What is the Massachusetts Governor's Council? And what's up with that one red bench at Castle Island?

The Governor's Council has made headlines in the past few months in considering commutations for the life sentences of several people convicted in the Massachusetts court system. But what exactly is it? The man behind GBH’s Curiosity Desk, Edgar B. Herwick III, joined hosts Paris Alston and Jeremy Siegel on GBH’s Morning Edition to explain how the council is built, and what it does. He also dove into a listener question on one special bench that's been standing out on Castle Island for decades. This transcript has been edited for clarity and length.

Paris Alston: So Edgar, we have a question to start. We have been talking about the Governor's Council — it was in a recent story we talked about with the commutation of sentences happening in Massachusetts. But then Jeremy asked, what is the governor's account?

Jeremy Siegel: I've never heard of this.

Edgar B. Herwick III: Yeah, it's a bit of a unique holdover from an earlier time. So the Governor's Council here in Massachusetts is a body that is laid out in the Massachusetts Constitution. Now keep in mind, the Massachusetts Constitution is the oldest still-functioning written constitution in the entire world. It predates the United States Constitution even. And back in the day, this Governor's Council idea is something that sort of stretches back to a time in England, and a number of the colonial states once had Governor's Councils. Massachusetts is one of the few that's held on to it.

It should be said New Hampshire still also has a kind of version very similar to ours, but basically it's eight individuals, and they are elected to two-year terms from eight districts, districts which are written specifically for these Governors Council seats. They draw salary — it's modest, about $36,000 a year, and they meet generally at the State House on Wednesdays. Now, as you suggested, Jeremy, it is true. By law, they are supposed to counsel the governor on issues like pardons and commutations. Also “payment of monies from the Treasury” is another thing they're supposed to counsel the governor on.

Siegel: Like that old timey language?

Herwick: Yeah, exactly. But the big one is the third thing that they are tasked with, which is counseling the governor on nominations of judicial officers — so that is in practice what they spend most of their time on. I checked in with our State House Reporter Mike Deehan, who knows just about as much as you can know about the Governor's Council. Here's what he had to say about the governor's council.

[previously recorded]

Mike Deehan: What it really does is it sets the judiciary apart from the business of the Legislature. Instead of the federal system where you have, say, the U.S. Senate deciding who gets to take up these high clerkships and judgeships, or even all the way up to the Supreme Court — in Massachusetts it’s this kind of random eight people, but they're dedicated to that task.

[recording ends]

Alston: So who are these eight people, Edgar?

Herwick: They are people who are elected, usually for the most part. They tend to be people from the legal profession because, as Mike suggests, the bulk of their work is really about kind of helping to decide who is going to sit in these judicial positions.

Siegel: It makes you think about at the national stage, all of the drama involving judicial nominations — if there were a national council. Enough of our curiosity, Edgar. We have some listener questions here — what do you got?

Herwick: That's right — we love to hear from listeners of the Curiosity Desk, and we've got a listener question here. Let me ask you both a question. Have you ever spent any time at Castle Island?

Alston: Regrettably, no.

Siegel: I have not either.

Herwick: Well, Susan Kiley from Easton, Massachusetts, calls Castle Island one of her favorite places in the entire city — she likes to walk her dogs there. Now, it should be said, Castle Island is a little bit of a misnomer because it is no longer an island, though it once was.

Alston: Is there a castle, though?

Herwick: There was once a castle there.

Siegel: But there is no longer?

Herwick: There is no longer a castle. Now it's a former fort. So double misnomer, right? But it surrounds Pleasure Bay. It's in South Boston and there's this long walkway along the bay and there's just bench, after bench, after bench, facing the bay. It's really beautiful, and it is one of those benches that has long mystified Susan. Here she is.

[previously recorded]

Susan Kiley: When I've gone there, I've really appreciated the benches and most of the benches are tan or green. And so there's just one bench that sticks out like a red bench would, and seems to be a landmark of sorts in the area. But I just wanted to know: why is it red?

[recording ends]

Siegel: So what do you got? Why the red bench?

Herwick: Well, it took a little digging for me to find somebody who could even address this, but I finally did track somebody down and I met up with this somebody at the red bench:

[previously recorded]

Paul Christian: The red bench is a very important bench to us Boston firefighters.

[recording ends]

Herwick: Christian is a South Boston native. He did 38 years with the Boston Fire Department, including six years as the fire commissioner and chief of the department. So he explained that this red bench was a spot back in the '70’s and the '80’s where this group of retired firefighters, mostly from South Boston, from the Greatest Generation — they had served in World War Two and were the guys who trained Paul’s generation. And after they retired, they started gathering at this bench every morning.

[previously recorded]

Christian: So they used to get together down here every morning with their coffee, hang together, talk about the old fires, talk about their doctor's appointments, what was going on. Some of them had lost their wives, and this was a terrific way of bonding.

[recording ends]

Herwick: So these firefighters would be here. Active firefighters started to know they were there, and they'd come down and meet them. And lo and behold.

[previously recorded]

Christian: At some point somebody came down with some red paint, and they decided to paint it red.

[recording ends]

Herwick: And it has been painted red ever since. So sometime in the early '80’s is the estimation of when this happened. This bench was painted red and has been kept red. Now, Christian says that the group of men, they've all passed away, and it has sort of now turned into this ad-hoc memorial to those firefighters in particular. But firefighters in general — and apparently any firefighter who knows about this — will not sit on the red bench. They'll sort of nod as they go by, but they will not sit down on the bench.

Alston: So do a lot of firefighters know about this bench?

Herwick: Well, apparently it is not as well known as it once was, but that could stand to change. As I was working on this story and trying to get to the bottom of this, I connected with some folks inside the fire department and they have said that they now want to try to make this an actual official fire department bench. So they are now working with the Castle Island Association to look into maybe putting a seal or a logo on the bench moving forward, and really not just adopting it, but owning it officially.

Siegel: All right, Edgar, on your Twitter feed, we've come to expect a random — or not so random — bit of information each day. You have anything like that for us today?

Herwick: Well, since we're talking and you asked about Castle Island, I'll give you a little something on Castle Island. So yes, there was a castle there. It was called Castle William, and it was taken by the Americans in the colonial era. They renamed it Fort Independence. It is where, after the Boston Massacre, the soldiers involved in that were held. And it is also where an 18-year-old man named Edgar Perry was stationed when he joined the army. Edgar Perry was the pseudonym of Edgar Allan Poe.

Alston: Oh, very cool. Well, Edgar Perry, Edgar Allan Poe, Edgar B. Herwick III.