wanted to say was, this is not going to solve our [MBTA] problems, this is not going to solve our school funding problems… there would be a little bit of money left over, but at least in the first few years, there’s a lot of startup costs.
JIM: Let’s get the negatives on the table, if I may, because you listed the positives. There’s no formal report from the eight of you until February, so we know you’re speaking for yourself.
LEWIS: The Senate Special Committee on Marijuana, ten senators all together, will have a report with our findings in February. At this point, while we’re working on the report, I don’t have an official position on the ballot question or legalization, although I do expect to take a position later—I think I owe it to my constituents.
Some of the challenges that they’ve seen, certainly youth consumption… there isn’t really clear data yet in terms of whether that’s gone up or down. Colorado, even before legalization, had one of the highest youth usage rates in the entire country, and I think they’re right at the top now, but it’s hard to pinpoint whether legalization is the cause of that.
There have been some issues with consumption of edibles, we haven’t really talked about that yet but THC is infused with everything you can imagine, including salad dressing… I mean, some really crazy things.
People don’t always know how much to eat, you don’t get high right away, there can be a delay, they might over-consume, there have been some hospitalizations…
I know Margery had a rookie cookie at one point.
A lot of this is people who are not as familiar with marijuana, but there are some issues there, and then the other thing I want to mention is: driving under the influence is a growing problem as well.
MARGERY: I was just out in Colorado, and I did have a ‘Rookie Cookie,’ and one of the things that surprised me… in the places that I went to (to do my investigative reporting on the marijuana business) I was stunned with the amount of instruction, you know exactly how much THC was in each edible product, it told you on the label. It was like taking aspirin, but more extensive. It was elaborate. I thought wow, if you’re going to consume marijuana, this is a far preferable way than buying it from who-knows-who on the street, especially for children.
LEWIS: Everything you’re referring to was based on what Colorado learned since legalization. When they first legalized, they didn’t have serving-size recommendations, they didn’t have those labeling requirements… they saw what happened, and to their credit, I think they have been very quick to respond. It has taken a lot of work. The Colorado legislature, in the last session, passed 12 bills related to marijuana. Yes, they have responded when these issues have come up, and I think the continually make progress. Edibles and labeling and packaging is a good example, but it’s been challenging. They’ve had to respond and deal with these issues quickly.
JIM: Did you try it? did any of your seven colleagues try it?
Not to my knowledge. I think we felt that wasn’t the purpose of the trip, we were there to talk to all the experts, to learn about all the regulatory issues, enforcement issues, licensing, financial issues, banking issues, we didn’t think that was really necessary or appropriate.
JIM: Do you think your colleagues are telling the truth?
I think they are! I trust them.
MARGERY: What an opportunity! You all could have your rookie cookies, and gone out to some nice scenic restaurant, had a couple of cups of coffee and enjoyed your rookie cookie and had firsthand evidence of what the whole thing is about! Have you ever smoked pot?
LEWIS: A few times, in high school and college, so I know what I’m talking about.
Jim: It’s a shame you never amounted to anything.
LEWIS: I should point out to those with that memory—the way marijuana is consumed today in Colorado and Washington, and even here in our own state is vastly different. Much higher potency. The joint somebody might remember from the 1970s or 80s was about 2 percent THC by volume. The average in Colorado now is 18 percent, and they have products where they extract the marijuana into a concentrate which you can then vape, or do something called “dabbing.” It can be up to 90 percent THC concentration. It’s much more potent, and people are consuming it in very different ways. We talked about edibles, they’re drinking it, they’re vaping it, which is like e-cigarettes… it’s a whole different ballgame today than it was in the past.
MARGERY: So you don’t have to smoke the entire joint like you used to have to do back in the 70s. Here’s the philosophical question: People in Massachusetts voted overwhelmingly to decriminalize marijuana. They voted overwhelmingly to allow medical marijuana...everybody in law enforcement said it was the worst thing, it was a disaster...why should the legislature not prepare for this with some legislation that could anticipate another overwhelming vote and get ahead of the ballot question?
LEWIS: That’s why Senate President Stan Rosenberg created this special committee last year, anticipating that this is going to be a growing issue. At that point we didn’t know if it would be on the ballot, now we know it’s very likely to be on the ballot in November, because they have gathered enough signatures. We’re trying to get ready, even before the trip to Colorado, we had been doing a lot of research, I had already talked to dozens of stakeholders, healthcare providers, law enforcement regulators… it is possible that if this is on the ballot, and if it were to pass, the legislature could take action. In Colorado, they had 12 marijuana bills last session, Washington is the same thing. Even once this is on the ballot, there are many things on the ballot question that this is silent on. What kind of marketing and advertising restrictions would there be? Would there be limitations on certain products? To what extent would we allow home growing? There’s a lot of questions that the legislature or regulators would have to address, and that’s what we want to be ready to deal with.
State Senator Jason Lewis chairs the Senate Special Committee on Marijuana. To hear more of his interview with BPR, click on the audio link above.
