Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: He's performed with
Mario Bauza, Dizzy Gillespie,
and Tito Puente, and is one of
the most celebrated
percussionists in Latin jazz
today-- musician, conductor, and
composer Bobby Sanabria.
I'm Maria Hinijosa.
This is One on One.
Bobby Sanabria, I just want to
read the first line from your
official bio.
It says you are a percussionist,
drummer, composer, arranger,
bandleader, recording artist,
producer, filmmaker, conductor,
educator, multicultural warrior,
and of course, multiple Grammy
nominee.
And all of that produced in the
South Bronx.
>> SANABRIA: That's right.
As we would say in the South
Bronx, all that and a bag of
chips.
>> HINOJOSA: So a lot of people,
when they think of the South
Bronx, 1960s, '70s, when you
were growing up...
>> SANABRIA: Right, right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: ...their image is
of a place that was entirely
desolate, that was, you know, in
destruction.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: But for you, it was
a totally different reality.
>> SANABRIA: Well, there was that element
to it.
But I always say that I was very
fortunate to have grown up in
that time period, because the
culture, as far as Latino and
African American culture,
particularly Afro Puerto Rican,
Afro Cuban culture, and
obviously African American
culture, were in full force in
the streets, particularly in the
summertime, because we had
rumbas in the park all the
time.
That's when you'd hear people
playing drums, conga drums, and
playing this beautiful rhythm.
>> HINOJOSA: Now, I'm going to
stop you right there, because I
bet some people are saying,
"They had what in the park?"
Rumbas.
>> SANABRIA: Right, rumbas.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, so we're
going to assume that there's a
lot of people who are watching
us who don't know a lot of these
terms.
So a rumba is what?
>> SANABRIA: A rumba is like a street
party.
In Cuba it would be done... it
really started with the
dockworkers in Los Moyes, in the
docks, et cetera.
And it's the music of the
streets.
It's drums, vocals, and dance.
So you'd hear in the park,
(imitates drumming)
(vocalizing)
>> HINOJOSA: And that's the
stuff that, okay, you were
saying was happening in Cuba,
but this is now happening in the
streets of the South Bronx.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right.
And this is what the Puerto
Rican community... we inherited
Afro Cuban music through our
forefathers, et cetera, from the
mambo era, et cetera, et cetera.
And they... as we say in
Spanish, tambor llama, "the drum
calls."
So imagine listening to that in
the projects.
I grew up in the Melrose
projects, 681.
In the canyons of the projects
you're hearing that not only
during the day, but at 3:00 in
the morning in the basketball
courts, et cetera.
And instead of... what I tell
people is the difference between
our community and, say, somebody
living in the suburbs, is in the
suburbs, somebody would start
calling 911, the cops, say,
"Hey, there's these people
drumming," et cetera.
But at 3:00 in the morning in
our neighborhoods, people would
be going, "Yeah, keep it going."
>> HINOJOSA: "Don't stop."
>> SANABRIA: Yeah, yeah.
And so (speaking Spanish)
>> HINOJOSA: So for you... but
this notion of kind of living
with music all around you,
you... I love the story of your
dad, who was a machinist.
>> SANABRIA: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: Again, Puerto
Rican.
And he would come home from
work, and he would sit and
listen to music in order to
relax from his hard day of work.
>> SANABRIA: Right, because he worked in
Long Island, so it would take
him two hours to get there and
two hours to get back.
So my mother would tell me,
"Your father's going to sit in
that La-z-Boy chair he bought,
he's going to smoke a cigar,
drink some Schaffer beer, and
listen to music.
And don't bother him."
So I would listen to what he
would listen to.
And that would be everything
from Harry Belafonte live at
Carnegie Hall to Machito and his
Afro Cubans to Tito Puente,
jibaro music from the folk
traditions in Puerto Rico to,
you know, jazz, Brazilian music.
I remember when he played
something by Sergio Mendes and
Brazil '66, Mas que Nada.
I go, "Hey, Pop, that sounds
like Spanish, but it isn't."
And he said, "No, because it's
Portuguese."
You know, that's what they speak
in Brazil.
So he's giving me a little
social studies lesson at the
same time.
>> HINOJOSA: So you said another
word that I bet some people
stopped for a second.
You said jibaro music.
So what is jibaro music?
>> SANABRIA: Jibaro music is the music of
the countryside, the mountain
people from the island of Puerto
Rico, the obreros, the workers,
the farmers, et cetera.
>> HINOJOSA: And what would,
like, jibaro music sound like?
>> SANABRIA: Well, it's very guitar
oriented, very string oriented.
We have a mandolin type of
instrument in Puerto Rico known
as the cuatro that has ten
strings.
And, of course, anybody that
knows Spanish, it's ten double
strings.
So people would go, "Well, how
come they don't call it the
cinqo if it's five sets of
double strings?"
Used to be four sets of double
strings, but in 1952, an
instrument maker in Puerto Rico
added an extra set.
But we Puerto Ricanos, sometimes
we're conservative, so we kept
the name the cuatro.
So it's very soulful music, very
soulful music that has deep ties
to Southern Spain, but also our
rhythm is also from West Africa.
So... and in the jibaro music,
the country people, the
mountainside people, the
farmers, express their love for
the country, for each other.
They talk about farming, they
talk about religion, they talk
about what's happening in the
neighborhood, et cetera.
It's very, very soulful music.
>> HINOJOSA: There's something
that they do in the jibaro
music, (speaking Spanish) is
that it?
>> SANABRIA: Right, that comes from...
>> HINOJOSA: Just sing a little
bit.
I know that you're not... you
know, you do many things, but
you also sing.
It's not your... but just so
that people, when they hear it,
they'll be like, "Oh."
>> SANABRIA: Well, you'd hear, like, what
we could... some of the... one
of the typical rhythms we use is
what we call a caballo, which
sounds like a horse gaiting.
So you hear, (imitates drums)
(singing in Spanish)
So you hear, like, kind of like
the little miasma in the voice.
>> HINOJOSA: A little bit like
from Spain.
>> SANABRIA: Yeah, but we inherited that
kind of note bending, et cetera,
and very soulful interpretation
in the voice, from the Middle
East.
>> HINOJOSA: Oh.
>> SANABRIA: From Arabic traditions that
we inherited through Southern
Spain.
Of course, anybody who was
paying attention during high
school history class knows that
the Moors and the Muslims were
in Spain for, like, what is it,
over 800 years.
So that's part and parcel,
besides Africa, and the lyricism
and harmonies that we heard from
Europe through Spain, that's
part of our culture.
And that's one of my big
missions, to make sure that
people understand that we are a
multidimensional people, we are
multicultural.
All Latinos are.
>> HINOJOSA: Right, so what I
want to know, Bobby, is when
you're growing up in the South
Bronx, horrible things are
happening around you.
>> SANABRIA: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: When they decide to
build the Cross Bronx
Expressway, right?
>> SANABRIA: Right, and the Bruckner
Express way.
>> HINOJOSA: And the Bruckner
Expressway.
And you're this kid.
I mean, at that point, where...
you know, are you paying
attention in high school, and
are you thinking, "Okay, I'm
going to become a musician," or
are you thinking, "Look, there's
destruction around me, there's
so much heroin, everything's on
fire"?
What's going on for you?
>> SANABRIA: Well, music basically... and
sports.
I found avenues of expression
through sports.
I was very good in sports,
especially track and field.
Baseball.
I had these grand aspirations of
becoming the second baseman for
the New York Yankees.
And in the '60s, the teams
weren't that good, so that was
something that might have been
possible.
But basically I had several
epiphanies when I was very
young, and they started coming
little by little, little by
little.
First epiphany was hearing the
drumming, as I said, the rumbas
in the street.
>> HINOJOSA: And again, you said
this thing, "el tambor llama."
>> SANABRIA: "The drum calls," right.
>> HINOJOSA: "The drum calls."
You felt this.
>> SANABRIA: Right.
And then when I was 12 years
old, Tito Puente came to my
neighborhood with the Machito
Afro Cubans, and those two
orchestras played in front of my
project.
They set up a stage, and they
played.
>> HINOJOSA: And this was a free
concert?
It was...
>> SANABRIA: Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Which is... I mean,
kind of... when I was reading
about this, it, like, goes back
to the importance of having free
public art and music, because it
can change someone's life.
>> SANABRIA: Exactly.
And that was... my friend
Marvin, who is no longer alive,
unfortunately, may he rest in
peace, I went... I lived in
apartment 12A, which was the
opposite side of the building,
so you couldn't see on East
153rd street, where the concert
was happening.
So he calls me up, I go down to
his apartment, 9A, and we're
looking out the window.
And I go, "Hey, man, we've got
to go downstairs."
And he goes, "No, man, come on."
You know, "Why don't we stay up
here, man?
Besides that, we could throw
spitballs at people and
everything."
>> SANABRIA: I go, "No, no, no, I want to
get near the music."
So we go down, and by the time
we get to the front, Tito Puente
in all his majesty is playing
one of his signature songs which
he composed in 1955.
(singing in Spanish)
(vocalizing instrumental parts)
And you hear the brass, and then
when he points to the
saxophones, they stand up, and
it was like... it was like
Hannibal coming in through
Italy, through Sicily, with the
elephants.
It was amazing.
I mean, and it was...
>> HINOJOSA: And you knew then?
You said, "Okay, music is going
to be what I'm going to do"?
>> SANABRIA: Well, yeah.
That was one one of... that, and
then I was very fortunate also,
because during that time period,
jazz was still very much a part
of the psyche of mainstream
America, because it was in all
the cartoons, Johnny Quest, Top
Cat, Courageous Cat...
>> HINOJOSA: Pink Panther.
>> SANABRIA: All these... yeah, right.
You can go down the list.
All of the variety shows had
orchestras playing jazz in one
way or another.
The TV shows, McHale's Navy, et
cetera.
>> HINOJOSA: God, everybody's
going to go back, and they're
going to start listening to
these shows.
You end up coming to Boston to
the Berklee School of Music.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: But what...
>> And I was the first... I was
the first Puerto Rican from New
York there.
When I was there, nobody... I
remember my freshman year, my
roommate, who at the time was
David Carmona, who told me about
the school.
We were at... both students at
Cardinal Hayes High School, and
he had told me about the school.
That's how I found out about it.
He was from Costa Rica, so both
of us decided we were going to
audition together, and he was a
trumpet player, and he became my
roommate.
So we were both there at the
school, but I'm looking for
other Latinos.
And all I found was a few
Brazilians, you know, three or
four, no Puerto Ricans at all,
whether Nuyoricans or Puerto
Ricans from the island.
They started coming little by
little after I was there.
>> HINOJOSA: And now, actually,
Berklee School of Music, you
were saying that they have a
strong presence.
>> SANABRIA: The Latino population is the
highest population at the
school.
>> HINOJOSA: At the Berklee
School of Music.
>> SANABRIA: At the school.
Amazing, right?
>> HINOJOSA: So at one point...
so you have an amazing career,
Bobby, and you and I met each
other many, many, many years ago
when I was just a kid at WKCR.
>> SANABRIA: We were both kids.
>> HINOJOSA: When we were both
kids at WKCR radio.
And we... even at that station
we liked to bring in musicians
like you.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: At that point, I
have this great memory where you
guys were doing a jam, we were
putting it on live on WKCR, and,
I mean, I was a Mexican kid who
had come from Chicago.
There I was in New York.
You guys were jamming, and you
handed me a percussive
instrument, and you said, "Play
it."
And I was like, "I don't know
how to do this."
And you said, "Play it."
It's like... and then...
>> SANABRIA: I gave you a... it's called a
ganza, Brazilan shaker, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But the point of it
is is that to me it was like, at
that moment, you wanted to
inspire me, and in everyone's
sense, really, the sense that we
all carry rhythm within us.
We all carry, in fact, African
rhythms.
>> SANABRIA: Sure, sure.
99% of what we do in all of
Latin music has some tie to
Africa.
And that's something that should
be applauded.
It should be exuded.
And for our youth, especially
today, who... many of them lack
direction, because they don't
know who they are.
The one thing I always
emphasize, especially Latino
youth who are from Caribbean
roots, like Puerto Rico, like
the Dominican Republic, like
Puerto Rico...
>> HINOJOSA: Like Cuba.
>> SANABRIA: Like Cuba, like Colombia, et
cetera, like Venezuela, is that
we are multicultural.
People tend to be... Latinos
amongst themselves, we have
these innate predjudices that
we've inherited sometimes from
our parents, our grandparents,
and because of our colonial
history.
We say, "Well..." (speaking
Spanish)
"I'm from the mother country,
Spain."
I say, "But Spain is a
multicultural society, too.
It was ruled by the Muslims for
over 800 years.
Africa lives in Spain, too."
>> HINOJOSA: But a lot of times
people will hear... you've heard
it before.
You've heard people say, "Oh,
salsa music, it's just, you
know, noise, it's simple,
it's..." and in fact, Afro Cuban
music, you know, which became
salsa, at least in New York,
it's incredibly complex.
>> SANABRIA: Sure, sure, sure.
I mean, people that say things
like that, what they are telling
me right away is they don't know
anything about the music.
And it says more about them than
anything else.
They're either closed-minded,
they have some fear of the
culture, the music, or of the
people.
>> HINOJOSA: But explain how
complex it is.
And you now do Latin jazz big
band.
Explain, kind of, what it is to
have all of these different
instruments coming in at the
same time, different rhythms,
too.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right.
Well, the reason the music is so
exciting in and of itself is
because of this rhythmic
heritage that we inherited from
West and Central Africa.
And at the crux of it, at the
core of it, is a rhythm that we
call clave, which is the
keystone of the music.
And I could... discussing clave,
I could be here for hours
discussing it.
But it's very, very simple in
its essence.
It's almost like the simple
equation that Einstein used, E
equals...
>> HINOJOSA: Who, by the way, is
one of your heroes.
>> SANABRIA: Yeah, yeah.
E equals MC squared.
In this simple equation he
explains how energy and mass, et
cetera, and all that is all
interrelated.
Well, it's the same thing with
clave.
It's five attacks.
And from this (plays 3-2 clave
pattern) we get all of the
rhythms that we utilize today in
Afro Cuban music, in funk, in
rock and...
>> HINOJOSA: One-two-three,
two-three.
(imitates clave)
>> SANABRIA: You could explain it.
>> HINOJOSA: I don't know.
I just...
>> SANABRIA: But you could explain it this
way.
But what I tend to show... what
I try to show people, what I do
show people, is how this is
prevalent in everything that we
do.
It could be a song by Tito
Puente.
(singing in Spanish)
Or it could be a song from New
Orleans.
&
won't fail me now
&
won't fail me now, yeah
&
won't fail me now
&
won't fail me now, yeah
&
get busy
&
get busy
&
get... &
It's all interrelated.
It's part of the African
diaspora in this so-called New
World.
>> HINOJOSA: Why is it so
important for you, Bobby... I
mean you've had amazing success,
Grammy nominations, professor of
music.
It is about teaching and handing
this down for you.
That's an essential part of it.
>> SANABRIA: Sure, because it represents
us.
It represents... it's our ethos,
it's our being.
And what I tell young people
is... and this is a common
cliche, but it's very profound.
Once you know who you are and
where you came from, nobody
really can mess with you.
I mean, and cultural pride has
always been at the source of our
being as Latinos, and also our
music.
A good friend of mine,
colleague, one of the first DJs
in the hip hop world, he talks
about cultural medicine.
People are always looking for
medicine.
And for us, in our communities,
whether they're African
American, Latino, or even Anglo
American, music is our medicine.
And our music is so deep and
rich in its ties to the past
that we should celebrate that
and not lose it.
And that's...
>> HINOJOSA: So your doctors...
okay, if music is our medicine,
your doctors would be Mongo
Santamaria, Mario Bauza, Tito
Puente...
>> SANABRIA: All of those people.
>> HINOJOSA: ...Machito...
>> Carlos San...
>> SANABRIA: HINOJOSA: ...Dizzy
Gillespie...
>> SANABRIA: Carlos Santana.
All of these people to me are
priests.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, what was it
like when you were... because
many people have said that the
legacy of Tito Puente is sitting
on your shoulders now.
That's amazing, right?
But what was it like to be
playing with someone like Tito?
>> SANABRIA: Well, I worked with Tito many
times.
In fact, he's on my first album,
New York City Ache!, which has
become sort of a...
>> HINOJOSA: Which, by the way,
is my all-time favorite.
>> SANABRIA: Great, great.
That has kind of achieved, like,
cult status with a lot of
people.
We did a series of duets, me on
the drum set and Maestro Puente
on the timbales, something that
he never did, ever, with another
percussionist.
But Tito to me was like
somebody... you could describe
him almost as a Marvel Comic
superhero.
I mean, it was superhuman, the
things that he did.
First of all, he studied dance
when he was a kid, so he was an
accomplished dancer.
Then he became a pianist.
He studied piano for eight
years.
Then he gets in... his heroes
are James Cagney and Gene Krupa.
Then he serves his country with
honor in the Navy for three
years, and he's in the Battle of
Midway, the Battle of
Guadalcanal.
>> HINOJOSA: So my immediate
question is, how come there
isn't a biopic on Tito Puente,
and how come... I mean, one of
your concerns is that you said,
"When I find out that there are
kids who have never heard of
Tito Puente," your heart breaks
a little bit.
>> SANABRIA: Well, it's not only that.
Kids don't know who Duke
Ellington is, John Coltrane.
Some kids now today don't even
know who Carlos Santana is.
>> HINOJOSA: Although he did
play on American Idol.
That's a very big deal.
So probably a lot of people know
him now.
>> SANABRIA: That's all well and good, but
I don't think... what kids need
today to do, and it's very
easily accessible, especially
with the technology we have
today, all these people that you
just mentioned, they can look
them up on YouTube and readily
see them right away.
Like, when I do concerts all the
time, whether with my own groups
or with the groups that... the
two orchestras that I teach at
the New School University and at
the Manhattan School of Music...
>> HINOJOSA: In New York.
>> SANABRIA: They come up and say, "Mr.
Sanabria, I never heard this
music before.
My mother and father told me
about it, but I never paid any
attention.
Man, this is bad.
This is amazing.
Where can I hear more of this?"
>> SANABRIA: I says, "Man, start looking
up Machito, Tito Puente,
Santana, Duke Ellington, John
Coltrane, Bobby Sanabria, start
looking up on YouTube, and you
can see them right there in all
their majesty.
>> HINOJOSA: What you do is that
you took your strong, you know,
Latin basis, and you moved into
Latin jazz.
So what is the state of Latin
jazz right now?
Is it good?
>> SANABRIA: Well, the state of the music
is very, very good.
In fact, Latin jazz, when you
mention that term, would always
refer to Afro Cuban based music
done with jazz harmony and
arranging technique and
improvisation.
But now it's expanded, and I
think that we were at the focal
point of that with my nonet,
with that New York City Ache!
album where we started doing
rhythms outside of... besides
Cuban rhythms, but other rhythms
outside of that spectrum, like
Venezuelan rhythms, like cumbia
from Colombia.
We even did some plenas on there
from Puerto Rico.
So all of these young people
that are fervently studying jazz
now from Colombia, from
Venezuela, from other countries
in Latin America, are bringing
their folklore into the realm of
jazz.
And you're going to be seeing
and hearing more of that.
And I think...
>> HINOJOSA: But really, Bobby?
Becuase, you know, how many...
you know, I travel around the
country, and for me jazz is
my... again, kind of stemming
from my experience at WKCR radio
and meeting someone like you
when I was an impressionable
18-year-old, jazz is a part of
my life.
It's what's on my radio 24-7.
>> SANABRIA: Right, right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: My kids are hearing
it.
But it's not easy to find jazz
on the radio across this
country.
>> SANABRIA: Well, that's why people like
myself have been very vocal in
terms of... I myself believe
that we should have
congressional hearings on jazz
and how to make it part of the
curriculum of every public
school kid in the United States.
Once you get to the fifth grade
and you get into social studies
and all of a sudden you talk
about the Louisiana Purchase,
how come America's greatest art
form, and what best represents
us as a multicultural society,
and what best represents the
ethos of America, freedom within
a democratic society for the
individual, musically and
culturally, how come that's not
being taught in the public
schools?
Doesn't mean that everybody is
going to become a jazz tenor
player or anything, no.
But part of the history of this
country, it's part of the
curriculum.
So I'm very vocal about that,
and also we need to have more
radio stations playing the
music.
>> HINOJOSA: But your definition
of jazz is one that I really
like.
And I think you had said it's
freedom, revolutionary, and...
>> SANABRIA: Oh, I always say that jazz
has three elements to it--
freedom, truth, and revolution.
Without any of those elements,
you don't really have jazz.
Now, a lot of those elements are
found in a lot of other forms of
music that are rooted in jazz,
like rock, R&B, et cetera.
But no other art form exudes
those three elements more than
jazz.
>> HINOJOSA: So will we get
those congressional hearings?
Do you have an inside line into
the administration?
What are you doing to...
>> SANABRIA: Well, hopefully if they watch
this show.
I've been talking about this for
the last few years.
Some people, when I start
talking about it, they start
laughing.
And then they start realizing
that I'm serious.
And I go, "If we can have
congressional hearings on how
much a toilet seat costs for the
shuttle, we can have
congressional hearings on this
art form that so many people
from all over the world who
maybe don't like the politics of
this country, or even what this
country represents, but when it
gets to the word jazz, no matter
how much they may dislike this
country, as soon as you say
jazz, they start going 'Oh,
yes, yes, that music.'"
>> HINOJOSA: You mean when you
travel around the world?
>> SANABRIA: Yeah, yeah.
When we... the common ground has
always been, "We love jazz."
>> HINOJOSA: All right, so
Bobby, just to finish up here,
so there's a young person who's
watching this show who thinks
maybe they like music, not sure.
What should they do?
>> SANABRIA: : Well, first of all,
if they have a passion for music
like I started developing a
passion for it, they should seek
it out, and also get musical
instruction.
And I'm not just talking about
music.
If they have a passion for art,
for science, for history... I
have a passion for all of those
things, and I get to express
them all in the world of music,
especially in the jazz work that
I do.
But a teacher will always get
you to where you want to go ten
times faster than just you being
by yourself.
>> HINOJOSA: So the great words
of Bobby Sanabria-- go out,
study, learn.
And thank you, Bobby, for
sharing all of your music and
all of your lessons with us.
We appreciate it.
>> SANABRIA: Thanks for having me.
And just to reiterate the thing
about education, it worked for
Tito Puente, who went to the
Julliard School of Music on the
GI Bill when he got out of World
War II for three years from 1945
to 1948.
It worked for me.
I'm a proud graduate of the
Berklee College of Music, class
of 1979.
And it'll work for them also.
>> HINOJOSA: Thank you, Bobby.
>> SANABRIA: Thank you, Maria.
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