Jeremy Siegel is co-host of Morning Edition at GBH News. Feedback? Questions? Story ideas? Reach out to Jeremy at jeremy_siegel@wgbh.org.
November 27, 2023
Jeremy Siegel: This is GBH's Morning Edition. It is a big week for gun laws in Massachusetts. Nearly 60 bills related to firearms are set to be considered in a public hearing that's likely to draw a big crowd and a heated debate. This comes after the State House already passed a wide-ranging bill that tightens gun restrictions, cracking down on ghost guns and where guns can be carried, and as the state Senate is forming its own package. For the latest on all of this, I'm joined by GBH's state politics reporter Katie Lannan. Good morning, Katie.
Katie Lannan: Hey, good morning.
Siegel: So a hearing is usually one of the first steps that comes in the legislative process. But this hearing, where 56 bills in total are being considered in the Senate, is coming after the House has already passed a full package of gun law reforms on their own. Why is this hearing happening now, after the House has already passed this stuff?
Lannan: I think what we're really seeing here is the remnants of a procedural dispute between the House and Senate. The House had really started looking into gun law reforms last year after we saw the United States Supreme Court decision that forced a lot of states to rethink their gun laws. The House embarked on a listening tour to hear from different stakeholders and unveiled its own bill in the summer. And House Speaker Ron Mariano had originally said he wanted to pass that bill last summer, July of 2023, but that ran into a number of obstacles, including opposition from different groups, Second Amendment advocates among them. It ran into some concerns from House lawmakers themselves, and it sparked a fight with the Senate over what committee ultimately should have a hearing on the bills. The Senate wanted them to go to the Judiciary Committee, where Chairman Mike Day had been leading the House's efforts, while the Senate wanted the Public Safety Committee to review the gun bills. And that's what we're seeing tomorrow, or rather Tuesday. I don't know my days. That is tomorrow.
Siegel: It is tomorrow. We're coming out of a holiday.
Lannan: It's post-holiday. Whatever day it is, that's happening. The Public Safety Committee is finally holding its hearing. The House had held a hearing on its bill, but it was House members only. Senators weren't involved in that. So this is really a time that the full legislature will now have a chance to hear from people on all sides of gun regulation issues.
Siegel: And what are some of the specific bills that will be heard in this committee hearing?
Lannan: So, like you said, there's 56. There's a lot of them. And that includes a bill backed by Attorney General Andrea Campbell that would strengthen the current state law prohibiting silencers. And there's all sorts of things, there's some that look to relax existing gun rules, including a proposed prohibition on county or town level gun laws, so that it could only be set at the state level. And there is, you know, going the other way, there's bills that want to take a closer look at gun violence prevention and funding efforts in the state. There's bills that would make it legal for the state attorney general and Massachusetts residents to sue the firearm industry if they feel they were caused harm. So lots of different things on the docket.
Siegel: You mentioned that House and Senate lawmakers had been at odds over what committee this would all be heard in. Have they been at odds at all over the content of gun reform legislation? Is there anything super different in what the Senate's considering as opposed to what the House has already passed?
Lannan: Yeah. So we haven't seen a draft full bill from the Senate yet. We do know that the Senate wants to crack down on ghost guns, those kind of homemade firearms, often 3D printed or, you know, assembled from parts bought online. And that's something that's a major focus of the House bill. We don't know specifically how the Senate might pursue that. But there also, you know, we've heard the Senate president talk about this being a pared down version of the House bill, so they might focus more explicitly on ghost guns and leave the many other things in the House bill aside for another time. We have heard Senator Cindy Creem, who's the Senate's point person on this issue, talk about applying a public health lens toward reducing gun violence and continuing to strengthen data collection efforts, which is something that's also in the House bill.
Siegel: So when we did see the House bill passed, when we spoke after that was passed, I remember you telling me about some fierce pushback that gun owners and law enforcement had with some of that. I imagine the Senate bills will also face some pushback here. What are they opposed to?
Lannan: Yeah, I mean, so I think the advantage of going second is you've heard the criticisms beforehand, right? If you go first with the bill, you get to kind of set the narrative. But the Senate will have an opportunity to respond to things. Like, we saw law enforcement officers opposed to some of the limits the House originally a proposed on where guns could be carried. Because the prohibition originally in the House bill on bringing guns into schools, government buildings, [and] polling places would have also applied to law enforcement officers. And the House tried to carve out on-duty or off-duty law enforcement officers who are carrying their department-provided weapon with them. And that was something that they did late in the process. That was an amendment on the House floor. The Senate could fold that in early, look at maybe responding to those concerns from the outset to try and build some goodwill. Of course, the gun owners and Second Amendment advocates have really been strongly opposed to this throughout the whole process. The House bill in particular. I don't know that there's much to get some of those people who are more strongly and vociferously opposed on board at this point in the game.
Siegel: So this comes after the Supreme Court changed rules around guns in the US. And it comes as lawmakers in Massachusetts, many of them in western Massachusetts, have said there's an urgent need for gun reform legislation with some violent incidents that have occurred over the past year. Also, after the devastating mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, the recent shooting of three students of Palestinian descent in Vermont over the weekend. Lawmakers want to act quickly on this, but I know things can get held up. What's the timeline for action?
Lannan: So far, we know that we're not likely to see a bill hit the floor or emerge before the holidays. We're looking at 2024. The committees face a February deadline to report out bills for consideration. And the ultimate goal is to have a bill on Governor Haley's desk by the end of July. That's a hard deadline for things of this nature that are more controversial.
Siegel: That's GBH statehouse reporter Katie Lannan. Katie, thanks so much for your time.
Lannan: Thank you.
Siegel: You're listening to GBH News.
Nearly 60 bills related to firearms are set to be considered in a public hearing that's likely to draw a big crowd and a heated debate.
The hearing comes after the Massachusetts House already passed a wide-ranging bill that tightens gun restrictions, cracking down on ghost guns and where guns can be carried, and as the state Senate is forming its own package.
So what is in these bills, and how many hurdles must be overcome for them to become laws? GBH’s Katie Lannan joined Morning Edition co-host Jeremy Siegel for an explainer.
The proposals are in part a reaction to Supreme Court rulings and recent violence
In 2022, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a New York gun law that limited who can carry guns outside the home and where guns are permitted. The ruling had national implications — including in Massachusetts, where legislators worried Second Amendment advocates would use the Supreme Court ruling to challenge the state’s regulations.
Some bills now before the Legislature are also a response to violence across the state and country.
A House listening tour took place earlier this year, and House Speaker Ron Mariano had originally said he wanted to pass by July of 2023.
“But that ran into a number of obstacles, including opposition from different groups, Second Amendment advocates among them,” Lannan said. “It ran into some concerns from House lawmakers themselves, and it sparked a fight with the Senate over what committee ultimately should have a hearing on the bills.”
The House wanted the proposals to head to the Judiciary Committee, while the Senate wanted the Public Safety Committee to review the bills.
This week, the bills will come before the Public Safety Committee.
“The House had held a hearing on its bill, but it was House members only,” Lannan said. “So this is really a time that the full legislature will now have a chance to hear from people on all sides of gun regulation issues.”
There are 56 gun-related bills on the table
The bills are wide-ranging, from a proposal backed by Attorney General Andrea Campbell that would strengthen the current state law prohibiting silencers to bills looking to relax existing gun rules, including a proposed prohibition on county or town level gun laws.
“There's bills that want to take a closer look at gun violence prevention and funding efforts in the state,” Lannan said. “There's bills that would make it legal for the state attorney general and Massachusetts residents to sue the firearm industry if they feel they were caused harm. So lots of different things on the docket.”
There are also proposals regarding ghost guns, weapons that can be ordered in unregulated, do-it-yourself parts online and finished at home or 3D printed, evading regulators.
“That’s something that's a major focus of the House bill,” Lannan said. “We don't know specifically how the Senate might pursue that. But there also, you know, we've heard the Senate president talk about this being a pared down version of the House bill, so they might focus more explicitly on ghost guns and leave the many other things in the House bill aside for another time.”
The Legislature is holding a hearing on Tuesday
On Tuesday, people who may be affected by new gun laws can come to Beacon Hill and speak before legislators. That’s usually one of the first steps in the legislative process — but in this case, the Senate is holding the hearings after the House has already passed its version of a gun bill.
“I think what we're really seeing here is the remnants of a procedural dispute between the House and Senate,” Lannan said. “The House had really started looking into gun law reforms last year after we saw the United States Supreme Court decision that forced a lot of states to rethink their gun laws.”
Any regulations could face some pushback
The Senate will have an opportunity to respond to criticism of the House version of the bill.
“We saw law enforcement officers opposed to some of the limits the House originally a proposed on where guns could be carried, because the prohibition originally in the House bill on bringing guns into schools, government buildings [and] polling places would have also applied to law enforcement officers,” Lannan said.
The House amended its bill to address that concern, adding language making clear that off-duty law enforcement officers could still carry department-issued firearms in those locations. Active, on-duty officers had always been exempt from the proposed ban.
But while there might be some opportunity to seek good will with opponents of the bill, some people may oppose increased regulation no matter what, Lannan said.
“I don't know that there's much to get some of those people who are more strongly and vociferously opposed on board at this point in the game,” she said.
If any laws are passed, it likely won’t be for a while
It’s not likely that any bills will come for a floor vote in the next month.
“We're looking at 2024,” Lannan said. “The committees face a February deadline to report out bills for consideration. And the ultimate goal is to have a bill on Gov. [Maura] Healey's desk by the end of July. That's a hard deadline for things of this nature that are more controversial.”
