Journalist Alfredo Corchado

>> HINOJOSA: Drug-related

killings continue at an alarming

rate throughout Mexico, and the

violence is now spilling across

the border into the United

States.

Mexico Bureau Chief for the

Dallas Morning News Alfredo

Corchado.

I'm Maria Hinojosa.

This is One on One.

Alfredo Corchado, you are the

Mexico Bureau Chief for the

Dallas Morning News.

As such, you spend a lot of your

time covering drug dealers, the

traficantes, the narcos, the

kidnappings.

This was not the Mexico that you

would have been reporting on 20

years ago.

It's a whole new Mexico.

>> CORCHADO: Well, I actually came to

Mexico, and my real passion back

then was covering immigration,

covering the US-Mexico

relations.

And when I left Mexico in 2000,

I left Mexico for Washington,

because I thought the story had

died in Mexico, you know?

>> HINOJOSA: The immigration

story.

>> CORCHADO: The immigration story, but

also, you know, Mexico now had

democracy in the year 2000.

And so I figured that maybe the

story was going to be Washington

and Mexico City.

So I moved to Washington.

Three years later, September 11

comes around, there's no Mexico

story.

I mean, there's no real US

policy to Mexico.

And I returned to Mexico, and my

first assignment was to cover

the women of Juarez-- you know,

who was killing the women of

Juarez?

>> HINOJOSA: And right now we're

talking about, in terms of the

women who have been murdered in

the city of Juarez, which is on

the Mexico side of the border...

>> CORCHADO: Right, right across El Paso,

Texas.

>> HINOJOSA: Right across.

And we're talking about 400-plus

women now?

>> CORCHADO: I mean, some estimates have

it as over 300, some say 400.

Most of them... I mean, the vast

majority of the cases have never

been solved, just like, you

know, most crimes in Mexico.

And it was then that I realized,

"Wow," you know, "this is a

different Mexico."

>> HINOJOSA: So that was a time

span of what, like, maybe five

years?

>> CORCHADO: No, a span in time of three

years.

I mean, from 2000 to 2003.

And what happened, I think, is

the PRI... I mean, you had a

government for 71 years, a

one-party rule, where the

system, the security, if you

will, was more preoccupied with

protecting the system,

protecting the PRI, and not

really looking after the welfare

of the citizens.

>> HINOJOSA: And the PRI, just

so people know, it's the

Revolutionary Institutionalized

Party, which was the dominant

party for...

>> CORCHADO: 71 years.

>> HINOJOSA: 71 years.

>> CORCHADO: I mean, authoritarian,

semi-authoritarian rule.

And so that's what happened.

I mean, the institutions did not

work anymore, did not function

anymore.

And when I went back to Mexico,

I had colleagues who would joke

and say, "You're coming back for

la nota roja," you know, the

cirme story, et cetera.

But no, to me it was really the

story of a political transition.

It was Mexico in evolution.

And it's been, in many ways,

kind of the massacre of Mexico,

you know?

A bloody, necessary, but

obviously very, very painful

transition.

>> HINOJOSA: Wow, I've never

heard it described like that,

the massacre of Mexico.

So when people... when you hear

this thrown out, that Mexico

could be a failed state, that

the Mexican government could,

you know, somehow implode, when

you hear things, are you saying,

"Never happen," or are you

thinking, "We have to really

talk about that seriously"?

>> CORCHADO: I mean, I don't think it's

there.

I mean, I do think it can

happen.

But if there's anything that...

I don't even want to use the

word "positive."

I mean, if there's anything

that's semi-good about this it's

that at least both governments

are now dealing with reality,

and not the finger pointing that

we've seen.

>> HINOJOSA: Well, there was a

big moment when... with Hillary

Clinton going down as Secretary

of State where she basically

says, "We have a responsibility

in this."

>> CORCHADO: Right, right.

>> HINOJOSA: In Mexico, how was

that taken, after years of

essentially the Bush

administration saying... barely

dealing with it, saying, "It's

your problem," when Hillary

Clinton, Secretary of State

Hillary Clinton, goes down there

and says, "We have to look at

our drug usage..." and I don't

remember if she brought up the

issue of guns.

>> CORCHADO: Yes.

Yes, she did.

>> HINOJOSA: What... how did

that go over in Mexico, when you

have the United States saying,

"We bear some responsibility

here"?

>> CORCHADO: It was like, you know,

(speaking Spanish), you know,

finally.

>> HINOJOSA: Really?

>> CORCHADO: Finally.

Because, I mean, what we're

seeing in Mexico today is

nothing different than what

we've seen or experienced in

Bolivia, Peru, Colombia.

I mean, it's a very old story.

But I think finally the

Americans are realizing that,

"Wait a minute, we are part of

the problem."

And it took Mexico... I mean, it

took the issue to come to

America's, you know, doorsteps

for the US goverment to finally

realize this is about

coresponsibility.

I mean, it takes two of you.

>> HINOJOSA: Do you... when you

hear people talking about this

kind of... I don't know if I've

heard the word flood, but, you

know, the violence creeping over

the border, coming into the

United States, and I've heard

some people say, "You know what?

Too alarmist.

May have happened here or

there."

As someone who works on this

issue all the time, is it true?

Are we seeing a crossover of

this violence from Mexico into

the United States?

>> CORCHADO: It's a spillover, but I think

that maybe some of the reports

have been a little bit

overexaggerated, you know, "a

massive spillover of violence."

I think the spillover up to now

has been much more of people

leaving one side, you know?

I think as a journalist, one of

the things that I'm concerned

about is how we take cities like

Ciudad Juarez or Tijuana, we

say, "the Juaraz cartel," or

"the Tijuana cartel," or "the

Gulf cartel," when in reality,

because it's such a

transnational situation, it

should be called the El

Paso-Juarez cartel, or the

Dallas-Gulf cartel.

>> HINOJOSA: Really?

This is the first time

that I'm hearing that.

>> CORCHADO: Or the LA-Tijuana cartel.

Because there is a spillover,

not necessarily always about

violence, but corruption, you

know, people fleeing one side,

going to the other side.

There is an impact on both

sides.

>> HINOJOSA: And you have

uncovered a lot of these

stories.

I mean, you uncovered a big

story that showed that basically

American officials were involved

with some shady business around

not only immigration, but also

trafficking.

>> CORCHADO: Right.

I mean, and that's become more

and more common, you know, on

the US side.

I mean, again, it takes two to

tango.

You can't... you know, drugs

don't just magically leave

Mexico, and then hola, they're

in the US.

I mean, you're going to have to

pay some people off.

>> HINOJOSA: So you... honestly,

Alfredo, I have such respect for

you, because as a fellow

journalist... and I do a lot of

stuff, but wanting to go into

deep investigative reporting

about drug cartels might not be

the thing that I'd like to be

spending my time on.

And yet that's what you have to

do.

>> CORCHADO: And it's... I mean, when I

became a journalist, I... one of

the promises I made to my

parents was that I would never

cover drug trafficking.

>> HINOJOSA: Are you kidding me?

You told that to your parents?

>> CORCHADO: Well, my parents had a small

restaurant right in... south of

El Paso, two, three blocks from

the border.

And at one point there was a

person who had offered my father

money to store merchandise, you

know, overnight.

And the money was, like,

something like $3,000 a month,

you know, which was incredible.

When... we had just arrived in

El Paso.

We didn't really know the

dynamics.

And when we finally found out

that this guy was talking about

drugs-- cocaine, marijuana-- he

said, "There is a price.

If the authorities find out,"

you know, "we won't take it out

on you, we'll take it out on

your sons or your daughters."

>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my gosh.

>> CORCHADO: And so from that point on,

when I told my dad, I said, "I

want to become a journalist," he

says, "Just never cover drug

trafficking."

And for the longest time, I did

follow that advice, not just

because of my father, but

because I really wasn't that

interested in the issue.

But again, it's become the kind

of issue that no one, I mean, no

one, whether you're a journalist

or a cop or a worker in Mexico,

you can't ignore the issue

anymore, because it is

threatening, I think, the very

stability of the country.

>> HINOJOSA: Well, in fact, as a

journalist, journalists in

Mexico have been told by their

editors, "We are not going to

cover the drug trafficking

story.

We're not going to cover it."

So what does that mean for you,

Alfredo?

>> CORCHADO: It... I mean, I have a lot of

friends, you know, some of whom

are journalists.

And it means, I guess a sense of

moral responsibility.

Because oftentimes I will get

calls from journalists who I do

know well, who I trust, who will

say, "Look, we can't print this,

but here's what's going on."

And so there is a sense of, you

know, you have to find a way to

do it.

>> HINOJOSA: But you're like the

last bastion.

>> CORCHADO: Right, the last bastion of

hope, especially for the border,

for the border region.

There's so much censorship along

the US-Mexico border that... and

it's not just a censorship

because of the drug cartels, but

also because, obviously, the

industry's going through some

hard times, they're cutting back

on bureaus, so there is a void

of information.

You know, oftentimes you go to a

place like Ciudad Juarez, and

people kind of gravitate to the

mercados, you know, and listen

to people playing corridos, and

maybe they'll get a little tip

of what's going on in the

neighborhood-- you know, who

killed who last night and why.

>> HINOJOSA: That's how... so

wait a second.

So you're telling me that right

now there may occur killings,

and people can't read about it

in the newspaper, so they go to

the market to maybe get a sense

of what the gossip is about what

the murder was about?

>> CORCHADO: What the gossip is, either

from Norteno groups or from the

local merchant or someone else,

you know?

>> HINOJOSA: Just so we are

clear, Norteno groups play

music, a style called Norteno,

where it's basically a ballad,

and they're telling stories.

>> CORCHADO: Or Narcocorrido, that comes

from the local... you know,

local flavor, the local news.

It's like the local choir, you

know?

And yes, I mean, that is what's

happening.

There's so much control over

news that... and some cartels

are very sophisticated about

that.

I mean, they will buy you... you

know, they will buy a

spokesperson, they will hire a

spokesperson, who will actually

call newspapers every day.

I mean, his or her job is to

call the local editors, the

local news directors, and say,

"This story cannot run

tomorrow."

Or "If it runs tomorrow it must

be inside."

>> HINOJOSA: Okay, wait, wait,

wait.

So you're saying that you

have... the cartel is at such a

level of sophistication now that

it's run essentially like a

corporation, where they've got

public spokespeople who used to

be journalists who have now been

bought off?

>> CORCHADO: Absolutely.

>> HINOJOSA: I mean, that just

sounds crazy.

You've got... you've got

journalists who are acting as

spokespeople for cartels?

>> CORCHADO: Oh, it's... you know, it's

the old saying, (speaking

Spanish), you take the money or

you take the lead.

And a lot of of people, I mean,

don't have that choice.

I mean, it's not a real easy

choice, you know?

>> HINOJOSA: And what other ways

do you see kind of... I mean,

again, because you're so deep

inside this kind of reporting,

and we don't really hear it so

much on this side of the border,

when we're talking about

cartels, you know, people have

this image of kind of, you know,

I guess the Pablo Escobar

cartel, kind of ragtag, you

know, making a lot of money, but

not so sophisticated.

When you're talking about a drug

cartel in Mexico, what exactly

are we talking about?

You know, can you compare it to

a corporation?

>> CORCHADO: You can compare it to a

corporation, because they think

very... you know, you have the

people who are in charge of

pushing drugs across the US, you

have people who are in charge of

killing, (speaking Spanish), you

know, the killers.

And then you have the public

relations side-- you know, the

people who will... information

is very, very critical.

And so you need someone who's

going to make sure that the

message gets out, and that the

right message gets out.

>> HINOJOSA: What could possibly

be the right message for a

cartel on a given day?

>> CORCHADO: The right message is, "We are

the most violent cartel, and we

are the bosses, and we control

the city, we control the mayor,

and our rules are the rules,"

you know?

>> HINOJOSA: So they'll actually

put some of their spokespeople

to say, "Make it clear that we

control the mayor"?

>> CORCHADO: Or not necessarily control

the mayor, but for example, you

know, there's a story tomorrow

that... "We want a story about

how there's so much military

abuse, and it has to be on the

front page."

Because they're savvy enough to

know that in Washington people

look at that very closely, you

know, military abuse.

And I'm not saying that all

these cases are false.

I mean, there are some

legitimate complaints.

>> HINOJOSA: Right, but are you

saying that there are editors

who will then say, "Okay, we're

going to put this on the front

page"?

>> CORCHADO: Oftentimes they have no

choice.

>> HINOJOSA: They have no

choice?

>> CORCHADO: They have no choice.

>> HINOJOSA: If they don't put

this story on the front page?

>> CORCHADO: There are ramifications.

They may kidnap you, they may

kidnap your daughter, they may

bomb your building, they may

kill your reporter, they may

kill your editor.

>> HINOJOSA: How can you

possibly have a functioning

commmunity of journalists in

that kind of a situation?

>> CORCHADO: I mean, it's very difficult.

It is very... I mean, that's why

today I think Mexico is the most

dangerous place in the Americas

to do journalism.

Especially along the US-Mexico

border.

>> HINOJOSA: That's where you

are, Alfredo.

>> CORCHADO: Right.

>> HINOJOSA: That's what you do.

So...

>> CORCHADO: And that's why I left for a

year.

>> HINOJOSA: And that's why you

left and came to Boston for a

year.

How much do you worry about... I

mean, you know, as journalists,

we're kind of, like... we're

doing our job, we're doing our

thing.

It's not like you're always

looking over your shoulder.

But are you looking over your

shoulder?

>> CORCHADO: Well, not here.

Not in Cambridge.

But it is something that I worry

about a lot, and I don't think

there's a day that goes by

nowadays that I don't think

about that, and about how much

deeper do I want to get, you

know, back into... because

look-- in the end, being six

feet underground, it's not going

to help anyone.

So you have to find a way to do

the story and be able to live

another day to tell the next

story.

>> HINOJOSA: So how do you do

it?

I mean, again, when I'm

thinking, like, "Okay, I'm a

journalist, I've done

investigative work, I do it all

the time."

I wouldn't know where to begin

in terms of doing an

investigative piece on

narcotraffics, or the cartels.

I mean, who do you call?

How do you do that kind of

reporting?

>> CORCHADO: A lot of sourcing.

I mean, it's a lot of sourcing.

>> HINOJOSA: But a lot of

sourcing means you spend a lot

of time developing

relationships.

>> CORCHADO: Developing relationships with

the right people.

And that's really the key, is

who's the right people?

>> HINOJOSA: Who can you trust?

>> CORCHADO: How many people, you know,

will be happy to take you and

have you killed, or have you

disappear?

But, you know, I want to stress

that what we go through as

foreign correspondents, American

foreign correspondents, is

nothing compared to what our

Mexican colleagues go through.

I mean, they're stuck there.

They have to live that, you

know, day by day.

We have the luxury of coming in,

parachuting in, and leaving.

I'm not saying it's not

difficult, but, I mean, it is, I

think, a big, big difference in

terms of security, personal

security.

>> HINOJOSA: So why do you keep

doing it, Alfredo?

I mean, you're at the level in

your career where you could say

to your editors, "You know what?

Base me in who knows where, but

not Mexico City."

>> CORCHADO: I've asked that question

myself, you know, I think for

the past 300-something, 60 days.

I don't really have a clear

answer.

I mean, I do have... feel a huge

responsibility.

And I think as a foreign

correspondent there's no way

that you can overlook this

story.

Can you do things differently?

I mean, because, I mean, I go

back a lot now, and I think,

"Okay, did I really have to go

that extra mile for that story?

Will I do it again?"

And I don't think I will.

And I also think that it's time

for us as journalists to also

look at the US side-- you know,

what's happening here.

And that's... I think that's

really the most overlooked

story, the story that we haven't

really covered.

>> HINOJOSA: Which is American

drug consumption, the American

gun business, essentially.

What other part of the story?

>> CORCHADO: Corruption on the US side.

>> HINOJOSA: Because it's very

easy to look at corruption in

Mexico, but it's hard to

actually see corruption

happening here.

>> CORCHADO: It's very easy to blame, and

not really look at yourself.

And again, you know, that, I

think, is the good part of the

story, is that finally both

societies are looking deeply,

you know, into themselves.

I mean, Mexicans can't point the

finger anymore at the United

States and say, "The consumption

is in the US."

I mean, it's now in Monterey,

it's in Mexico City, it's in

Ciudad Juarez, you know?

Guadalajara, and on and on and

on.

It's... the fight in Mexico

today is no longer just about

controlling distribution routes

to the US, but also about

controlling communities.

You know, who sells who to your

local community.

>> HINOJOSA: All right, so given

all of this, and given the fact

that there's a relationship

between these two counties that

is now acknowledged, there has

been a bit of an opening on a

topic that was... is hugely

controversial, which is the

legalization of drugs.

And in Mexico, there has been

increasing dialogue about this.

What do you think about that,

when you hear that?

Do you think if we legalized it

the cartels would just

disappear, or if we legalize it

that's just going to empower

them even more?

I mean, they'll have money,

they'll be something legal.

>> CORCHADO: I mean, I think it'll help,

but I don't think legalization

in the end is really the answer.

I mean, it'll help both sides.

I think the root cause,

especially for Mexico, is lack

of institutions.

I mean, lack of rule of law,

impunity, a very weak judicial

system.

And until Mexico addresses

that... and that may take years.

I mean, we're not talking about,

you know, Calderon's last three

years, President Calderon of

Mexico.

We're talking about decades.

It's going to take a long time,

because if it's not drugs today,

it might be something else

tomorrow.

>> HINOJOSA: Do you feel like in

Mexico there is a will for that?

I mean, certainly among the

population there's a will to

want to resolve this.

But is there a will to say,

"This really means we've got to

change our institutions, our

judicial system, we've got to

work on this"?

Is there that kind of a will?

>> CORCHADO: I've been, you know, looking

very closely at Calderon's

approval ratings.

And they still hover in the

65-60%, which tells me maybe

that people do want him to do

what he's doing.

But that's, I think, the real

key question, is how long will

this will last?

That, I think, will really tell

us a lot about Mexican will--

how much can they tolerate?

You know, three years into

Calderon's term, more than

11,000 people have been killed.

And it's not just

narcotrafficking.

I mean, there's a lot of

innocent civilians who are

being...

>> HINOJOSA: Which is actually

the question I was going to ask

you.

I mean, there were some

journalists who I spoke to who

said, "You know, there is a lot

of violence, but when you're

talking about drug violence,

it's very specific.

It's not just random people

getting caught in the crossfire,

it's very specific violence that

is directed by the cartels--

'You kill my enemy, my enemy,

you know, then comes back.'"

Is it like that, or is it that

anyone, essentially, can...

>> CORCHADO: I think for the most part it

is like that.

But inevitably you're going to

have innocent people caught in

the crossfire.

And not just Mexicans-- I mean,

Americans too, especially along

the US-Mexico border.

You've had people from El Paso,

young... you know, young kids

recently, who were killed.

I mean, and the other thing

that's also worrisome is that I

think it's misleading to call

this a drug war, because we

haven't really seen drug cartels

targeting specifically the

military.

There have been some instances,

but it's not really an all-out

assault between, you know, the

government troops and cartels,

which might suggest that the

cartels still want to have a

pact with the government.

You know, they don't really want

to go all out.

I think when it comes... you

know, when it goes all out, it's

going to get a lot bloodier.

>> HINOJOSA: But we're talking

about how many federal troops

now have been mobilized with

Calderon?

>> CORCHADO: In Ciudad Juarez alone, about

10,000 troops there.

Nationwide, more... I mean, I've

heard more than 40,000, more

than 60,000 troops.

>> HINOJOSA: Okay, and when you

look at these troops, Alfredo,

do you say, "They're going to do

the right thing," or do you look

at them and say, "How many of

them are going to get bought

off?"

>> CORCHADO: And how long before they get

bought off?

I mean, if you have... whenever

you have the Mexican military

take over towns, there's always

the initial reaction, which is

like a parade, you know?

The troops are going into the

city, and people are waving,

people feel safe for a few days.

And then either it's the

cartels' guerilla war tactics,

or the cooption, the corruption

that takes place, but sooner or

later, I mean, a lot of

people... I mean, business goes

back to usual.

Ciudad Juarez, for example.

Troops come in in March, the

murder rate goes down

dramatically from ten to one.

Here we are, it's back to eight

or nine, you know?

And this is what, three months?

Calderon cannot sustain a policy

based just on, you know, sending

the military.

Again, he has to go... I mean,

it's really going to take the

institutions to take root

before... I think before you

start seeing real dramatic

change in Mexico.

And that's going to take a long

time.

>> HINOJOSA: What has to happen

on this side of the border?

What is the dialogue, the

conversation, that this country

needs to have nationally about

this issue that you don't think

is happening?

>> CORCHADO: Well, I mean, obviously the

weapons.

The weapon is a big, big deal.

You know, more than 90% of the

weapons confiscated in Mexico

come from the US.

There are hundreds if not more

than 1,000 gun shops just along

the US-Mexico border-- Texas,

Arizona.

>> HINOJOSA: So you can

basically cross the border from

Mexico, let's say legally, and

you can go and buy a gun in one

of these gun shops without a

problem?

>> CORCHADO: Virtually no problem, yeah.

And, I mean, that's a huge

problem.

I think the other debate that

Americans have to ask themselves

is, you know, currently,

overwhelmingly, most of the US

money goes into attacking this

problem as a police problem, as

a criminal problem, enforcement

problem.

You have to really, I think, go

back to... or think about the

treatment aspect.

It's a health issue.

And I think those are two

critical questions that have to

be asked before you start seeing

some significant change on this

side.

>> HINOJOSA: Okay, finally,

Alfredo, your message to young

journalists, okay?

They're looking at you and

they're saying, "He's got a

great job, stable, but, my gosh,

I don't ever want to do this."

Your message to young Latino

journalists is what?

>> CORCHADO: I'll say something that I've

told other people, is that...

personal experience.

When I first received my

threats, you know, death threats

from the cartels, my sense was,

"It can't be.

I'm an American journalist," you

know?

"They're not going to touch me,

because that just brings too

much attention."

And a US source confirmed that,

and said, "Look, I have good

news and bad news.

The bad news is that you just

don't look American, so be

careful."

>> HINOJOSA: Thank you, Alfredo.

Thank you for all of your work,

and for sticking to it.

We really appreciate it.

And thank you for joining us.

>> CORCHADO: My pleasure.