DETOURS

Adam Monahan:

Are you a dog person, or a cat person, or any animal person?

Marsha Bemko:

Let me put it this way, I used to own cats. I used to own dogs, and I like them both. But they can't live here.

Adam Monahan:

My boss at GBH's Antiques Roadshow, Marsha Bemko.

Marsha Bemko:

I don't want the work of a pet. Like if you have a dog, you need to take it out for a walk. If you have a cat, you need to clean its litter. I don't want to do those things. And you know what other kind of animal I had that doesn't live in my house anymore? Children.

Adam Monahan:

Sorry, Marsh. But today's story has both dogs and children. It all started a couple years ago at our event in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I was walking by the pottery table with my camera crew when our longtime appraiser, David Lackey, flagged me down.

David Lackey walked up to me and he said, "You've got to get over here and hear this person's story." And it was a jaw-dropper.

Marsha Bemko:

Are you going to talk about the dog plate?

Adam Monahan:

The dog plate.

David Lackey:

Okay. What is this plate? Tell me about it.

Linda:

Okay, my dog received the Dog Of The Year award in 1952.

Marsha Bemko:

Yes, I remember this story. The dog plate with the kidnapped baby.

Adam Monahan:

The dog plate with the kidnapped baby.

Linda:

She said, "Skippy, go get Linda." He jumped the fence, bit the man. And the man threw him off.

Marsha Bemko:

You bring up stories, who could ever forget it?

Adam Monahan:

It's an incredible story. Man grabs baby, dog bites man, dog is named Dog of the Year. But that's not the only reason this is a famous appraisal around here.

See, a lot of our most popular appraisals are high-value items; watches, paintings, Marilyn Monroe's dress. But we also have the cult classics, hidden treasures that aren't worth a lot of money.

Marsha Bemko:

And what else I remember is, that plate was worth like 10 bucks.

Adam Monahan:

We put on screen a dollar.

Marsha Bemko:

Oh, it was a dollar. I added a zero.

David Lackey:

It is absolutely worthless object if it were sold to someone who didn't know the story. It's chipped, it's cracked, it's stained.

Adam Monahan:

Absolutely worthless, David says. But not if you ask our fans on TikTok. One commenter on this appraisal writes, "I will buy it for 10K." Another says, "As a non-professional appraiser, but doggy enthusiast, it is my professional opinion that this is worth 1 million-gillion-billion dollars." So which is it?

Today, dog experts and expert appraisers duke it out to see how much the plate and its story are really worth. I'm Adam Monahan, a producer with GBH's Antiques Roadshow, and this is Detours. Today, Skippy the Hero Dog.

Skippy's Award came from a long ago organization that I'm guessing even the avid dog lovers. Among you have never heard of. The National Dog Welfare Guild was started in the late-nineteen-twenties, with the mission of doing good work for dog-kind, like advocating for laws to protect dogs, encouraging people to adopt dogs, and sponsoring an annual event called National Dog Week.

As part of the event, the guild would select a single four-legged companion deserving of special commendation, the Dog of the Year. The event was started by Captain Will Judy, World War I vet, lawyer, and prolific publisher of dog-related materials, including Dog World Magazine.

In one of as many books, Judy wrote, "If you are in danger, your dog needs only to hear your cry of distress, to rush to your aid." Sounds like a pretty good description of Skippy, the Belgian Shepherd. His moment of heroism came on December 7th, 1952 when our guest, Linda, was just two years old.

Linda:

And my mom had put me outside to play in the yard, and she came out to shake her mop and I screamed. And she said there was a man carrying me down the street under his arm, like a football sort of. And she said, "Skippy, go get Linda."

And he jumped the fence, and bit the guy, and the guy threw me on the lawn of a house he was passing by. And the dog chased the man, and he didn't come back until the police arrived.

Adam Monahan:

Right away, Linda and Skippy's story got a write-up in the local newspaper.

"A Belgian Shepherd dog played his role to perfection today, when he attacked and routed a man who police believed was attempting to molest a two-year-old Pensalken child near her home at 9:30 AM."

Naturally, the article made the rounds.

Linda:

I took it to so many show-and-tells, it's in shreds.

Adam Monahan:

And it caught the attention of the National Dog Welfare Guild, who named Skippy the Dog of the Year.

Linda:

They contacted my mother and father, and asked them to come to the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City for this Dog of the Year show. And apparently they gave the dog a steak dinner on a platter underneath the table.

Adam Monahan:

For his heroism, Skippy was awarded a ceramic plate with his portrait, the year 1952, and the words R.P Lester Award.

Police never caught the would-be kidnapper, but Linda did get a mysterious tip.

Linda:

Years later, a friend of mine asked me to go to a psychic with her. So I went to the psychic. And my husband had passed away, I was eight-and-a-half months pregnant. And my husband died in an accident. And so I brought that up to the psychic. And then I said, "Oh, and when I was two years old, I was an attempted kidnap victim."

And they said, "Oh, that was a friend of your father's, and his name was Daryl."

Adam Monahan:

What?

Linda:

But my mom and dad had already passed away, so I couldn't ask anybody.

Adam Monahan:

Wow. So they never did catch this guy, I assume.

Linda:

No, apparently not. No.

Adam Monahan:

Wow. And so Linda, are you a dog person to this day?

Linda:

Yes, yes. My mother always owned shepherds, and I have two little dogs, but no big dogs anymore. But, yes. And the plate is hung in a prominent place in my house, and I'm very proud of it. So, kind like one of those fun facts to know and keep to yourself.

Adam Monahan:

Until June, 2022, that is. 70 years after that fateful day when Skippy saved Linda. We were at our event in Santa Fe, New Mexico, that morning. And after waiting in line for a few hours, Linda finally made it to the pottery table and met our appraiser, David Lackey.

David Lackey:

I'm owner of David Lackey Antiques and Jewelry. And for the Antiques Roadshow, I appraise mostly pottery and porcelain.

Adam Monahan:

We were in Santa Fe, New Mexico a couple of years ago. And I'm doing my thing, I kind of just roam around with my buddy, Greg the cameraman, and my audio guy, Johnny O. And we look for interesting things.

And this one I very much remember you going, "Hey, you might want to hear this story. It's pretty wild." And I went, I was like, all right, I'll come on over to your table.

David Lackey:

And I'm sorry to correct you. But I came up to you, I remember, and I said, "Adam, I have something I think you'd like to film."

And you said, "How much is it worth?"

And I said, "A dollar."

And you said, "No."

And I said, "No, you are going to film this."

Adam Monahan:

I'm not going to lie, that sounds a lot like me. If you tell me something's worth a dollar, I'm not coming to film you.

But looking at the types of things you do do for our show, I don't even know what we think about this as terms of a collectible, versus a pottery and porcelain thing, versus ... How do we value a plate, or put it up on screen like a dollar? What are you going through when you have to tell the woman that?

David Lackey:

I try to be honest. And I see a lot of stuff that's kind of valuable, but sometimes it's just not very interesting, even it's worth money. But I loved this woman and I loved this story. And at some point, the story and the history is much more interesting to me than the value.

Adam Monahan:

So that's David's take, the story is good, and definitely TV-worthy, but the plate itself is still worth squat. But there are other appraisers at other tables who politely disagree. Appraisers like Laura, a frequent guest on the podcast,.

Laura Woolley:

My name's Laura Woolley, and I'm an appraiser on the Collectibles table.

Adam Monahan:

All right, The Collectibles Table, and that's why I'm contacting you. Because we had a plate that went to Pottery and Porcelain, because it is a plate. But it is also more than a plate. Do you know which appraisal I'm talking about?

Laura Woolley:

I know exactly what appraisal you're talking about. And if you can hear my dog drinking water in the background, I'm sorry, but it plays into what I'm about to say. I am a total crazy, crazy dog lady. And anyone who knows me knows that I love dogs so much. I love dogs.

Adam Monahan:

Dogs and dog art.

Laura Woolley:

I was once told that we needed to pump the brakes on some of the dog artwork I have in my house. Because I tend to, we all are in this business in the auction world, and we see things. So you pick things up that strike your fancy, as you look at auctions all the time. I tend to gravitate towards dog-related things.

Adam Monahan:

Laura has dog sculptures, professional paintings and illustration art, cast iron dog banks, vintage postcards and stamps featuring dogs. So when Laura saw the appraisal on TV, yeah, our appraisers watch the show too, she was pumped.

Laura Woolley:

I saw it for the first time, had not heard anything about this. And I see this extraordinary story, which is one more example of why dogs are the best. And I hear a dollar and I was like, that's such an insult. That's so mean. I'd pay her 50 for it right now.

Adam Monahan:

And Laura thinks she's not the only one.

Laura Woolley:

One of our other appraisers who now works for the American Kennel Club, he would do an annual dog sale, and it was a whole sale of nothing but paintings of dogs. So there is a certain collecting category, and I think a lot of people would be attracted to this. Even though it's a sadly glued-together, beaten down thing as an object. But you put that in a little shadow box on a wall with a little spotlight on it, and everyone's going to say, what's this?

Adam Monahan:

The phrase, one appraiser's trash is another appraiser's treasure, comes to mind.

Laura Woolley:

I remember the first show I ever did, that I met David Lackey. I came to the bar afterwards and he said, "What did you see today?"

Adam Monahan:

Remember, David is our pottery in porcelain appraiser, a man who appreciates fine craftsmanship.

Laura Woolley:

And I told him it was those crystals from a chandelier that Marilyn Monroe had put on a heart-shaped piece of wire and gave to her friend. And I put thousands of dollars on them. And to him, those are trash. They're leftover crystals that fell off of a chandelier. So he's always giving me ribbing for the fact that what I do isn't really worth anything.

Adam Monahan:

So you are in a thrift store, you have the article right next to the plate, describes that whole scene. What are you paying for that plate?

Laura Woolley:

I'd pay a couple hundred bucks for it, at least. Just for the lark of the fact that it's such a fun and cool thing. And I didn't even know Skippy, but I think Skippy deserves a place somewhere of honor.

Adam Monahan:

A place of honor, like a museum perhaps. After the break, we go to the Museum of the Dog, and we'll find out if Skippy is really as remarkably heroic as he seems.

There's been another question nagging me with this item, besides the money question. Is Skippy an outlier, or do dogs regularly save babies? I called up an expert to find out.

Caitlin Crittenden:

My name is Caitlin Crittenden. I own Life Dog Training, I'm a dog trainer.

Adam Monahan:

Okay, so the guest brought this plate in, told the story. She was grabbed from her lawn, the dog goes in pursuit and chases the person for a long time until the police came to their house. I didn't know if this is normal behavior.

Caitlin Crittenden:

It's definitely not an everyday occurrence, but there are versions of this and levels of this that I do see. There's some of the traits, like the protectiveness trait, for instance. You have some dogs that experience a threat, and maybe it's a threat to them, or it's a threat to something they care about like this child.

And this mode sort of kicks in that tells the dog, okay, I'm going to attack and try to rescue this person in this case, and take action. You might have other dogs that, they would be in this same situation and they would say, oh, it's fine, good and dandy. Or another dog that goes, oh, I'm going to get out of here.

Adam Monahan:

The fact that she was two years old, does that factor into it at all? So young?

Caitlin Crittenden:

Absolutely. I see a lot of dogs who treat kids like other dogs. So personally, back when my daughter, who's now six, was a baby, I had a border collie. And every night when she would wake up and cry to eat, he was always the first one at the door. And would glare at me these looks of, she needs something, we need to take care of this.

And then I would have to basically make him leave the room afterwards with me, because he felt the need to ensure she was okay.

Adam Monahan:

Wow, that's incredible. And you said something about the breed and the dog here. Skippy was a Belgian shepherd. I don't know anything about that breed.

Caitlin Crittenden:

When you say protective, I'm like, yeah, that's a breed that's going to do that. They were bred to be the dogs that, when bombs are going off, or police have things going down, this is the dog that can handle it. This is the dog that will push in and address the situation, instead of retreat when the pressure comes on.

Which are also reasons why they can be pretty intense for the average family, who doesn't maybe know how to train and steer that.

Adam Monahan:

And so Caitlin, you're at a thrift shop, you see the Dog of the Year plate. It's got the article next to it, it's marked $5. Are you paying for that, or are you just going to pass?

Caitlin Crittenden:

$5, yes, I'm going to buy it. $10, I'm going to buy it. $15, I'm going to buy it. $20, I'm going to buy it.

Adam Monahan:

All right, $50. This plate is $50. Are you buying it?

Caitlin Crittenden:

$50? Probably not, if I'm going to be honest. Probably not.

Adam Monahan:

So we've gotten prizes from Laura, our dog-crazy appraiser, David, the pottery aficionado, and Caitlin, the dog trainer. But in our interview, Laura mentioned another one of our appraisers who used to run an auction all about dog art, the ultimate expert. So I gave him a call.

All right, can you give your name and affiliation?

Alan Fausel:

Alan Fausel, AKC Museum of the Dog.

Adam Monahan:

That's American Kennel Club, for those cat people out there. Alan started in the museum world, then moved to working in auction houses before returning to his roots, landing at the Museum of the Dog in New York City.

Alan Fausel:

My colleague said I went from Gamekeeper, to poacher, back to Gamekeeper.

Adam Monahan:

In the auction world, he did all kinds of paintings. Old masters, 19th century American, European, et cetera, et cetera.

Alan Fausel:

But one of the specialties I developed was dog paintings.

Adam Monahan:

Dog people have a lot of money?

Alan Fausel:

Certain ones do, it's interesting. It divides out to three different categories. You have the purebred people, and I tell people that they'll spend like five to $10,000 as their limit. But the money comes out for paintings for the hunting hounds, the foxhounds, and the shooting sports.

Adam Monahan:

What is at the Museum of the Dog? If somebody comes off the street and goes in there, what are you going to see?

Alan Fausel:

Well, it's a collection of 1700 objects; of paintings, drawings, prints, sculptures, ceramics. And what we'd like to call doggiana. Dog collars, dog carts, dog sled. And so it's a variety of things that really celebrates our mission, which is really the purebred dog breeds.

Adam Monahan:

Do you have a dog?

Alan Fausel:

I have two Spaniels, a Welsh Springer spaniel and an English Cocker spaniel.

Adam Monahan:

Do you think they'd rescue you if you were in danger?

Alan Fausel:

Oh God, no. Spaniels are the most scatter-brained dogs in the world. They don't take well to directions.

Adam Monahan:

I can imagine people want their stuff in the Museum of the Dog. Do you get people trying to donate, and you just can't take every bit of bric-a-brac?

Alan Fausel:

Yeah, that's a major concern these days, especially as the population ages. Sometimes you have a son or a daughter who continues on in the dog breeding, but sometimes they don't. And they don't want these, and they want it to go to a good home. But I just can't take everything that's out there.

Adam Monahan:

Unfortunately, Alan told me this plate wouldn't make the cut. But I was still curious what he thought it might be worth. Remember, our appraiser David valued it at just $1.

So I asked Alan, if this showed up on your roadshow table, what dollar value would you put on the screen?

Alan Fausel:

I wouldn't expect it to make a huge amount of money. But somebody might spend a couple hundred dollars for it, 200, $300 just because it's a great story.

Adam Monahan:

So there you have it. David the appraiser says it's worth a dollar, Caitlin the dog trainer says 20 to 50. Laura and Alan give it a couple hundred. There was just one more person I had to ask, Marsha.

Marsha Bemko:

Truth be told, I wouldn't buy that plate. Not even for a dollar. I don't want it cluttering up my house. Skippy's meaningless to me. I love the story. So maybe it's a conversation piece, but no.

Adam Monahan:

Yeah, and that's the point. I think that in terms of a show like ours, where we deal with items that were 10,000, 20,000, 1,500, those are the real numbers that we care about. This one, I didn't care at all. I only cared that this woman was saved from a kidnapping when she was a baby.

And so the idea that we put a dollar up there, I'm like, yeah, a dollar whatever, it doesn't mean anything. The only thing that means something in this is the story, and that one's priceless.

Marsha Bemko:

The headline, "Saved by a Dog" can't be beat. It's precious.

Adam Monahan:

Detours Is a production of GBH in Boston, and distributed by PRX. This episode was written and produced by Galen Beebe, edited and mixed by Ian Coss. Our assistant producer is Sarah Horatius. Jocelyn Gonzalez is the director of PRX Productions. Devin Maverick Robbins is the managing producer of podcasts for GBH.

Marsha Bemko is the executive producer of Detours. I'm your host and co-executive producer, Adam Monahan. Our theme music is Once in a Century Storm By Will Daly, from the album National Throat.

Thank you all for listening, have a good one.