Former Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis says Governor Charlie Baker will be unable to fix the state’s infrastructure and transportation problems without drastic policy and budget changes.

Dukakis told WGBH News that Baker will have to go against his “no new taxes” campaign pledge if he can't scrap projects with huge cost estimates. He compared Baker’s MBTA plans to the Big Dig, which was among the most expensive highway projects in U.S. history.

“We’re going to be looking at exactly the same kind of problems, and we’re seeing it, with these ridiculous cost estimates,” Dukakis said during an interview with Boston Public Radio Wednesday. “I’m not going to say they will not require some additional revenue — it may. But if you’ve got credibility because you’re doing a job and doing it well, I think people will be supportive of modest increases in revenue.”

According to an MBTA analysis, a proposed expansion of South Station would cost $4.7 billion, and a North-South rail link, which Dukakis has long pushed for, is estimated between $12 and $21 billion.

During Baker’s campaign, he touted a "no new taxes" platform, but Dukakis says new tax revenue is unavoidable with the proposed South Station expansion. The North-South rail link, which is projected to be far more expensive, would “pay for itself,” according to Dukakis.

“It’s all about management,” he said, suggesting the project could be done without new revenue.

“If you have 70,000 riders, that’s a lot of revenue,” Dukakis said. “Not only that, if you unify the system, previous studies have indicated that there were savings in the millions, simply by having a unified system, so you don’t have repairs on the South side and repairs on the North side and all kinds of inefficiencies.”

The estimates, put out by a draft study by the MBTA, don’t accurately represent the cost, according to Dukakis. “I can tell you I have two very good acquaintances who are two of the best transportation construction people I know. … both of them say to me that we ought to be able to do south coast rail for substantially less than $1 billion,” he said. “So what’s the current estimate at the [MBTA]? $3 billion, and going up. … I mean, this is cloud cuckoo land, folks.”

Michael Dukakis served as Massachusetts Governor from 1975 to 1979 and again from 1983 to 1991. To hear his full interview with Boston Public Radio, click on the audio player above.