Transcript
Q: Judy Reyes, of course most people know you as Carla Espinosa, the hit actress from Scrubs. Welcome to our program!
A: Thank you for having me. It’s lovely to be here.
Q: So you said in the past that when you were young you knew that you wanted to be on television.
A: Mm-hmm.
Q: But I always wondered, is it because you felt visible or invisible, that you wanted to be on television?
A: That’s a really good question. I think I felt invisible for a good portion of my life, and I would disappear inside the television. I would watch TV all the time. I would watch-- Growing up in the Bronx, they used to have this thing when I was really little in the ‘70s, called Academy Awards Sunday. But what they would do is, before VCRs and all that stuff-- I’m really dating myself, now--
Q: Don’t worry. You look like you’re 25. It’s okay.
A: I know, honey. What’s the expression? Black don’t crack, it folds.
Q: There you go! Looking good!
A: For those of us with a little melanin-- But they had Academy Awards Sunday. They would air Academy Award-winning films on Sundays. And, I mean, it was polluted with commercials. But they would air, like, Singing in the Rain, West Side Story, Casablanca--
Q: -- old school--
A: -- old school movies that had won Academy Awards. And, you know, I would live for West Side Story, because, you know, it was a bunch of Latinos. Only later did I find out that--
Q: -- You were crushed, right? They were all Greek.
A: They were all Greek. Rita was the only real Latina. And then Natalie didn’t sing. It was like every couple of years, my heart was broken by this reality.
Q: Although I have to say, the first time I saw West Side Story, for me it was life-changing, because Maria existed, like my name, I existed.
A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Q: So was it kind of like “I’ve got to break in, because I want to put my face out there. I want to tell them what my life is really like,” or was it like “I want to be like them and be actors”?
A: Well no, it was, you know, “I want to be in there, in that world, you know, I want to do that, I want to be”-- You know, you get swept away in the romantic tales and the singing and the dancing and, you know, even in Singing in the Rain, and the Casablancasand even the silly movies, like Gilligan’s Island, Three’s Company-- I mean I was just an absolute TV junkie.
Q: And what would your parents say when you were in absolute-- I’m just wondering, because, of course, I have to think about my kids. [laughter]
A: You know, it’s a different time, though, first-generation American, immigrants, just coming back from the Dominican Republic. It was much better to have your daughter glued to the television set than outside in the street. So it was okay then. And my parents didn’t speak English, and they were, you know, poor to working class people, you know. So, it was comforting for them, because I was the least trouble. All I did was watch TV. You know, my other sister-- had to deal with my other sister, my older sister and the boyfriends, my twin sister trying to be like my older sister, and my baby sister, who was the baby and needed most of the attention. So I was a good kid. Disappearing into the TV is like Judy la Buena. You know, like, “Turn on the televisionand give her a couple of Twinkies. She’ll be fine.”
Q: Twinkies?
A: Twinkies--
Q: HoHos?
A: DingDongs.
Q: DingDongs-- [laughter]
A: Not HoHos, because I was Drakes Cakes, not the Hostess.
Q: We’re dating ourselves.
A: Yeah, I know.
Q: Alright, so you’re growing up in the city, you’re in the Bronx. I mean did you know that New York City was like the center of the acting world?
A: I had no idea.
Q: No concept?
A: And I had no idea-- I didn’t-- I mean the thing was a fantasy. It’s not something that was accessible to me when I was a child. My twin sister wanted to do it. So my twin sister picked up-- I think it was like a Daily News or something. And she was looking through the ads of, like, actors-- kids actors to take classes and be in, like, commercials and stuff. And she harassed my mother for a good long time to take her to this acting teacher, to take acting classes. She wanted to be on TV. She wanted to be on TV.
Q: And your mom would say--
A: My mom took her. My mom took her, and I went along to watch, because I’m-- you know, I never dared-- The thing about me and my twin sister, who is actually an actress now--
Q: -- I know, yeah--
A: -- but didn’t do it for a long time, we, by virtue of being twins, were just, you know, dressed the same, everything together, together, together. So she was always struggling to have her own separate identity. So I just went to watch, because it cost money. And, you know, it was a racket that this particular man had going on. Because, you know, he charges a lot of money for us, for poor people from the Bronx--
Q: -- oh sure, sure, sure--
A: -- and then puts them on stage, and has them do something silly, and says “You’re wonderful! You’re wonderful!”
Q: -- “Pay me some more money,” right?
A: Yes, exactly. Every time they come in.
Q: Oh my gosh.
A: And then I would hear him say the same exact-- give the same exact spiel to every parent and their little kid, you know.
Q: The interesting thing, though, is that-- so your mom, because your mom and dad are from the Dominican Republic, this is 1970s kind of New York City--
A: -- late ‘70s, yeah--
Q: -- I mean the Dominican population in New York, then, was really invisible.
A: Virtually invisible. It was more Puerto Ricans.
Q: It was a Puerto Rican city.
A: Yeah, especially in the Bronx, yeah.
Q: And I know, because my husband is Dominican, that there is a kind of-- and also, because I’m Mexican, there’s a kind of insularity that happens in these communities. What was it like, then, for you and your sister, you know, to want to break out, and to kind of saying “Mommy, we can go. We can do this.” How difficult was that?
A: You're not necessarily-- Well they’re the ones who taught us that you can.
Q: Ah.
A: Do you know what I mean? But when you tell them “I can,” when you start to break away from them, that’s when they start to hold you back, because, you know, you’re starting to branch out of your own culture, your own family, you’re pulling away. And that’s foreign to poor people who immigrate here to make life better for their kids. And then the dichotomy is losing your children, especially your daughters, you know what I mean?
Q: So you end up going to college for just a little bit at Hunter College in New York.
A: Yes.
Q: And then you basically said “Okay, I’m diving in.”
A: Well that’s when it happened for me, because--
Q: What is “it”? What happened?
A: The epiphany.
Q: There was an epiphany?
A: There was an epiphany--
Q: -- okay--
A: -- where, you know, growing up, going to high school, I took a film class in high school. And I played the lead in the movie in the film class in high school. And I had a blast, and just it was a natural thing for me. But again, it wasn’t something that somebody like me gets to do. My sister was in the drama club-- my twin sister was in the drama club in high school. I was in girls chorus. I have singing voice. And I was in the choir in church with my mom, and we would all do that. Then my mom has this friend Carmela, who goes to church. And she was taking classes at the Teatro Rodante Puertorriqueño, the Puerto Rican Traveling Theatre--
Q: -- which is a big deal in New York--
A: It was a big deal, especially at that time. Miriam Colón runs it, who’s, of course, a method actor-- huge. And she was taking classes in Spanish, and she had kids. And she was my mom’s age. And she was realizing her fantasy of taking acting classes, and she puts together this giant talent show at the church. And my younger sister gets together with her daughters to choreograph this dance number, and I do it with her. So we choreographed this dance number, and she-- you know, Carmela’s running this big, giant talent show. And I was like-- I mean I’m in college, now. I’m 18-19, and I’m helping these 16, 15 year olds put together. And then there’s a drama thing. And my twin sister and myself a La Casa de Bernarda Alba, but we do a scene--
Q: -- Wow. Are you kidding?
A: We do a scene from it.
Q: I mean that’s heavy-duty stuff.
A: The scene where Martirio leaves, you know. And she breaks the mother’s stick-- with one of our Dominican parishioners named Ada, I think, was her name. She was fantastic. So we rehearsed the scene, and we do the scene. I mean it’s a giant-- it’s one of those church talent shows that lasts, like, four hours, you know.
Q: -- [laughter] days.
A: Yes, it’s endless. And, you know, in the middle, people are, like, going to the “pernil.”
Q: And there’s noise going on--
A: -- noise, everything’s going on, chairs are moving. And I do-- and I sing-- and I do a singing number. So I’m doing the triple threat there.
Q: You're dancing, you're singing, you're acting.
A: Yeah, and, you know, my mom is a singer, and, you know, my mother does this false humility thing, where-- I mean she’s the singer. And people go “Clara! Canta, Clara!” “No, no, no.” [starts singing in Spanish] She would just break out into song. She does it every time. So it’s a “runs in the family” kind of thing. And one of the things that my mom used to do to feed my older sister in Santo Domingo before she came, she would-- she would perform in a radio show contest, sing a song, win. The prize was a bottle of Johnny Walker White Label. She’d sell it, and get the food for the week.
Q: So essentially, even though you were in this immigrant family, in the Bronx, in New York City, there was a part of your family background that kind of led to this moment epiphany, which is in the church. And you basically say what, “I want to do this”?
A: Yeah, so yeah. So what happens, we perform. We do the-- We worked so hard at it. I mean we perfected it.
Q: You were professionals.
A: Everybody else is, like, doing these cheesy, you know, church things. But I sang the crap out of my song. And we got a standing ovation for our scene. And we rocked our little dance number, because we rehearsed it and rehearsed it and rehearsed it. And I got home, and I’m buzzing. I can’t-- I can’t think, I can’t breathe-- Because all of a sudden, I know-- I mean I had started college, I had no declared major. And I know. And I go to my mother, and I knock on my mother’s door. And I’m almost hyperventilating, because I know, now-- I know what I want to do with my life. And I go “Mommy, yo se lo que va hacer con mi vida,” “I know what I want to do with my life.” “Que fue mi hija?” “I’m going to be an actress.” [laughter] And she goes “Ay, Judy, please!”
Q: Say that again.
A: She goes “Ay, Judy, please! No, no, no, you go to school. You be a social worker….you go to get a”--
Q: But here’s what I want to understand, because there are lots of young people who have this moment, this epiphany. But then you kind of get out into the real world, and as a Latina actress, you know, again, you know, 1980s now, there wasn’t a lot of space out there. I mean you started going to auditions, and you started getting told no a lot, right?
A: No.
Q: You didn’t go to auditions?
A: No, I didn’t—I didn’t hear “no” until the first-- See my mom laughs in my face, I’ll tell you. She tells me “Please, don’t be ridiculous.” And I got so wounded and so enraged that she doesn’t-- she doesn’t understand, because she’s not inside me. She’s not inside me. She doesn’t understand. And she’s like-- Well I said “Well I’m going to do it,” and I slammed the door to my bedroom, and I never looked back.
Q: You end up doing some amazing theater work at the Labyrinth Theatre in New York City.
A: Yeah, yeah. And after that, everything starts to fall into place.
Q: So it wasn’t hard for you?
A: It was a lot of work. It just didn’t feel hard, because I loved every minute of it. So in the beginning, I met my manager in a restaurant that I was working in. I took time off from school, and then I never went back. But then I did have, after, like, the minute I met my manager, like a month later, I booked two jobs back-to-back.
Q: You were working, in fact, doing things likeLaw and Order, you did NYPD--
A: The first thing I did, I booked a lead in a feature film with Sam Rockwell, and I booked a play. And then I came back, and I did an episodic in Vancouver. And then I came back, and I did Law and Order. And then nothing happens for two years.
Q: At what point do you decide that you have to leave New York? And what does it mean to you, to say “I’m leaving New York and I’m going to Hollywood”?
A: Well the first time I went, I went for a pilot season upon my manager’s recommendation. And it was rather successful. I got very, very good response. But I needed an agent. So I come back, and we make a commitment to go back to live there. Now that was many years ago. I moved to L.A. And I hated it.
Q: You hated it?
A: Oh, I hated it with a passion. I couldn’t take it.
Q: You did a lot of pilots. Many of them were turned down.
A: Yeah. But when I went there, I got an agent. And then nine months later, I booked a pilot. And it was in Toronto, and I came back to New York.
Q: So let me ask you, so no one was saying things to you, like, you know, “You’re too Latina,” or “You’re too street,” or “You’re too this”--
A: -- too dark. And in Los Angeles, the first time that I moved over there, the Latino-- of course, no Dominicans, very few, if any, maybe the friends that I knew-- so too dark-skinned, my hair was wildly, wildly curly-- it’s blown out right now. So I don’t look Mexican enough, which is what their Latino is. And then, when they want a Latino, Rosie Perez was the Latina at the time. So everything I did, they wanted me to do this. [imitating Rosie Perez]
Q: Are you serious?
A: It was all about, you know, doing the Rosie thing.
Q: What would they say? They would actually say--
A: “Could you”-- yeah, “Could you do a little bit more Rosie,” you know. Urban. I did-- The first TV pilot that I did was something called Jackass Junior High, later changed to Jackson Junior High. And it was a sitcom, not what I do now, which is a single camera, but it was a sitcom in front of a studio audience. And I played Conchita--
Q: -- Was that killing you?
A: -- the high school teacher. But I taught history. But it didn’t get picked up, thankfully. Because when I actually saw the tape of the pilot, every time the camera-- I had gotten so used to filling that prototype. You know, like, you know you’ve made it when you see the breakdown for actors and auditions, and it says “Looking for a Judy Reyes prototype.” So now they’re looking for somebody to be like you. But at that time, it was a Rosie Perez. It’s very specific. But every time the camera was on me, I was doing this when I was talking. [Moves head side to side]
Q: You’re kidding me!
A: And I couldn’t watch myself. I was, like, “Oh! Stop the moving of the head!” And I told the director, “Why didn’t you tell me?” And he’s like “I don’t see what’s wrong with it.” No you don’t, because that’s what they wanted.
Q: You end up going to audition for Scrubs. You probably thought--
A: I auditioned for Scrubs-- I moved back to New York.
Q: You were over it?
A: I didn’t live in L.A. any more. I was like “I’m not happy here.” You can’t generate work if you don’t feel confident, if you don’t feel safe in your environment as an actor, I don’t think. And, you know, I’m too heavy, too short, too dark, too unspecific. My manager, at one point, had asked me if I wouldn’t mind changing my last name.
Q: Oh my God.
A: And I was, like, “No.”
Q: To what?
A: Well, you know, to Kings, because Reyes means Kings in English.
Q: Judy Kings?
A: Judy Kings, because, you know, I could be mixed.
Q: When you confront this kind of stereotype, I mean one of the things about Scrubs, that I think has got you the cult audience that you have, is that you do take on these issues, like racism, you took on bilingualism, you took on postpartum depression. Your husband is African-American, you’re Dominican, J.D. is kissing a black woman on television. You’ve said that comedy kind of gives you an opportunity to open those doors. Is that kind of-- I mean for you, how meaningful is that, to be able to go there?
A: This comedy does. And you have to give so much credit to Bill Lawrence, who’s the writer, creator and show runner, the way he casts the program, the cast itself. And, you know, we shoot on location in an actual abandoned hospital, not in a studio. So everything is there. All the writers are there, the editors are there, our sound is there, construction is there, technicians are there. Our production office is there, all our dressing rooms are there. So we’re around each other all the time. So they experience our reality, and how we relate to each other.
Q: Why do you think it’s become such a hit, though, from your perspective, I mean? I can tell you from the outside, but from your perspective?
A: From my perspective? Because of everything that you said, because we don’t shy away from those things that make life ironic, hilarious and tragic at the same time. Because you can’t have humor without tragedy; you can’t have joy without sadness. You have to be able to laugh in order to be able to cry, and vice-versa.
Q: Well speaking of laughing and crying at the same time, I know this is one of the favorite stories that you like to talk about. It’s the one episode when you had broken your pelvis, which you had slipped in the bathtub?
A: I was coming out-- I have a steam shower, I’d taken the carpets out.
Q: Oh, this is my greatest fear.
A: And I had taken the carpets out, and I took an early steam before my call time. I was like “Oh, it’s still early. I’m going to take a steam.” And I came out, and it’s just one of those freak things, where you just fall a certain way. And I fell hard, right on this side. And something happened. And I had also hit my head, which I didn’t realize.
Q: And you were in the middle of shooting--
A: We were shooting a different episode, but we were about to get ready to shoot our musical, which we were--
Q: -- your big deal musical. This is, like, everybody talks about the musical on Scrubs.
A: Yeah, yeah.
Q: So what happened? What do you do?
A: Well I had gone back to sleep, because I was early. And then I wake up, and I look at the clock. I was like “Oh, I got to be to work in 15 minutes. I’m late!” And I get up, and I realize I’m limping. And “Oh, what’s wrong with my leg?” And you know how sometimes, you know, you sleep badly on your arm(?) and pop it?
Q: Yeah.
A: That’s what I was trying to do to my leg, but it wouldn’t pop. And my dog was looking at me like I’m crazy. He’s like this. And I’m going into my closet, and I was like “What is wrong with my leg? I don’t understand.” And, I mean, it’s getting progressively worse as I’m trying to rush. My dog is following me everywhere, like “This woman doesn’t realize what happened to her.” I mean it’s getting to the point where, at every traffic light, I have to put the car in park, because my leg, it hurts to keep my leg on it. And I put the visor down, and I was like-- My dog, who usually rides behind me on the passenger seat, has sat next to me.
Q: But I have to ask you, you end up going-- [simultaneous conversation] There are things that happen in television, the tricks of the trade. And one of the tricks is that, for that musical, you are actually sitting down.
A: I had to. Well what happened--
Q: They were shooting you sitting down.
A: But let me just let you know, that the environment and the people and the production of Scrubs is such, where they took an early hiatus, pushed back the shoot a week, to give me enough time to recover and come back.
Q: We like this. This is nice.
A: This is an amazing place, an amazing group of people to work. And it’s one of the reasons, one of all the other things that makes the show successful-- And rearranged everything, so that anything that you see me doing that’s not the dance is me sitting down or leaning on things. And I had crutches-- I mean I was in surgery the next morning, in the hospital for one week, home for another, and then crutches for another week. And then, at the very end of the month, after they shot everything-- because it turned out that it was a much more complicated show to shoot than anybody anticipated. And then, at the very end, just before the Christmas holiday, I got to do my dance number. Because that’s the very first thing I said when Sarah Chalke called me at the hospital--
Q: -- “I want to dance!”
A: -- I was like “My tango! I’m not going to do my tango!”
Q: Now, as Scrubs basically is a thing of the past in your life, what happens next? I mean you made it as moving into Hollywood and breaking through into television. Now, as a Latina who has made it, where do you go? What’s the power that you have, and how do you want to use it?
A: I want to produce, and I’m going to produce.
Q: How difficult is it? I mean I hear a lot of people say “I want to produce!”
A: It’s really frickin’ hard.
Q: It’s hard.
A: Because you still-- you use-- you use the leverage that you have from the success that you do have, and you try to parlay that into continuing to be taken seriously.
Q: But essentially, you’re still going to people and saying “Give me some money. Support me on this project.”
A: Yes, “Here’s this project. Give me some money.” And then you’re saying-- You know, they’re telling you all the reason why it won’t make money, and who’s the star? And who are you going to get? I mean I want to produce things that I want to be in.
Q: And will they say that to you?
A: Oh sure.
Q: Like, “So who’s the star?”
A: Yeah.
Q: And will they say--
A: -- Or “Can you get him? Can you get him?” I was like “Well if I could get him, I wouldn’t need you.” And then you have to work on getting other people interested in creating a project.
Q: How do you handle that? I mean here you are, you know, I mean, how do you find that place to own that power to be in those rooms, in those negotiations?
A: Well I’m working on it, because so many years, I’ve just worked on. And I have this discussion with a friend of mine all the time, where, you know, being the artist, you surrender the business part of your career to your representatives. And you realize that they don’t really work that hard. So I’m learning to become the businesswoman now. And this is what I’m going to be-- This is where I’m going to start to focus on.
Q: And you have said that you want to do productions that are very Latino-heavy.
A: Mm-hmm.
Q: And, of course, the second that I wrote that down, I said “How much of a risk is it for you to be saying ‘I want to do productions that focus on Latino issues’?”
A: Huge. Yeah, well, I mean, of course people are going to be retreating from the “Latino issue” thing. It’s not Latino issues, it’s Latino people, but productions with Latinos in them.
Q: Do you feel like in Hollywood, given the kind of anti-immigrant sentiment that exists right now, are you feeling it in Hollywood?
A: I think you do, I think you do. I mean at the same time, it’s fashionable to be Latino in Hollywood. It’s just that, you know, it’s a handful of people. And it’s going to be in the hands of that handful of people to, you know, expand on the idea of being Latino, you know what I’m saying? It’s not--
Q: Give us some depth as a people.
A: But give us some depth as a people and you know some regular understanding.Like Ithink you have to understand there is a reason why films like Y Tú Mamá También and like in Pan’s Labyrinth, do make a lot of money. Because consider the fact that the films like-- what should I use as an example?-- like El Norteor Maria Full of Grace, which are fine, fine films, but they are-- they do-- they’re made-- Well, white audiences are the ones that go see those films, because that’s how they understand Latinos. Do you know what I mean? Latinos and their basic immigrant experience and, let’s say, and their socio-economic status, if you’re going to look at it from a financial perspective, don’t want to spend their hard-earned money reliving that experience.
Q: Which is very traumatic.
A: Right, which is terribly traumatic. They’re going to spend their money, you know, going to see an action film or something like that. And they want to see themselves reflected in that reality, or a love story, you know.
Q: So what’s your dream or vision of, like, okay, if you could get the money right now to do your favorite project right now, it would be what?
A: Wow, that’s a fantastic idea.
Q: I know, but just dream for a second.
A: Dream for a second? I would like to, you know, recreate the life of, like, you know, wonderful Latina singers, you know, like—or their, you know, como se llama? Montes. Maria Montes.
Q: Oh, okay. Maria Montes.
A: She had a wonderful career. Let’s find out what her history is, and let’s make a movie out of that. I know my friend Lauren Veles is still struggling to do a film on the life of La Lupe--
Q: -- which was just made into--
A: -- No, a bio-pic. I would love to do some kind of a bio-pic thing, where I get to sing and perform, do you know what I'm saying? A musical, that’s my dream you know, to do some kind of a musical, you know, something “Dream Girls-ish” for my career, in terms of performance.
Q: Because that way, then we can all have the epiphany that Judy Reyes has actually made it. Thank you so much for joining us on this show, Judy.
A: Thank you.
Q: Good luck, and make that film. We’ll be watching.
A: I will. Thank you.
END
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