During the ongoing impeachment inquiry for President Donald Trump this week, the National Security Council's top Ukraine expert, Alexander Vindman, testified that he tried, and failed, to correct at least two aspects of the rough transcript of Trump’s July phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Vindman also said that ellipses in that written record hid a part where Trump told Zelensky there were tapes of former Vice President Joe Biden, and another where Zelensky promised Ukraine's prosecutor general would look into a company for Trump.

To discuss all this and more, Jim Braude was joined by former National Security Advisor for President Obama, Susan Rice.