We break down the Vice Presidential debate with Commonwealth Magazine's Jack Sullivan ( @reportah) and Harvard Kennedy School's Leah Wright Rigueur( @LeahRigueur).

Rigueur said that while most pundits are saying that Pence won the debate, if you think about the long game, the soundbites that came out will help Clinton. She said to argue that Pence won means you have to suspend your belief in reality, She noted that Pence lied throughout the debate, and many of the lies are easily accessible through past interviews with Trump and Pence. She said that the soundbites will be useful in Clinton attack ads. Sullivan called Kaine a chihuahua on Redbull but agreed with Rigueur that the debate will help the democrats in the long run.

Both Rigueur and Sullivan agreed that Pence is an ideologue, and that the debate avoided a number of topics that could showcase this. Rigueur said that Kaine could have pushed much harder on those issues, such as LGBTQ rights and women's rights. Sullivan said that the debate will not move the needle with the undecided voters. Rigueur noted that it seemed like the Clinton campaign was gearing up to get under Trump's skin, for the Sunday night debate.