Major League Baseball is coming under fire for a plan to shrink Minor League Baseball. Under the proposal, 42 teams would lose their affiliations with their Major League clubs. That includes the Lowell Spinners, a Class A team in the Red Sox farm system. Fans, owners, and politicians are pushing back. Among them is Spinners' owner Dave Heller, who also owns three other Minor League teams. He was in Washington D.C. this week lobby against the plan. Heller spoke with WGBH All Things Considered Host Arun Rath. The transcript below has been edited for clarity.

Arun Rath: Under this MLB plan, the Spinners would lose their affiliation with the Red Sox, but they could be part of something called the "Dream League," where promising players who aren't drafted would play. If this plan moves ahead, what would that mean for the Spinners?

Dave Heller: We're doing everything we can to make sure the plan doesn't move ahead, because I don't believe the "Dream League" is real. I believe the "Dream League" is more of a pipe-dream league. I don't understand the logistics of it at all, and I don't like anything about it that I've heard.

Rath: I feel like I hear about people going to the games, but how are the Spinners doing in terms of attendance and in terms of money?

Heller: We're doing great. We're a profitable club, we get about 3,500 or 3,600 fans a game on average. We are a very integral part of the community of Lowell that we play in. Certainly we're doing much better than a number of the teams that are not on the contracted list.

Rath: The Worcester Red Sox are set to debut in 2021. They're the Red Sox Triple A affiliate, just one step below the major league team. They're moving from Pawtucket, Rhode Island. Does this factor into all of this in any way?

Heller: The honest answer is, I don't know what is factoring into these plans. They seem very arbitrary. They don't make any sense. They say, well, we're contracting these teams because their facilities aren't very good. And we're going, have you ever even taken a look at us? Because we are like nothing what you are describing. Our ballpark in Lowell is one of the nicest ballparks in the entire New York-Penn League, and is certainly nicer than some of the other ballparks that are on the not contracted list. If you don't want to date Miss America, don't date her, but don't say it's because she's not pretty. They say one of the criteria is geography with regard to your Major League affiliate, and we are as close to our Major League affiliate as just about anybody in the country, so I don't understand that. There's no objective reason that I can find to put the Spinners on the contracted list.

Rath: Not to put a fine point on it, but it sounds like MLB isn't being very open about their process with you or maybe other owners.

Heller: No, I think Putin would admire their secrecy in this whole process.

Rath: What are you hearing from Spinners' fans and the people of Lowell?

Heller: I'm hearing anger and frustration, and most of all, confusion.

Rath: Have you had conversations with the Red Sox top brass on this?

Heller: I have spoken to Red Sox President Sam Kennedy, and he and I are supposed to get together next week for breakfast and talk about this a little bit more. The Red Sox tell us, we want to see Lowell survive, we'd like to see Lowell continue, and we've enjoyed the relationship with Lowell. But they also make it clear that they are part of MLB and they're going to be consistent with what MLB wants to do.

Rath: This is getting a lot of bipartisan push-back in Congress. Massachusetts Congresswoman Lori Trahan, a Democrat whose district includes Lowell, has formed a task force in this issue. You've been in Washington D.C. Are you hopeful about what you're hearing?

Heller: The main reason I am so hopeful is because of Lori Trahan. Lori has been the leader in this effort to save minor league baseball in general, and to save the Spinners in particular.

Rath: Overall, in terms of Minor League Baseball, are there changes that should be made?

Heller: We're not saying that everything is perfect and why are you guys not seeing that everything is perfect? I think Minor League Baseball would even say that there is no question that there are some facilities that are not up to standard. Our position has always been, look, give us a clearly delineated set of standards, objective criteria, and give us three years to meet them. We'll meet them, and if we don't meet them, then take away the team. But don't go out there and punish Lowell, or anyone else, for that matter, who is providing all of the benefits and all of the amenities that Major League teams want because of some reason that we don't even understand.