John Francis

>> HINOJOSA: How far would you

go to save the planet?

My guest today didn't use

motorized transportation of any

kind for 22 years.

And for 17 years, he didn't

speak.

Planetwalk founder and

environmental crusader John

Francis.

I'm Maria Hinojosa.

This is One on One.

John Francis, welcome to our

program.

>> FRANCIS: Thank you, Maria.

>> HINOJOSA: Good to have you

here.

So you are the author of the

book Planetwalker: 17 Years of

Silence, 22 Years of Walking.

>> FRANCIS: Yes, I am.

>> HINOJOSA: And so it really

was.

People, I'm sure they're like,

"Really?

He stopped talking for 17

years?"

>> FRANCIS: Right, I did, actually.

>> HINOJOSA: And you walked for

22.

>> FRANCIS: For 22 years, without

motorized vehicles, yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: And throughout all

of that, an essential part is

your friend here, the banjo.

>> FRANCIS: My friend the banjo.

>> HINOJOSA: Does banjo have a

name?

>> FRANCIS: Well, it's American Princess.

American Princess.

It's an old banjo.

It's over 100 years old, and was

built in Philadelphia.

>> HINOJOSA: So the banjo became

a central part of you as a

persona in these years where you

were walking and you were not

talking.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, it did.

>> HINOJOSA: But let's go back

for... and you play it normally.

>> FRANCIS: I do, all the time.

So you might hear it as we're

talking.

>> HINOJOSA: It's an extension

of...

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, it is.

>> HINOJOSA: But let's talk

about how it all started.

It started when... it was 1971.

>> FRANCIS: 1971, in California.

An oil spill happens in January,

near the Golden Gate Bridge.

I hear about it on the radio.

And we're living up in Point

Reyes, 40 miles away, north.

And we drive in, my girlfriend

and I, to see the oil spill.

But fortunately we can't see it

because of the fog.

That's probably why the accident

occurred.

But what we can do is we can

smell it.

And it is... I mean, it's a

horrific smell.

>> HINOJOSA: Totally toxic.

>> FRANCIS: Totally toxic, 10,000 gas

stations crammed together.

And...

>> HINOJOSA: Suffocating.

>> FRANCIS: Suffocating, reminding me so

much of being in the back seat

of a hot summer car with two

relatives, two of my

Philadelphia relatives, with the

windows rolled up, and going

over potholes, and me as a

little boy, you know, just not

enjoying that ride at all,

getting a little carsick.

>> HINOJOSA: Well, there might

be a lot of people who say,

look, they were very upset when

the Exxon Valdez oil spill

happened, they've seen other oil

spills, they may even remember

this 1971 oil spill.

But there might be a lot of

people who say, "Okay, but I

don't know about how you see an

oil spill and you make the

connection to then stop using

all motorized transport.

It was a process, but what was

the moment when you just said,

"That's it, I'm really not going

to get into a car," et cetera?

>> FRANCIS: Well, you know, we returned

to our home after we saw the

spill, you know, wanted to do

something.

I said to my girlfriend, "We

should not ride in cars."

But she kind of looked at me and

said, "We need lots of money to

do something like that."

And I kind of bought into that,

you know, that you probably

would need money to get the

time.

It was not until someone in our

community died having an

accident that was about my age

that I realized that to wait for

the money to show up, or to wait

for things to get better or

whatever or change, was really

unrealistic, because at the time

that person died, I realized

that we only have right now.

The future isn't here, and we

don't know what the future is.

So I went for a walk to

celebrate this person's life.

It was a 20-mile walk.

My girlfriend went with me.

And on the way back I decided

that I'm already walking, I'm

going to just continue walking.

And that's what I did.

When I got home I gave her the

keys to the car and just

continued walking.

>> HINOJOSA: What gave you the--

two things-- the moment to just

say, "I'm definitely going to do

it," and what gave you the kind

of moral center to say, "And I'm

going to stick with it"?

A lot of people start things,

but they can't necessarily stay

with it.

>> FRANCIS: My parents tell me it's my

hard-headedness.

>> HINOJOSA: And your parents

actually thought you were losing

it.

>> FRANCIS: Well, they did.

But my dad was wanting to know

why I didn't think of this thing

about not riding in cars when I

was 16.

>> HINOJOSA: In Philadelphia.

>> FRANCIS: In Philadelphia, you know,

because it could have saved him

a lot of dough.

>> HINOJOSA: Years later, you

decide that you want to take

this... would you say it's a

personal form of protest?

You know, the not using

motorized transport?

>> FRANCIS: Well, you know, it's been

called that, and I didn't really

think of it as a protest so much

as actually a lifestyle choice.

I thought people were going to

follow me right away when I

stopped riding in cars.

But what did happen was that I

found myself getting in

arguments.

>> HINOJOSA: Oh, you were having

to defend yourself all the time.

>> FRANCIS: I was having to defend

myself, you know?

>> HINOJOSA: So you have this

kind of peaceful self that is

walking everyplace, you know,

far from gas, and then you've

got to come home and basically,

you know, be able to defend what

you're doing.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, it happens on the road.

People pull up alongside me and

say, "John, get in the car."

And I go, "No, man, I'm not

getting in the car."

They said, "What are you walking

for?"

And I said, "For the

environment," you know?

And they go, "You're just doing

this to make us look bad, man,

or to feel bad."

>> HINOJOSA: Oh, you were trying

to make them look bad.

I see.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, you know, and to feel

guilty and to, you know, come on

and walk.

And maybe, to some degree, at

that early stage I... that was

true.

But then I decided that, "Look,

I'm arguing all the time."

On my birthday, which was coming

up, I was going to be turning

27, "I'm going to decide," I

said, "To not speak for one

day."

>> HINOJOSA: Not argue back, not

speak, not engage.

>> FRANCIS: Give it a rest.

And so I didn't.

My birthday came, I didn't speak

for that one day, and I learned

something right away.

>> HINOJOSA: Which was?

>> FRANCIS: I had not been listening.

I would normally listen to

someone just enough to think I

knew what they were going to

say.

And then I would stop listening

to them, and in my own mind rush

ahead to think what I was going

to say back to show them that I

knew better, they were wrong,

and I could say it better.

And of course that stopped all

communication.

>> HINOJOSA: What did that feel

like?

>> FRANCIS: Well, to learn that I had

been doing that?

>> FRANCIS: Well, actually more like when

you stopped talking and you

realized that you didn't even

have the combative inner voice,

the inner chatter?

That's, I think, the favorite

thing that I've learned from

your story, is that, wow, so you

can actually stop the chatter.

You really were able to do that?

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

And the reason... it took a

little while.

It took a few months of not

speaking.

>> HINOJOSA: Wow.

Months, okay.

>> FRANCIS: Because once you stop

talking, you have these voices

of past conversations, I think

dangling conversations, they

might be called.

You know, "He said that, and

then she said that, and I said

that, but I could have said

this," you know?

>> HINOJOSA: And you're doing

this all in your head.

>> FRANCIS: All in your head, and you're

all, "Next time I'm going to say

this."

And you keep doing this, and it

just drives you... you know.

Well, you know.

But that's because you have

these conversations.

But if you stop having those

conversations in reality, all

that playback goes away, because

you're not having those kinds of

conversations anymore.

>> HINOJOSA: You say that there

was a point in your life you

were already walking, and you

had stopped talking, and you

said, "I decided to use my life

for change and to learn what

that means."

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: So essentially you

were almost, like, looking at

your life and saying, "I'm going

to learn what it means to be..."

what, an activist?

A change maker?

So in the end, what does it feel

like?

>> FRANCIS: What I discovered walking

across the country and not

speaking is I rediscovered

myself.

Because as a black man growing

up in the United States, I would

see all kinds of media

reflections that did not portray

me in the most positive light.

I saw criminals, I saw sports

figures.

I could be a sports figure

maybe.

Or I could be a comedian, you

know?

But...

>> HINOJOSA: This is the '70s,

'80s.

Richard Pryor.

>> FRANCIS: Right.

But I could not be the person

that I am today.

And I didn't see that person.

But not speaking allowed me...

and walking allowed me to go on

this journey and to find myself

as a human being-- not a black

person, not a white person, not

a person of color, but a human

being.

>> HINOJOSA: Not even an

American.

>> FRANCIS: Not even an American.

>> HINOJOSA: Because you crossed

borders.

You walked all across South

America.

>> HINOJOSA: Yeah, and that was

the connection to find that, you

know, we're connected to each

other all the way.

And my walk across the United

States allowed me... and I

studied.

I got my masters in Montana and

a Ph.D. in Wisconsin.

But what... my education, my

informal education of listening

and being with so many people, I

realized that even though...

when I stopped riding in

cars, I thought environment was

about trees and pollution and

endangered species and all those

things.

And in my formal education,

that's what it was.

But my informal education taught

me that we're all part of the

environment.

And if we want to treat the

environment in a positive and

sustainable way, our first

opportunity is with the person

sitting across from us, or the

person next to us.

It's how we treat each other

that is so important in how

we're going to treat the

environment.

>> HINOJOSA: So that if we treat

each other with respect,

dignity, even though we may

disagree, that that's the first

steps of having an environmental

consciousness.

>> FRANCIS: Absolutely, absolutely.

And if you look at the world and

you see how we're treating each

other, you can understand why we

have so many, you know,

environmental problems.

>> HINOJOSA: One of the things

that you said, and this is a

quote from you, you said,

"Growing up as a black person in

America, it never had occurred

to me that you could do whatever

you wanted to do.

As a black person in America I

thought that was only reserved

for the white people."

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: So now, you know,

when you look out, people still

see you as a black man in

America.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

And I am a person of color.

>> HINOJOSA: Yes.

>> FRANCIS: Yes, I am, you know.

>> HINOJOSA: But at the same

time, you've gone through this

very profound experience.

How has it changed you in a

profound way?

Yes, you are a black man in

America, and yet you're saying,

"I'm connected to the earth, I'm

a human being."

But I think that's really what

it is, is that once you can let

yourself out of all of the

pretenses and the connections

that people, say, put on you,

and then come back to that place

where, "Yeah, oh, I'm

different."

I look different.

I'm not denying that.

But we're all connected, and

we're all the same as well.

So I think that's where we're

trying to get to.

Or anyway, that's where I got

to.

>> HINOJOSA: You started driving

again, or using a car, in 1995.

>> FRANCIS: Right, yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: You started using

your voice in 1990.

So, you know, when you look

back, did you in fact change

the... I mean, you changed

yourself, and your mom and dad,

I bet, and your girlfriends, and

et cetera, et cetera.

But did you change the world?

>> FRANCIS: Well, I think it's... you

know, you really want to look

at... when you start thinking

about changing the world, the

first person you want to start

to change is yourself.

And so I think that as I am

related to everyone else in the

world, changing yourself,

changing myself, did in some

ways change the world.

In a larger sense, when I

started walking, when I just

started... got out of my car and

started walking, and walked

across the United States, if

someone had said to me, "John,

you'll change the world," or,

"You'll make a difference if you

just get out of your automobile

and start walking east," and as

I got a little bit further on

they said, "Yeah, and shut up,

too.

You're going to change the

world, you're going to make a

difference," you know?

And I would have thought maybe,

you know, they'd been doing

something that they shouldn't

have been doing.

But that's what happened.

I mean, by the time I got to the

east coast, I had a Ph.D. in

environmental studies, I had

written on oil spills for my

dissertation, Exxon Valdez

happened.

I was the only Ph.D. writing on

oil spills at that time in the

United States.

I was hired by the United States

Coast Guard to help write the

regulations for the country.

And so there I am sitting in

Washington, DC 20 years later

after seeing this oil spill,

writing the regulations, the oil

pollution regulations for the

United States.

I have to say that I believe

that we all have that

possiblity, that journey, inside

ourselves, that if we do the

things that our heart says to

do, that we are going to make a

difference and we are going to

change the world.

>> HINOJOSA: So is that the

lesson?

I mean, you said that when you

first started walking, you

wanted people to kind of start

walking with you.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: So should we... you

know, should... I took a vow of

silence for about a day.

It was a lot of fun.

It was before I had kids.

I've never stopped using

transport.

Is that your message, "Do like

me"?

>> FRANCIS: Well, there are a lot of

people out there who are giving

up riding in their automobiles,

particularly young people.

>> HINOJOSA: I know, and that's

kind of... did you ever... I

mean, in a sense you're such a

visionary, because now people

really are trying to stop.

>> FRANCIS: People are, and young people

are actually going on these long

walks, the long journeys.

And, you know, they write me and

let me konw that they're doing

that.

And it's very interesting for

me, because I never expected

that was going to happen.

To aid that, I guess, I'm

working on a new initiative and

a curriculum called Planetlines,

which...

>> HINOJOSA: And this is for

grade school?

>> FRANCIS: K through university.

>> HINOJOSA: And what's the

essence of the curriculum?

>> FRANCIS: Well, it is an environmental

studies curriculum.

And as I say, environmental

studies now for me goes beyond

what we traditionally think of

environment to encompass human

rights, civil rights, economic

equity, gender equality, and how

we treat each other, meaning all

our relations.

But at the same time, while we

go on this walk and we're

collecting this anectodal data,

stories about people we meet and

what they do and what kind of

jobs they have and how they

relate to the environment, at

the same time you can measure

wtih little instruments that we

carry, an instrument pack,

temperature and humidity and

soil moisture and water quality.

And all those things go into a

line on a Web site which allow

us to look at our journey, and

people to share that journey.

And the more people that do

that, the better we know, the

more we know about the place we

live.

>> HINOJOSA: So you're back with

us entirely.

>> FRANCIS: I am.

>> HINOJOSA: You are... you

continue to walk, but you're in

cars, you're in trains, you're

in planes.

You have a family with young

children.

>> FRANCIS: Yes.

>> HINOJOSA: You're obviously

talking.

>> FRANCIS: I am.

>> HINOJOSA: You are.

Although, you know, people have

said that because of the fact

that you didn't speak for 17

years that your vocal cords are

actually very young.

But what do you miss?

You know, do you find yourself

in the hustle and bustle

sometimes and say, "Wow, I miss

walking," or do you find

yourself arguing and say, "I

really need to be quiet"?

>> FRANCIS: I try not to argue.

I try to really keep centered

about that.

It just seems like a very

important lesson for me, and

something that we all could work

on, which is to be able to

really listen fully to each

other.

>> HINOJOSA: When you feel like

you're not listening fully, does

something catch you and say,

"John, stop"?

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, it does.

>> HINOJOSA: When does that

happen?

>> FRANCIS: If I find myself getting

angry, you know, and I'm going,

"Well, wait, I have to stop."

And if I'm listening to someone

and take whatever it is that I'm

getting angry about, and I say,

"Okay, you're going to be able

to get angry about that, but not

right now.

Just put that aside, and listen

to this person, because maybe

you haven't heard yet of what

you need to hear.

Now, you can always get angry.

You can always come back and

have what you believe to be

that, you know, inside you.

But let's put it aside for now

and listen."

Angry is maybe the wrong word.

Passionate is... I think that's

the better word.

>> HINOJOSA: So here's a

question I have for you.

I mean, I'm sure that over these

years when you were walking and

not talking, the number of times

that people said to you, "John

Francis, (speaking Spanish),

you're crazy"...

>> FRANCIS: Si.

>> HINOJOSA: You know, and you

did... again, you did walk

through South America, across

the United States.

When people would say this to

you, well, of course you

couldn't respond to them, but,

you know, what did that do to

constantly have people

questioning you, saying, "Are

you all right, are you okay,

John?"

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, I had to question

myself.

And that's another lesson, to

continue to question yourself.

Because I had to question myself

to allow myself to get back into

motorized vehicles again.

>> HINOJOSA: When did it happen?

>> FRANCIS: It happened in Venezuela, as

I walked through a prison town,

Eldorado.

And I felt as though I was in

prison.

And unlike not riding, not

speaking, where every year I ask

myself, "Is this the proper

thing, does it still work," I

never questioned not riding in

automobiles.

And it wasn't until I walked

through this prison town that I

felt that I was in prison.

And when the guard asked me for

my passport I said, "Oh, no, I

don't need to show you my

passport.

I'm John Francis, I'm a goodwill

ambassador for the UN, and I'm

walking around the world."

Which is very unlike me.

And, you know, he didn't shoot

me, and I walked on into the

forest.

And it took me 100 miles to

figure out what it was that was

going through my mind to do

that.

And it was that the walking had

become a prison.

I had never expected to become a

UN goodwill ambassador or a

Ph.D., and I never expected I'd

have these responsbilities that

I owed to the people who helped

me get all that education, and

for the UN who had appointed me

this.

And so I decided that when I got

to Brazil, which was several

hundred miles away, I would...

>> HINOJOSA: When you talk about

several hundred miles away,

we're talking what, weeks?

>> FRANCIS: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: Okay.

>> FRANCIS: Weeks.

And what I was going to do was I

was going to use motorized

vehicles to come back home,

visit my parents, who thought

they would never see me again.

And that was another reason.

>> HINOJOSA: Right, because

actually, I mean, to see your

parents would mean maybe two

years of travel or walk.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, even longer.

And I wasn't going to see them

in this lifetime if I had

countinued doing what I was

doing.

>> HINOJOSA: So even though your

dad was always saying to you,

"Son, I don't know what's the

matter with you, son," there was

a profound amount of love

between the two of you.

>> FRANCIS: Oh, absolutely.

He always showed up.

You know, in the book you see

that he's always coming to...

when I get to get my first

degree in Oregon he shows up

there and he goes, "We're really

proud of you, son, but you have

to start riding in cars and

talking."

And we get to Montana, you know,

I'm graduating with a masters,

he goes, "What are you going to

do with a masters degree if you

don't ride in cars and you don't

talk?"

>> HINOJOSA: So he kept on you.

It was like year after year.

>> HINOJOSA: I'm in Wisconsin

getting a Ph.D. and he shows up

again and he goes, "Listen, your

mom and I are really proud of

you."

And he's looking around at my

apartment.

And he goes, "My sister said

maybe I should leave you alone,

because you seem to be doing a

lot better when you're not

saying anything.

But Ph.Ds are a dime a dozen.

What are you going to do with a

Ph.D. if you don't ride in cars

and talk?"

>> HINOJOSA: You... part of the

reason why you decided that you

wanted to talk again was to be

able to tell your parents that

you love them.

>> FRANCIS: Well, you know, I did.

And I have to say, at ten years,

at the tenth anniversary of me

not speaking I called my parents

on the phone, and my mother

thought it was my brother.

And I said, "No, this is

Johnny."

She said, "Well, tell me

something that only you and I

know."

And I told her something.

>> HINOJOSA: So this is ten

years into your...

>> FRANCIS: Ten years into my silence.

>> HINOJOSA: So you broke it.

>> FRANCIS: I broke that silence to call

them and say, "Look, I'm getting

ready to... you're going to hear

that I'm getting ready to walk

around the world.

And I want you to know that I'm

going to be all right and that I

love you."

>> HINOJOSA: Aww.

>> FRANCIS: And my mother called my dad

to get on the phone, and I spoke

for about an hour.

And then I stopped.

>> HINOJOSA: For another seven

years.

>> FRANCIS: Another seven years.

>> HINOJOSA: Wow.

So John, you say that there are

a lot of young people who are

actually engaged with your

story, they're learning about

your story.

>> FRANCIS: Mm-hmm.

>> HINOJOSA: So what do you want

to say to these young people?

I mean, in the end, what should

we do in relat... what should

each of us do in relation to the

environment and to our own

personal position on what we

should be doing?

>> FRANCIS: Well, you know, as I said

before, I really firmly believe

that how we treat each other is

our first opportunity to treat

the environment in a sustainable

way.

If we are the environment, if we

are the environment, then that

is fundamental.

All the other things that we do

are extremely important, but

they'll be like putting a

Band-Aid on something if we

can't learn to live together and

treat each other with respect

and dignity.

>> HINOJOSA: So you were able to

do this, though.

You were able to function.

You were able to teach, to get a

Ph.D.

>> FRANCIS: Yeah, yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: So, you know, there

might be some people who say,

"Well, maybe that is what I

should do.

Maybe I should..." and that's

okay.

>> FRANCIS: That's okay, that's okay.

It's just... I don't want to

tell you what your journey is

going to look like, what you

should do.

>> HINOJOSA: Right, well, so the

message that you want to leave

with the young people who are

watching today, and not-so-young

people, you found your way by

not using a car, by not... you

know, by not talking.

How do you want young people to

find their own way?

Leave us with those thoughts.

>> FRANCIS: Well, I think there's... you

know, you have to look for that

something inside you that comes

from your heart.

You'll know what that feels

like.

And go with that.

You know, that's the beginning

of your journey.

And someone asked me, "How will

I know when I'm my journey,

John?"

And I said, "Well, you climb up

to that mountain there, you see,

and when you get to the top you

turn around and you look back,

and you see where you came

from."

>> FRANCIS: And they go, "Yeah, yeah."

I said, "That's your path."

I said, "If you practice being

good to others and to yourself,

you'll be on your path."

>> HINOJOSA: Well, thank you so

much for those words.

We appreciate that.

John Francis, good luck on your

continuing journey, and thank

you for joining us.

>> FRANCIS: Thanks very much.