What Is Owed?

Tour bus ambience [00:00:00] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for your patience.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:04] All right. For this episode, we start on a tour bus as it sets off to roll through the streets of the first city in the United States to set up a reparations program. It's a small place just north of Chicago called Evanston, Illinois.

Dino Robinson [00:00:18] Welcome, everyone. Welcome. My name is Dino Robinson. I am the founder of Shorefront and Forefront Legacy Center, and I have in my hand a map of what our route is today. So I'm going to pass a row on this side and just pass it back. And well, on this side, please take one. Pass it back.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:37] Dino Robinson, the guy leading the tour, was critical to Evanston's reparations push. We'll talk more in depth about his role later. For now, all you really need to know is that he's a guy who has called Evanston home for a long time, and who took it upon himself to start teaching others about its black history.

Dino Robinson [00:00:56] So with that, we will get started and welcome Ray, who.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:04] Evanston was officially incorporated as a town in 1863, built around the city's major landmark, Northwestern University, which had been founded a decade earlier. One thing Robinson points out, and that we should acknowledge here, too, it was the removal of Native American tribal nations that permitted Evanston to be settled in this way. As the bus rolls through the downtown area. Robinson explains to folks on the tour that lore has it. Evanston was established as a churchy place for people looking to worship and rest, and judging by the fact that Evanston was once a major site of activity for the religious women's temperance movement, that kind of checks out anyway. Robinson says, to help with that sanctified and restful lifestyle folks wanted, they needed domestic workers.

Dino Robinson [00:01:55] They needed domestic workers. And for the report, part of Evans's history was attracting former slaves and freedmen to come and locate directly in Evanston, not Chicago first, but Evanston and therefore the North Shore.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:11] The first black resident came to Evanston in 1855. A young woman purchased out of slavery and brought to work as a domestic servant from there. Robinson says that pattern continued, and the black population grew, and with a modicum of freedom in this place, black people could build their own businesses to their own churches, their own homes and community.

Dino Robinson [00:02:35] And with that came a growing business population as early as the 1870s.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:41] The tour bus keeps rolling through downtown.

Dino Robinson [00:02:44] Take note where you are in downtown Evanston, and note that at one time when Evanston was growing, there was about 300 black people living in the immediate downtown Evanston area. This is circa 1900.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:59] Research shows that it's around this time the burgeoning black press began noting instances of the northern version of Jim Crow discrimination that wasn't always explicit or legally sanctioned. But while socially accepted practices like segregation in streetcars and parks practices that ultimately led to the city being divided by race. Robinson points to some elevated railroad tracks as the bus keeps rolling before 1900.

Dino Robinson [00:03:28] These elevated tracks were not elevated. They're on ground level, but over the course of time when these barriers were put up, it started restricting and designating certain areas of Evanston as black white.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:39] These physical barriers formed the boundary lines of what would become Evanston's designated area for black residents, marking the beginning of a pattern of racial segregation in housing that targeted Evanston's growing black population. There were racially restrictive covenants and government actions that corralled black families into a middle triangle of the city, now known as the fifth Ward. Private real estate professionals labeled this section of the city as hazardous or less desirable, making it harder to get mortgages. Overcrowding there drove up housing prices, making homeownership more difficult. This pattern of discrimination continued well into the 20th century. In this section of the city, which remains the epicenter of Evanston's black community, it impacted the daily lives and well-being of black Evanston residents and impacted their ability to work, buy property and build wealth. A century later, it is this, rather than slavery, that the city of Evanston has decided to pay reparations for. And it's this journey that hundreds of communities across the country are trying to replicate. So how did it start? Who brought the political courage to get the government to act? Who did the work to demonstrate Evanston's complicity? And how is Evanston's inaugural program being received now? I'm Soraya Winter Smith. This is what is owed.

Pre-Roll

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:00:01] Good afternoon, I'm Robyn Russell Simmons. I am the founder and executive director of First Repair. I fight full time to advance liberation and repair for black folks across the United States.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:13] Of all the people you can talk to about black reparations, there are few with more credibility than Robin Simmons. I say that mainly because she's actually gotten a government to fund reparations. In 2019, while serving as an older woman for the city of Evanston, Illinois, Rue Simmons called for the vote to establish the nation's first local black reparations fund.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:00:38] With this fund, we can implement programing to directly invest into Black Evanston. Our measurements of success can include increased black household income, increase in revenue for black owned businesses, and improve infrastructure for historically black and Red line neighborhoods.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:54] The legislation dedicated $10 million of recreational marijuana sales tax revenue into the Reparations Fund. In her remarks before it passed. Ruth Simmons pointed to some of the council's other symbolic votes, expressing support for the idea of fostering equity among black residents. From her perspective, it was time to do something.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:01:18] Our reparations policy is our best step in repairing the demonstrable damages to black families, black neighborhoods, black institutions, and black businesses. We are leaders in Evanston, and it is time we lead our city past ceremony and apology and into our overdue commitment to reparative policy.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:36] And the Evanston City Council agreed.

City of Evanston Hearing [00:01:39] All right. Resolution one 26 hour dash 19, establishing this a City of Evanston funding source of local reparations passes on a 8 to 1 vote. Congratulations.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:53] Rue Simmons says at that time, both the past and the present were weighing heavy on her mind.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:01:58] And I call the question not having any clue that it would have the ripple effect that it's had in the reparations movement. But hopeful that it would be a call to action to Congress and more hyper locally, a call to action to institutional accomplices in my own city.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:19] And this has been her city all her life. Robyn Ruth Simmons was born and raised in Evanston. She grew up in the fifth Ward, and she knew firsthand what it meant to live in a deeply segregated city.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:02:36] I grew up in the black village of Evanston. I remember being told, these are the boundaries of your Evanston. And it was the West End of the fifth Ward. It was the black community where I was safe, where I was seen, where my neighbors knew me and my family, where my family trusted that I would be protected or steered in the right direction.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:58] But then she entered grade school and began making friends from outside Evanston's Black Village. She said even as a child, she could see and feel the inequities while visiting different parts of the city and playdates.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:03:11] And I saw that my community, my village that I love, that's full of love and soul and vibes. All the vibes did not have the same access and standards as the rest of Evanston, and I became very curious as a young girl about the cause, the outcomes, and the solutions.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:34] Ruth Simmons grew up to be an entrepreneur, opening several businesses that focused on expanding opportunities for Evanston's black residents. She ran for city council in 2017, saying she wanted to be a voice for black residents and women and others who had been so often excluded. She was elected and served until 2021 as a member of the city council. She said the city's economic disparities weighed on her. It was still segregated from its long history of redlining and the place where black of Estonians lived. She says, had the most inferior infrastructure.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:04:10] The only neighborhood without a school, the only neighborhood without, you know, walkable access to healthy food, deteriorating housing stock, the lowest incomes and homeownership rates, the lowest educational outcomes. And the story is the same in my city and your city. No matter where you live, you don't even have to tell me this is the American way by design.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:33] Furthermore, Evanston's black population was shrinking at the time it hit a low of 16%. For Simmons, that loss was personal.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:04:43] And I remember sitting in the automatic library at the Civic Center. Feeling the weight of hearing your friends and neighbors choose to relocate out of Evanston because it's unaffordable and they don't feel as. Though. There's a place for us here.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:02] On top of all of that, she says, she realized that 2019 marked 400 years since the first Africans arrived in what would eventually become the United States of America.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:05:12] It was the 400th year of black resilience in the United States.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:17] And after all that reflection, Bruce Simmons felt like she had no other choice.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:05:23] I cannot point my finger at Congress and what they are doing or not doing, and I'm looking at this data right here on my black. Who am I as a leader to say any other leader should be doing more when there is more that I could do.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:46] These days, Robyn Ruth Simmons is doing even more. She founded a nonprofit that advises people putting together other local reparations efforts. And she organizes Evanston's Annual Reparations Symposium, an event that brings together activists from across the country for a weekend of study, strategy making and discussion. To date, the reparations program she championed has distributed around $3 million to black residents. That includes both direct cash payments and assistance with mortgage payments, home renovations and home purchases. Even with all that as her legacy, you can hear she's still kind of hard on herself when it comes to the pursuit of equity for black people. When I ask her about how she thinks she's doing, she says she gives herself a grade of incomplete.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:06:36] As long as we have, you know, $0.10 on the dollar, sometimes less. As long as we are still being publicly lynched by police in the streets. As long as we cannot achieve academic, educational, economic, housing, health outcomes because of systemic oppression, we are incomplete.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:01] Ruth Simmons goes on to say that she does give herself credit for calling the reparations question when there was zero precedent for a local program. But now that there is, she is hopeful Evanston will continue to inspire more places.

Robyn Russell Simmons [00:07:16] It is possible reparations is not a political nonstarter. It's not too provocative. It is not unattainable. At least one city has shown that there is a path forward.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:28] Not only is there a path forward, the program's reception has been overwhelmingly positive.

Alvin Tillery [00:07:40] I expected there to be a large racial gap. I expected, despite how progressive Evanston is, I thought most white Evans Etonians would be opposed to the program.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:53] That's Alvin Tillery, political science professor at northwestern and co-founder and CEO of the boutique social justice consulting firm the 2040 strategy Group. He describes himself as a DIY evangelist, and he also does a lot of polling. And to that point, Tillery studied the response to Evanston's reparations initiative, and he's pretty enthusiastic about it.

Alvin Tillery [00:08:19] If I were the most powerful person in the world, I would be looking at. Evanston has the formula for solving my problems.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:08:30] At the 2023 National Symposium for State and Local Reparations, he tells the crowd about the moment Robin Ruth Simmons approached, asking him to do the very first survey of urban Estonians feelings about the city enacting a reparations program.

Alvin Tillery [00:08:45] When Robyn came to me and said, would you like to do the survey? Or that they would like a survey done, I think I said to you, why? Why would you want to do a survey?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:08:56] Tillery admits he was skeptical, so confidently skeptical that he made a bet.

Alvin Tillery [00:09:02] I think I said if we get to 40% approval among white Evanston Ians, I would go out into the yard at northwestern and do cartwheels, and I'm going to do them this spring, I owe you. Yeah.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:09:14] As it turns out, the poll showed most Evanston residents supported the city's reparations program, indicating they view it as good public policy. That includes 70% of white Evanston residents. Hillary's poll was conducted by Northwestern's Center for the Study of Diversity and Democracy, which he runs, and the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. In 2023, they talked to about 3500 residents between February and June. They asked two questions.

Alvin Tillery [00:09:53] First, we asked, do you think the program's good public policy for the city of Evanston?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:09:59] And in addition to 70% of white respondents indicating they do, 64% of black respondents, 61% of Latino respondents and 62% of Asian respondents supported the policy.

Alvin Tillery [00:10:13] Second question we asked has reparation program increased or decreased your trust in Evanston's local government? Right. And here we had net gains in trust across every category.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:10:31] 26% of white residents said that it made them trust the government more, along with 12% of black residents, 15% of Asian residents and 13% of Latino residents. Tillery heralds the bit about high white support for a reparations program as a significant finding. In an interview, he explained that his view on that ties back to why he was confident enough to make a bet, anticipating low support. He knew what national polling suggests regarding white people's feelings on reparations in theory.

Alvin Tillery [00:11:07] All of our data tells us that when you ask white people questions about reparations, they freak out and it's like, you know, like 85% of white Americans, when you ask them if reparations is a good idea, say no.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:11:25] Do you think that this sort of framing of reparations questions about a payback that goes back to slavery? Do you think that's what stops most white people from giving support to sort of the theoretical reparations programs that we ask about in national surveys?

Alvin Tillery [00:11:44] No, I think racism is what stops sweat people for from it. I think they feel like they've learned from the beginning that blacks are unworthy. Oh, well. You know, the black kids are buying Nike. So instead of taking that money and doing that, like, you know, like that narrative is very attractive to the people that are living, on the other side of the divide.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:12:10] I want to note that in the 2022 Pew Research Center poll we've been referring to throughout this podcast, white opposition to reparations is a little less than the 85% Tillery mentioned. It's like 80, which is still high. Tillery says those poll results can discourage politicians from taking up the issue, or discourage regular people from even talking about the issue. But in his view, his poll negates one of the most common assumptions from both reparations critics and advocates. We've heard across this podcast that implementing a plan could be majorly divisive.

Alvin Tillery [00:12:48] What you can do with these evanescent findings is challenge all of that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:12:51] Tillery again at the 2023 National Reparations Symposium. He tells the crowd the findings show that it is possible to achieve widespread support for reparations across ethnic and racial divides. And that could be a powerful notion in political circles.

Alvin Tillery [00:13:07] So when you go into these meetings with people who are supposed to be representing us, who get really nervous in election years, and you say we want a commission, we want H.R. 40 power. And they're like, well, I'm really nervous about what that's going to do to our ability to recapture the House of Representatives. You say, well, well, well, in Evanston, we've actually found that the most supportive groups, which is a solidly blue constituency, are, you know, white folks, there's no race riot. So what are you running away from?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:13:47] Tillery acknowledges that the results of his poll aren't immediately replicable everywhere, and there are factors that might have contributed to his results. Aside from the city of Evanston being a heavily Democratic place, number one polls only measure a finite period of time and circumstances.

Alvin Tillery [00:14:07] We've measured one snapshot in time. Now, if they go forward and change the program, we might get different results.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:14:16] Number two, this polling happened before Evanston started handing out cash payments. At the time they were in the field, the city was only giving reparations as a restorative housing effort. Number three, Evanston's program is somewhat narrowly focused on the more recent harms associated with redlining and the northern version of Jim Crow. There's no government watchdog that tracks reparations efforts nationally, but most of the time when we talk about this concept, it begins with the legacy of slavery in Evanston. It doesn't. It's hard to know how these factors might have played into Evanston's view of its reparations program, until he says he's already planning to do more surveys to find out. But there is one factor he says played an undeniable role in getting Evanston to accept reparations. Community education. Do you think Evanston's program would have been possible at all without that combination of political sort of organizing and public education?

Alvin Tillery [00:15:21] No. Absolutely not. The key there is to correct the kind of miseducation of white and black people on what has led to these glaring inequalities that are obvious to everyone.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:15:38] And this is where Deno Robinson comes in.

Mid-Roll

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:00] Dino Robinson is Peacock proud when leading tour goers off the bus and into the aisles of the Shaw Front Legacy Center's archives.

Dino Robinson [00:00:09] What you see behind you in this room? For the most part, I connected with families and organizations, institutions and brought all of these things in.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:20] Housed within the lower level of a church. Altogether, the space is relatively small, about 2000ft², but it's filled with rows and rows of five by five wire shelves that are stacked with boxes, portals to evanston's past. So many, in fact, that when asked to show one of his favorite pieces, it takes Robinson a good minute.

Robinson [00:00:44] Okay, I'm going to go back in first, folks. I think it's over there.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:00:47] And I want to note that Dino Robinson has so much stuff in these archives that it's hard for him to even find some of his favorite pieces.

Robinson [00:00:57] Because it's Brooks. Easter and the recipe. And a bell. Oh, here it is.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:09] He pulls out an old photo album. It's one that he got from a family that let him come in and rummage around their basement. As it turns out, the photo album shows the family was once connected to singer and actress Vanessa Williams.

Robinson [00:01:25] So this is the couple of the files that we received in the archives. Short-tum and Vanessa Williams.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:32] Wow.

Robinson [00:01:34] You know, like, how cool is that? You know, there's like, this connection across the country with, like, somebody famous.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:01:40] It's sort of a joy to see Robinson fangirling over a Vanessa Williams deep cut. It highlights how he views the city's history. Robinson is not a trained historian. If you ever get the chance to go on one of his tours, it's one of the first things he'll tell you. He's actually a graphic designer, but that didn't stop him from founding Shorefront almost 30 years ago. In fact, it's what inspired him. It began as an interest group for folks looking to document Evanston's black history.

Dino Robinson [00:02:12] So Shorefront started because of what other historical organizations were not doing.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:18] Robinson noticed there was this repetitive, thin narrative about Evanston's early black community that they lived in the city. They worked mostly as domestic caretakers. They went to church and that was it. He knew there was more to it than that. So he formed the organization to start telling that story.

Dino Robinson [00:02:39] I always want to be collaborative.

Robinson [00:02:40] With people, but part of that collaboration, sometimes you have to educate people about why it's important and to reset your standard or what you think is normal. And in this country, what's been standardized and normalized was white culture and white history, and everything else is necessary too.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:02:57] And then in 2000, after serving on the board of the Evanston History Center for some time, he became the board president. The first black board president. When he recounts the story to a tour group, he says at that time, the History Center had ten goals. One of them was diversifying their board.

Dino Robinson [00:03:19] And they thought by electing me, I'd be an ambassador to the black community, which I probably said before we get started with anything. I am not the ambassador to the black community. If you want to see this done, you have to do the legwork. And judging by your history of over 110 years of your existence, you have failed to do so.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:03:42] Robinson says he noticed other problems in the archiving space, too. Like how difficult it can be to feel comfortable within or just have access to the archives of, say, a university library.

Dino Robinson [00:03:55] So Shorefront started because of what other historical organizations were not doing. So when you go into libraries and archives, you have to ask where the deep archives are. Can we look through those boxes? Why isn't this collection processed? That's a gate. You can't park on campus if the park off campus. They can get to the library. If it's not study week, you will not get into the library for study week. Then you have to ask permission to see your own history.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:26] Robinson says all these obstacles to access Evanston's Black Past raises the potential for memories and histories to be lost. And Shorefront is meant to be a different sort of experience to counter that problem. Today, it's a full nonprofit dedicated to the collection, preservation, and sharing of all its materials. About Evanston's black history.

Dino Robinson [00:04:49] We are active collectors. We come in, we engage with the community, and we make sure the community knows that this is their collection.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:04:58] The archives aren't open 24 over seven, but there aren't the same sort of access barriers as a library. Robinson says a lot of the collection materials are from local families that have donated their items for safekeeping.

Dino Robinson [00:05:12] We have families that still come here as when they come into town and they live out of town now, they probably come here to look at their family history and share with their children, and sometimes they add to it. On top of that.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:05:25] That community relationship building is what makes Robinson's part in the nation's first local reparations program so important. If you think about Robyn Ruth Simmons role in establishing Evanston's reparations program, she was sort of like the political ace in the hole, prompting the government to take the step. Robinson played the equally crucial other role. The community boots on the ground, helping to cultivate wider public awareness of Evanston's history, especially the history of how it treated its black residents. And to that point, when it comes to the piece in the archive he thinks is most impactful. Robinson points to the collections of Edwin Bush Jordan Junior.

Robinson [00:06:10] So everyone featured in junior was an alderman, the first African-American alderman here in Evanston, Illinois. He was elected in office in the 1930s and served for 16 years.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:06:20] Folks in Boston might recognize Jordan's name, too. He was a Harvard grad who fought to integrate dormitories in the 1920s. Then when he came to Evanston, he fought to integrate public facilities and ensure equitable city services for black residents. Later, as Illinois's first black assistant school superintendent, he fought to integrate schools and get equal pay for teachers.

Robinson [00:06:45] You know, we have his handwritten speeches, the studies, his correspondences, all through his term in office materials.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:06:56] Robinson says that helped him craft the now 80 plus page report that documented racially discriminatory policies in Evanston. He says it aided public education about the case for reparations.

Robinson [00:07:09] And that, for the first time caused this community to pause and say, oh, we were not this liberal community that we thought we were. And we see now the inequity that was happening and the reason behind it.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:22] And although many attribute widespread white support for Evanston's reparations program to Robinson's efforts, he says breaking down white resistance wasn't really even a goal on his radar. It was always about community education.

Robinson [00:07:38] So it's an educational process with the white community as well, and they have to be willing to take it in because, you know, and I'm saying this in general statements, they don't like us, so they don't like us. Why would they want to listen to us? They'll write it off as, oh, you're being emotional or angry, which was anecdotal. Where's the proof?

Saraya Wintersmith [00:07:57] As part of that educational process. When Evanston's reparations discussion started to heat up, he got calls from folks asking him for cheat sheet versions of his research. He told them to go do their own work.

Robinson [00:08:12] Kenney, come and tell us what we did to the black community. And my response was, we have a lot of information that's all online, you know, libraries, research and then come to me and ask questions.

Saraya Wintersmith [00:08:26] And maybe in some ironic way, that's the key for overcoming the resistance, both real and perceived, that white people have towards reparations after a political conversation is prompted. Leading them to education, to reflection and to action. We'll talk about that with a guest who has inspired white people to do their own work in the social justice realm. Next time on what is owed. What is owed is a production of GBH news. This episode was produced and written by our senior producer Jerome Campbell, along with me, Soraya Wynter Smith. Editing by Paul Singer. Production oversight by Lee Hill. Mixing and sound design by David Goodman and Gary Mott. Theme song and original music by Maleek Williams. Artwork by Matt Welch and mommy. How about we love hearing from our listeners? Leave us a voicemail at 617958 6061. GBH.