New reports this week show the White House is further embracing the idea of laissez faire herd immunity as a way to deal with the coronavirus, which has now killed 216,000 Americans. Meanwhile, studies continue to document the number of excess coronavirus deaths caused by the White House’s mishandling of the pandemic, as the New England Journal of Medicine took the unprecedented step last week of calling for a turnover in America’s leadership. To discuss, Jim Braude was joined by Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health.