What Is Owed?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:04] It's 3:00 on a weekday afternoon at the John Hancock Memorial in the Granary Burying Ground in Boston. The site is kind of like a who's who of the American Revolution. Their graves for important figures like Thomas Paine and Samuel Adams. Every year, millions of tourists pass through here to visit the grave of John Hancock. You know, John Hancock tour guides tout man's great contributions to the country. But what you might not know, buried beside that much celebrated founding fathers grave is a man he enslaved. His name was Frank. Like many founding families, the Hancock's claimed several people as property, and they made their money in commerce based on products produced by the enslaved. That fortune bankrolled much of Boston's pre-revolutionary activism. The tour guides here often referred to Frank as Hancock's servant. They say the two men must have been close because of how closely they were buried. Frank's contributions to the country had never been documented. Neither were the roles of countless other enslaved people, people who helped set Boston's trajectory to become a leader in health, education, and technology. They were rarely recorded. Instead, U.S. history is full of portraits of heroic white people. Mostly men. But it's not just the revolutionary history that feels most present to many residents.

Resident Complaint [00:01:48] Boston has a deep racial history, and there's a lot of trauma that so many of us still carry.

Resident Complaint [00:01:57] We like to talk about Boston as a seat for the abolitionist movement. We don't like to talk so much about the role that Boston played in helping to finance this boom in trade that was dehumanizing of black folks in this country.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:16] This duality has always existed throughout Boston's history. There's the facts and figures most Bostonians pride themselves on, like Boston being one of the first places in the U.S. to ban slavery. Then there's also the history black Bostonians have been trying to hold the city accountable for, like being part of the first colony to legalize slavery and much later, clinging to segregation around the end of the civil rights era. In 2022, the city of Boston made a commitment to address its legacy of oppression since the institution of slavery. And the tool Mayor Michelle Wu proclaimed is reparations.

Michelle Wu [00:02:56] Today, we're announcing a reparations task force to bring together experts and those with lived experience and deep community connections to help us begin the process. We're grateful to all those who refuse to give up the fight for justice, who have understood and continue to push, that there is no statute of limitations on addressing wrongs that we have the ability to make right.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:21] The idea of a city giving reparations to its residents is a relatively new one. Most of the time when we talk about reparations, it's in a national context that harkens back to the post-Civil War promise of 40 acres and a mule for those recently freed. So as Boston finds itself yet again on a journey to be one of the first in the country, we are on a parallel journey to unpack what reparations could look like when a city as old as the nation declares its time to address its legacy of black oppression. How might that work? I'm Soraya Wintersmith. This is what is owed.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:00] To understand how Boston ended up at this moment to consider reparations for its black residents. We have to go back to 2020. We were enduring the Covid 19 pandemic.

Newsclip [00:00:12] Today, I'm declaring a state of emergency in Massachusetts. We're asking people to, stay home if possible. Practice social distancing.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:20] Navigating a contentious presidential election.

Presidential Debate [00:00:23] Will you shut up? Are you in favor of law and order? I'm in favor of law. You are. You.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:29] And I'm watching it all isolated indefinitely in our homes.

Newsclip [00:00:34] We need to treat this and recognize that this is not a sprint. This is going to be a marathon.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:39] The rhythm of our lives had changed. And maybe for the first time in a long time, we were forced to face the idea of social responsibility in our daily choices. All at once. People were arguing about face masks and vaccines, debating which businesses and workers were essential, disputing the value of making choices for the benefit of society rather than the individual. Around these conversations, a difficult truth emerged when America has a cold. Black America has the flu, and the historic harms black people suffered compounded. The hardships many faced during the health crisis.

Newclip [00:01:18] From the moment the coronavirus outbreak began, health officials have preached that Covid 19 doesn't discriminate.

Newclip [00:01:24] African Americans are being hit disproportionately hard.

Newclip [00:01:27] And what we've seen is that Black Americans have the highest death rate from Covid 19, but new reports strongly suggest that race still matters.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:38] Black people contracted the virus and died at greater rates. They made up a sizable portion of essential workers who had to risk exposure while trying to survive. They were more likely to live further away from grocery stores and health care facilities. These realities dominated much of what we saw in the news until...

Video footage soundbite [00:01:58] Well, get up, get in the car, man. I will get up. Get in the car, I can't move. I've been waiting to hold. You don't get in the car. Come on, get up. Get home. All right, I can't. I can't breath.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:13] Millions of people saw footage of George Perry Floyd dying as a police officer knelt on his neck during an arrest.

Video footage soundbite [00:02:20] Mama, mama mama, mama.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:26] Oh. It was the only other story dominating headlines, and the restlessness of being at home, combined with heightened political energy, suddenly got people off their couches. How do we get out of this mess?

Street Protest [00:02:39] Revolution. Nothing less. How do we get out? Yes. Okay. No.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:48] Yes. And from this moment, some things started to give way.

Newclip [00:02:52] What is interesting about 2020 is that the pandemic shut everything down. So it forced people who would not otherwise be paying attention or wanting to pay attention, to have to look at something that has always been there and really be honest about their own complicity in the disenfranchisement of black people.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:15] That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor of africana studies at Wellesley College.

Kelly Carter Jackson [00:03:20] People had to really think hard about that for the first time. And I think for some people, thinking hard about reparations meant only thinking symbolically, like, okay, well, we're going to take down this flag or we're going to take down the statue. We're going to change the name of this street, right? That's the reparation. But in other places, you see that there was an effort to have meaningful, not just symbolic change, but like structural change.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:47] Jackson says the pandemic was a unique time in U.S. history where everyone seemed to be focused on the experiences of black people, and they were willing and able to do something about it. Ideas of defunding police turned into efforts to reshape city budgets and address needs in black communities. Companies and governments launched new efforts to recruit and include people of color, and there were even some people who tried giving out cash payments directly to black people.

Interview soundbite [00:04:17] No, don't send me back.

Interview soundbite [00:04:19] No. I'm good, I'm awesome. Like. But here are some here are places that you can donate to. But like, it's interesting and it's uncomfortable. But it's better than the alternative. So I'll take a person that cares all day long and even take misplaced care over apathy.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:43] That level of care wouldn't last forever. It couldn't. The pandemic had slowed the country down just enough to actually do something about systematic black oppression. But eventually things would change and the country's focus would shift elsewhere. It was this idea that led one Boston woman to turn the rare moment of action into a window of opportunity for reparations.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:05:08] When it comes to policymaking, timing matters.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:11] That's Tanisha Sullivan, president of the Boston branch of the NAACP. She, like many people around the country, was looking for a way to capture the spark during the pandemic and move her community towards greater systematic change. Even the mayor of Boston had recognized the pivotal moment.

Newsclip [00:05:29] What I'm announcing today is the beginning. It's not the end. There will be more announcements and more work that we have to do. But first, I want to declare racism to be a public health crisis in the city of Boston.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:44] Sullivan decided this was the moment to push the city of Boston to explore reparations.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:05:50] We might never get an opportunity like this again where not only the minds but the hearts of people are open, and this seemed like the right time to get it done.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:06:02] But in the U.S., reparations is generally considered an unpopular policy proposal unless you're black, according to the latest Pew Research Center survey. Three quarters of black Americans say descendants of those enslaved should be repaid in some way. But in the broader population, nearly 70% of adults say there should be no repayment. So even with public sentiment shifting towards greater equity for black people, Sullivan recognized that any push for reparations was going to need a political champion, someone who felt strongly enough about the issue to bring it to the halls of power, where structural change is made.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:06:41] In a perfect world, when everything is working the way that it should. The City Council really is the body of the people. Yes, we could go right to the mayor. That's one person with the power of the pen. Important tool to have in the in the tool belt. But when possible, I really do like to use the legislative process because again, it speaks to the people. It speaks to our neighborhoods. It's the closest legislative body we have.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:10] Enter. Julia Maria.

Julia Mejia [00:07:13] Everyone thought I was crazy because I decided to file a hearing order around reparations.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:21] A two term At-Large City Councilor, Mejia refers to herself as a disrupter of broken systems.

Julia Mejia [00:07:28] And I affectionately named myself the Little Chihuahua. I'm always barking about something.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:34] McKee is someone who, within her first two weeks in office, went viral for clapping back at an anonymous racist voicemail. In her view, racism is part of political life in the city.

Julia Mejia [00:07:46] Every single vote that I have taken has been political, and oftentimes the underlining, residue is racial and that tension is real. And I think that Boston politics is defined by that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:08:01] It didn't take much for Sullivan to convince Maria to front the reparations push.

Julia Mejia [00:08:06] And I think that from what I understood, it was a political risk to have that conversation, especially during an election year. A lot of my advisers didn't think that that was smart, but I, I never do things out of fear. I'm like, this is the conversation that the people want to have that I want to let's go for it. Right?

Tanisha Sullivan [00:08:26] Yes. She was immediately on board. Absolutely. If anything had to slow her down. And say, wait a minute. We need to get the right people at the table like, we can't do this is not something you do alone.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:08:38] Next, the two women sought out their team. They recruited decorated academics, international activists and local grassroots voices to put together a proposal. Sullivan says the group was intentional about its structure. They wanted to ensure a reparations mechanism that was both credible and independent. Eventually, the team drafted an ordinance to put before the city council. The proposal called for Boston to fund a two year, community led commission to do two major things examine Boston's culpability in the oppression of black people since the time of slavery, and recommend reparations proposals. After careful study of the concept, their findings would go to the City Council and the Mayor's Office for adoption. Mejia made the proposal public in February of 2022.

Public Hearing Soundbite [00:09:28] For almost 400 years, the history of black Boston has been marked by segregation and injustice. We have witnessed segregation and injustice. But let's be clear the solution to injustice is justice. And the solution to segregation. Is community coming together as one to fight towards a common goal. That is why we are filing this ordinance to create a commission to study and develop reparations.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:09:52] Sullivan says it all seemed pretty straightforward.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:09:54] We did so many other things. We did policing reform during this same time period. We did exam school admissions, reform. I mean, those arguably like and I was deeply involved in both of those. I didn't think those would get done. I thought this one would have been done.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:10:11] But the proposal was controversial. Meyer says it was the most difficult piece of legislation she's ever carried. She got criticism from all corners beyond community criticism. There was an arguably bigger problem me, as council colleagues, were skeptical. For one thing, the proposal would have paid commission members for their time like special city employees.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:10:36] This came out of community.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:10:37] Again, Tanisha Sullivan.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:10:39] Folks were like, if we're going to have a a task force or a commission that's focused on reparations for the descendants of formerly enslaved black people in this country, is it appropriate to ask people to give their time for free on such a task force? Like, is that a contradiction?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:11:00] Under the proposal, 15 commission members would be paid $100 an hour, up to $50,000 a year for their time. Sullivan says councilors push back on that.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:11:12] And that was a sticking point for a minute because it was values based, right? In terms of like why the compensation was in there. So we had to work through that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:11:22] For another thing. Sullivan and her crew tried to ensure the commission would have the necessary expertise by designating certain spots for key organizations. She says, along with hefty reputations, each group brought seasoned policymakers.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:11:37] And so the thinking was to have, you know, with these organizations, like when when the NAACP has a seat on a commission or board or a task force at whatever levels local, state, federal. It's not just about the person sitting in the seat. Like, that is the legacy of the organization. And and we don't play with that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:12:01] And even though the council and Boston Mayor Michelle Wu pushed back. Sullivan argues that that sort of expertise has to be central to a reparations panel.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:12:10] And when it comes to appointments on task forces and commissions, sometimes not always, but sometimes appointments can be politically driven and not expertise driven. And for us, this commission now task force was so very important that we were trying to account for political appointments that would not allow the work to move forward.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:12:38] And so the two sides hashed out their differences.

Julia Mejia [00:12:41] I don't think that the administration really wanted this to happen.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:12:45] Councilor Mejia says there was a contentious back and forth with the mayor's team. It was a process that, when added to the council concerns, delayed the proposal from coming to the council floor for nearly a year. The administration didn't air its issues publicly, so it all went on behind closed doors. We don't know for sure what happened in those meetings. We reached out to Mayor Wu for her side of things, and she didn't get back to us in time for this episode.

Julia Mejia [00:13:14] And I remember having a moments where there was this notion that, you know, that we had to work on something that the mayor would not veto. And I remember saying, let her veto it, and that would be up to her.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:13:35] But this is politics. So by the end of 2022, they arrived at a sort of compromise, one that converted the proposed Reparations Commission into a less independent task force with no designated seats and the mayor free to select members and set their pay. And even with those concessions, Minghella said she didn't know whether the measure would pass. The mayor was on board with the plan, but the city council, the voting body that needed to approve it first, was tight lipped. So on December 14th, 2022, Julian Mahia walked into the Council chambers at Boston City Hall, not knowing whether she had enough votes to approve the proposal, now known as docket number 0239.

Public Hearing Soundbite [00:14:23] Mr. clerk, can you do a roll call vote somehow?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:14:27] All 13 councilors voted yes.

Public Hearing Soundbite [00:14:29] Duck number 0239 has received a unanimous vote.

Julia Mejia [00:14:40] And I don't know what led them to do that. It wasn't because I asked them to. I think that either 1 or 2 things were at play either. They serve people who are of color, who are in that chamber, and they didn't want to look like they were not woke. Or they know that this is a process and a way to repair the harm, and they didn't want to get in the way of that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:15:06] Both counselor Julia Mejia and Boston Branch and NAACP president Tanisha Sullivan say the process of getting a reparations task force was harder than it needed to be. In true Boston politics fashion, neither woman will indict anyone over it. They only blame broad concepts like political optics and fear.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:15:29] The advancement of of healing and repair. Specifically as it relates to slavery is a policy area that scares a lot of folks. And what I've learned in policymaking is that. When fear steps in, when there are issues that that people are scared to kind of touch. One of the responses is to really try to control.

Julia Mejia [00:16:10] And so I think that we would have passed this sooner if people did not play politics.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:16:19] Control structure. Control outcomes. Control timing. And so I do think one of the biggest foes that we had in this process was fear.

Julia Mejia [00:16:32] But I am happy with the outcome because it was never about me. Right. So that's what happens in politics. You take those hits. And the outcome of that is that Boston, one of the most racist cities in the country, is going to be able to have a mechanism to study the harm and hopefully repair it.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:16:56] But Boston's new reparations Task Force stumbled out of the gate after Mayor Wu announced her picks for the panel in February 2023. They didn't actually meet until May. The slow start, combined with some surprising headlines, raised doubts. Was the city of Boston actually going to take reparations seriously?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:00] So. The making of Boston's Reparations Task Force was a two year process. It took political access and tactical strategy and compromise, and that seems like a whole ordeal.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:00:13] But getting an ordinance through city council, getting it signed by the mayor is just like, that's the beginning.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:19] Tanisha Sullivan again.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:00:20] You know, it's the end of one part of the process, but it's really the beginning of the work. And so my eyes have always been set on the moment, like when I will be full of joy and like, like, yes, this is meaningful. Is when I see what the actual plan looks like for this healing and repair. And so I'm not there yet.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:46] You're not satisfied until the task force gets through its work of make recommendations.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:00:51] Yes, it needs to. Otherwise, it's... It doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:57] Sullivan had already done the hard work of creating a task force. But the real work getting research and recommendations done, that was out of her hands. It was the city's job now, and there wasn't anything she could do about it. And it seemed like the sense of urgency that she had hoped would power the work ahead was fading.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:01:18] We should have had the conversation in Boston in earnest long before 2020. I think 2020 presented us with what we thought was the right timing to be able to move this type of policy agenda item quickly, because things are not moving the way that they should be moving.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:44] Boston's Reparations Task Force was supposed to complete their research and submit reparations recommendations by the summer of 2024, but deadlines began to slip. The formal hiring of researchers to document the history of slavery through a city RFP or request for proposals didn't get started until September, more than six months after the mayor announced the task force line up. Then, the city didn't select its research teams until almost a full year after the task force launched.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:02:18] That RFP should have been out before the summer.

Robinson [00:02:21] So whomever is behind the planning process, the planning is failing.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:24] That's Aziza Robinson-Goodnight and Amina Bossman. Robinson Goodnight is one of the grassroots voices who helped make the task force legislation. And Boston is a community member who spoke up at one of the panel's two in-person community meetings in 2023. The problems these women pointed out those were exactly the kind of problems Sullivan and Mejia had been trying to avoid. On top of its slow pace of work, the task force's coordinator was fired for disruptive behavior in City Hall. Then, at one of the panel's in-person meetings, it was clear that task force was under-resourced. People complained the meeting wasn't properly advertised. There was no live stream for those who couldn't make it in person, and those who did show up found there weren't any microphones for public comment.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:03:15] Boston is not taking it seriously.

Public Complain [00:03:17] We don't even know when these meetings are. You can't tell me you're taking it seriously. If you do that to folks.

Robinson [00:03:23] Their information is not getting out to the community unless you know someone. This is kind of like a who, you know, kind of situation to attend a meeting. So I don't think the task force is making a concerted effort to make sure that they have community input.

Public Complain [00:03:36] I was disappointed with the fact that they didn't even have microphones, so that they can listen to the people that were so dismissive of community. And in that meeting, I saw the lack of investments that we are making in this process. When there is a will, there is a way, and when there's no interest, you're going to find every way to not make things happen. And they're dragging their feet.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:03] And then the two academics on the task force resigned.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:04:07] Those are alarm bells.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:09] Sullivan says that was a huge problem, since the case for reparations policy needs a solid historical foundation.

Tanisha Sullivan [00:04:17] That is the basis for your evidence. And in any of these conversations and debates, I believe that it is important to have everyday people sitting around the table. I believe it's important to have a diverse perspective sitting around the table, but it is also critically important to have those who understand history, historical context. Facts undisputed. Verifiable facts who can help to pull all of that together, to position the work to be successful, because we cannot afford for this thing to fall apart. It cannot be unsuccessful.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:03] And Boston residents started sounding their own alarms, too. At a community meeting with microphones. One man named Curtis Rollins suddenly spoke up.

Curtis Rollins [00:05:12] This thing doesn't have time. Y'all have to expedite it. You don't have to rush it, but you have to work more diligently because this has been the whole point. We're always put at the back burner. We have to wait to get what is ours. Everybody else can get theirs. We have to wait to get what's ours. Either that or saddled with somebody else, and we end up not getting ours while they get theirs. That time has passed, it needs to pass and y'all have the opportunity to show that it has passed. Thank you.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:06:06] Curtis, his words tug on a long and tangled and emotional thread. It's a huge moment when any government body declares a time to acknowledge and remedy its past wrongs. For black people who have waited centuries. It's momentous. And this tension we're seeing in Boston is the same tension we're seeing all across the country.

Newsclip [00:06:29] The town of Evanston made history in 2021, when it became the first municipality...

Newsclip [00:06:32] California's first of its kind task force on reparations for black Americans has...

Newsclip [00:06:38] The City Council of Asheville, North Carolina, unanimously voted to provide reparations to black residents...

Saraya Wintersmith [00:06:43] In places like the state of New York and cities like San Francisco and Detroit, commissions are forming. Researchers are studying, and people are asking, what is the debt to black people in those communities? What historic points should we begin to examine, and how do we measure and assess harm to black people? Our municipal and state governments truly prepared to acknowledge their culpability. And what about the federal government? Is there really a feasible way to repay black people? All black people. As Boston goes on a journey to answer questions like these for itself, we are exploring to looking locally and nationally at this moment in history when reparations finally seem possible. Searching for an answer to the ultimate question when it comes to America's so-called original sin and all it has entailed. What is owed?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:46] What Is owed is a production of GBH news. This episode was produced and written by our senior producer Jerome Campbell, along with me, Soraya Winterson. Our editorial assistant is Mara Millard's. Editing by Paul Singer. Production oversight by Lee Hill. Mixing and sound design by David Goodman and Gary Mott. Theme song and original music by Maleek Williams. We love hearing from our listeners. Leave us a voicemail at 617-958-6061. GBH.