November 05, 2012 Updated January 09, 2016 20121105_totn_03.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1017&d=1819&story=164342232&ft=nprml&f=164342232 Listen • 30:27 20121105_totn_03.mp3?orgId=1&topicId=1017&d=1819&story=164342232&ft=nprml&f=164342232 Copyright 2016 NPR. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.