The U.S. House is voting today on whether to authorize the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump. Rep. Jim McGovern of Worcester, chair of the House Rules Committee, has played a pivotal role in setting forth the procedures for that vote. WGBH Morning Edition Host Joe Mathieu spoke with McGovern about the process and what we might expect next. The transcript below has been edited for clarity.
Joe Mathieu: I suspect you've not had a lot of sleep after the day you guys had yesterday debating this and writing the rules. The biggest complaint from Republicans has been about the closed door nature of the deposition so far. So I assume that all Republicans will vote in favor of today's resolution that calls for public hearings.
Rep. Jim McGovern: Well, I think you're probably right on that.
Mathieu: No one expects that to happen.
McGovern: No. But look, we don't have a special prosecutor looking into this case, presenting material and evidence to Congress. I mean, we had a special prosecutor in the Clinton impeachment. Ken Starr presented evidence to Congress, then the Judiciary Committee acted on it. This is different. This Justice Department is not interested in investigating the president's behavior with regard to Ukraine. So it is left up to the Intelligence Committee. They've kind of acted as the special prosecutor. And even Republicans like Trey Gowdy, who led the Benghazi investigation, admitted that the procedure that we are following here — that Adam Schiff is following — is appropriate. We're finishing up the evidence gathering phase, and we're now going into having the Intelligence Committee and others present evidence to the Judiciary Committee and to the American public. This rules resolution that I reported last night that we'll debate in the floor basically provides a road map as to how we're going to do that so the public will know everything.
Mathieu: Can you give us a sense of the timeline on this? I'm assuming this will pass even with Democrats alone today; no one really expects Republicans to vote for it. But when might public hearings begin, Congressman?
McGovern: Well, I would assume that it would begin pretty soon, within the next week or two. As far as today goes, the House comes in to session at 9:00 and this is the first item of business up for debate. So I expect a vote around 10:15 or 10:30.
Mathieu: Republicans are, in fact, complaining about your resolution, including the ranking member of your committee. Congressman Tom Cole of Oklahoma says the process will not be fair because Democrats will have the authority to reject Republican subpoenas and limit Republicans' ability to call witnesses. Is that fair?
McGovern: Well, we are following the same rules that we followed under the Nixon impeachment and under the Clinton impeachment. And basically, the minority can request subpoenas or can request witnesses in consultation with the chair of the committee — that's been the past process. You know, those will be either accepted or denied. I think what we want to avoid is a situation based on the Republicans' behavior up to this point with regard to this investigation, where it becomes a circus. Where they're requesting witnesses to investigate Hillary Clinton's e-mails, or requesting witnesses to investigate Adam Schiff, or whatever, to try to detract from the focus of what we're dealing with right now.
This is a big deal. And I reminded people on the Rules Committee last night, the reason why we're here is because of Donald Trump's behavior. He reached out to a foreign leader and asked that foreign leader to manufacture dirt on a potential political opponent, and basically withheld military aid until he got the answer he wanted. That is by any measure inappropriate, wrong, and quite frankly it rises to the level of an impeachable offense. So we're here because of Donald Trump, and the vote the people are going to be asked to cast today is not about whether you like Donald Trump or you don't. We have to respect the Constitution, we have to respect the institution of Congress and we have to respect the people of this country. That is what is going to be voted on today.
Mathieu: Congressman, we've seen a lot of antics around this recently. In fact, even Republican leaders in Congress have tried to break into the SCIF — the secure area where some of these private depositions have been held — which break longstanding rules in the House. Do you believe the sergeant at arms should be called to remove or punish Republican lawmakers who tried to break into a secure hearing room?
McGovern: Well, I think what they're looking for is more attention. I will say this, when I go to the SCIF for a classified briefing, I not only have to turn over my telephone, I also have to turn over my Fitbit. I'm not allowed to walk in with any kind of electronic equipment. I mean, it is where we have the most secret of secret briefings. Storming into that room, tweeting, taking photographs and livestreaming is not only inappropriate, it could potentially threaten our national security. So that was just inappropriate.
But I'm going to say one thing about the Republicans on the Rules Committee last night. We don't we don't agree on very much of anything, but I'm going to give Tom Cole, my colleague from Oklahoma, some credit. We had a contentious debate, but it was civil. There were no theatrics, no crazy antics, no livestreaming and interrupting testimony. So while we had major disagreements, I will give the Republicans credit on the Rules Committee for respecting the institution. That's one of the things that I think we need to be concerned about as we move forward. Yeah, we're going to have these debates, but let's not blow up the institution as we move forward. We've been through situations like this in the past. We've gotten through it. We'll get through this again. But again, the reason why we're here is because of Donald Trump's behavior. And by any objective measure, he has acted in a way that is beyond the pale.
Mathieu: Congressman, what are your private conversations like with the ranking member Congressman Cole, or any Republicans on the panel in terms of their appreciation for the historic nature of this moment?
McGovern: I think everybody knows that this is a very important moment in our history. I think there are some Republicans, quite frankly, who are uneasy at being asked to circle the wagons around this White House at any cost, because as I said last night during the debate, twenty, fifty, one hundred years from now, people are going to look back at this moment, and they're going to look back on this erratic and totally inappropriate behavior of this president and ask, 'What did you do?' Did you stand up for the Constitution? Did you stand up for the country? Did you put the people of this country and doing what's right ahead of political party? I pleaded with my Republicans to vote their conscience on these matters.
During the McCarthy era, there was Republican senator from Maine, Margaret Chase Smith, who had the guts to stand up and and call him out on his horrific demagoguery, and others followed. We need some Margaret Chase Smiths in the Republican Party to do the same. This shouldn't be about politics. I find it hard to believe that anybody, if they were pressed and asked the question, 'Is it appropriate for the president of the United States to ask a foreign leader to interfere in our election?' I'm not sure I could get anybody publicly to say that's perfectly fine. Maybe there are a couple that would do that, but I think all of us, no matter what our politics are, know that that is inappropriate. And this president has behaved inappropriately time and time and time again.
Now, I don't know whether or not there will be articles of impeachment at the end of the day. I personally believe there should be, but we have a process in place now that will get all the evidence to the Judiciary Committee and then they will make that decision. But I didn't run for Congress to impeach a president. I came to fight for jobs and repair our roads and bridges, to fight for more money for medical research, a cleaner environment and ending hunger around the world. Those are my priorities. But when faced with what we're faced with, we have to do the right thing. And I'm proud of the resolution that I drafted that was reported to the Rules Committee. I'm going to lead the debate today on the House floor urging my colleagues to vote for it. I hope it gets a strong vote, but it's the right thing to do.
