Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: In 1978 she became
the first American-born queen of
an Arab country.
For the last three decades,
she's been a world-famous
advocate of cross-cultural
dialogue and global peace.
Her Majesty, Queen Noor of
Jordan.
I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This is One on One.
Your Majesty Queen Noor, what an
honor to have you here.
>> NOOR: Oh, I'm delighted.
Thank you.
>> HINOJOSA: There's something
quite beautiful.
You know, most people now, when
I was telling people that I was
going to interview you, and I'd
say, "I'm interviewing Queen
Noor," they'd say, "Oh, we love
here, we love Queen Noor," this
feeling of love.
But people around the world know
you as Queen Noor.
>> NOOR: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: They don't know you
as Lisa Halaby, the woman who
you were.
You were growing up as an
American girl, and I think one
of the things that people are
fascinated by about you is the
fact that you actually... you
could make this decision to say,
"I was Lisa... I am, or was Lisa
Halaby, an American girl, but I
could also be this, I could also
be royalty of someplace else."
This ability to basically say,
"I could be someone else,"
change your identity, is really
quite extraordinary.
>> NOOR: Well, first of all, it was my
husband who changed the identity
in the way you described it,
with a title, et cetera.
I grew up as a young girl in
this country of Arab heritage,
and very interested in my Arab
roots through my father's side.
But I grew up... he worked for
President Kennedy, for example,
as his Federal Aviation
Administrator, and actually
reached the highest level of a
minority, I believe, in the US
government at that stage.
And so I grew up wanting...
infused by the spirit of the
Kennedy administration, of the
Civil Rights movement, of the
Peace Corps.
My heroes were people like
President Kennedy, Martin Luther
King, and I wanted to join the
Peace Corps.
I didn't... had no interest in
royalty, or in thinking about
changing myself.
And in fact, to this day, I
don't think I'm any different,
except in what I have learned
and experienced over time.
I'm still the young woman who
grew up in the United States,
and whose life has evolved to
encompass other cultures, other
societies, and unimaginable
responsibilities and love that
as a young girl I wouldn't even
have dreamt of.
>> HINOJOSA: So you brought it
up, love.
There is something about your
story which I think... people
see the power of this love, and
when they see pictures of you
with your husband, King Hussein,
this connection that you had...
and I think that... I remember
thinking when I was a kid,
trying to kind of do the double
culture thing, because I was
Mexican, but I was also
American, and just seeing you,
and I was like, "Wow, she was
able to do this.
She was able to bridge these two
cultures."
But so much of it was based on
the power of love.
>> NOOR: A great deal, and while many
people don't realize my Arab
heritage, and that I had worked
in the Arab world, I had worked
in Iran, and I'd worked in
Australia before I married, but
I at the time was working in the
Arab world from a base in Jordan
and traveling throughout, doing
research throughout a great many
Arab countries.
So I had something of an
understanding of the region, and
I had an instinctive interest
and curiosity because of my
heritage.
But it was my husband who had to
persuade me through his faith in
what we could be together,
because I kept asking myself,
"Could I possibly be the right
partner for him?
I'm an independent young woman
who has worked in many different
parts of the world, and lived a
very independent and
unconventional life, and I am...
I'm a relatively unconventional
personality."
And so it was his love and his
faith that had to win over my
confidence in... that I might be
the right partner for him.
Because I cared and respected
and admired his work for peace
in the Middle East, and I cared
enough for him as a person at
that moment that I didn't want
to in any way be a liability.
And the relations of the United
States with the Middle East have
been very, very complex, very...
very difficult over generations
now.
And I didn't want to be a
liability for him.
So yes, his love had to win...
win me... and his faith.
It was his faith in us that won
me over.
>> HINOJOSA: And I was writing
in my notes, I was like, "You
know, oftentimes people in this
country think of the Arab world,
and the Muslim world, as a world
that kind of pushes conformity."
And you're an absolute
nonconformist in so many ways.
>> NOOR: What we're seeing in the Arab
world today that is very
exciting is not only that, for a
variety of reasons, economic,
political, and social, are the
traditional centralized state
power centers being diffused
through different groups in
society, but more importantly,
we're seeing a self assertion of
the youth.
We're seeing a whole new dynamic
take place-- and I'm getting now
to the question you asked me--
and it is about thinking outside
the box.
We're seeing youth empowered
through technology and through
changes that are taking place in
society, and through sheer
numbers.
We have a youth bulge.
It's doubled in the past 30
years, and our youth are 65 or
more percent of our populations,
on average.
And those youth are not... they
are not... while they... they're
living in multiple sort of...
their identities are part... are
expressing themselves in a
multiplicity of ways, both...
there both is the conservative,
traditional family role, but
there is at the same time a much
more empowered, engaged, and not
so acquiescent as in the past
role in terms of developing
networks, expressing themselves,
expressing their aspirations,
their grievances, and their...
what they believe are their
rights.
And also, a new empowerment in
terms of developing economic
opportunities and an
entrepreneurial way of thinking,
an outside of the box way of
thinking.
So in fact, this generation is
much more like, perhaps, I was
when I was growing up, and when
I first came to the region.
They are bringing a new energy
and dynamism which has great
potential.
It's a great opportunity for the
region if we use it right.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, let me ask
you, what do you think is the
greatest challenge to bridge
these two worlds?
It's been your life's work,
right, is to try to get
Americans to understand that,
actually, you have a lot more
similarities than you might
think that you share with the
Arab people, with the Arab
culture.
And now, in a way, you were kind
of way ahead of the game.
>> NOOR: Well, over 30 years I've been
trying to make that point.
And yet today, at this point in
time, because of political
events, because of certain
isolated but tragic in their
consequences acts of terrorism,
and because of the political
process in this country, to some
extent, there seems to be even
more polarization that I
remember at almost any other
period of time.
And it's of great concern.
It's of great concern to Muslims
and to Arabs, and I suspect to
other communities around the
world as well, to see the
political system here so
polarized, and to see the other,
if you will, people or cultures
or societies that aren't
entirely familiar-- and that may
be true for Latin Americans as
well-- become, what do you call
it, political footballs.
In other words, to become so
highly part of a political... of
polarized political process that
no longer are the people and the
realities, the social and
cultural realities of our
regions, of our societies, part
of the understanding of the
decision makers.
Policy is being developed on the
basis of a very... a
superficial, stereotypical and
unreal image of people in
countries that are critical to
the United States in its
future, and critical for policy
makers to understand better...
to understand their aspirations
and what they're really looking
for in order to identify that
common ground which means that
together we can make solutions,
whether they're Latin American,
Northern American solutions, or
they're that critical
relationship between countries
in the Middle East and the
United States.
I don't know if I was very clear
on that one.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, no, but I
think what you're saying is that
the human contact is so
important, the understanding of
humanity.
And so, you know, again, you are
such a symbol in so many ways,
Your Majesty.
So I'm sure that there are many
people who would be surprised,
or maybe have forgotten the fact
that you became a Muslim
yourself.
And so people are saying, "Wait
a second.
The Queen is a Muslim, but she
doesn't look like someone who I
think, or have been told, or the
image..." so for people who are
wondering, well, what does a
Muslim in America like you, or
in the world that you live in,
all around the world, how do you
live your life as a Muslim on a
daily basis?
What does it mean?
>> NOOR: It's more than living it on a
daily basis.
It's an approach to one's life
in the short... today, in this
moment, and for one's entire
life.
You don't really start the day
thinking, "How am I living this
day as a good Muslim?"
At least I start the day with...
I mean, infused with a faith and
a set of responsibilities that I
believe are entirely consistent
with the Judeo-Christian values
that I grew up with in this
country.
And the same values that are so
fundamental to Christianity and
Judaism are the values of
Islam-- tolerance, and the
emphasis on charity, on
accountability before God, on
living a life that is of service
to others.
>> HINOJOSA: That's not...
>> NOOR: That's not the perception
that people have.
>> HINOJOSA: That's not the
image.
>> NOOR: Many Muslims, as many
Christians and many Jews, have
many different ways of
expressing their faith that can
have to do with their dress,
that can have to do with the
times of day that we pray, or
the way that we pray, or the
feast days that we celebrate,
many of which are related.
And so what appears in the
American media, for the most
part... a little less so in the
rest of the world, where the
media is more nuanced, there is
not such a sound bite and
narrow... and it is in part a
reflection of domestic politics
in this country as it concerns
the Middle East.
But here there is a very
stereotypical view of the Arab
world, and it does tend to focus
on terrorists and politics and
perhaps the oil riches and the
oil interests of certain states
in the Arab world.
It doesn't focus, as I said
earlier, on the people, on the
facts of our societies, on the
actual realities of our
societies, what we have
accomplished to date.
It doesn't even focus on what
extraordinary contributions were
made to civilization that are
part of everyday life for all of
us today during the golden age
of Islam, between the seventh
and the 13th centuries.
>> HINOJOSA: How can one person,
I mean, one person... when
you...
>> NOOR: It's not... it's encouraging
people to seek out knowledge and
understanding.
And there is access to that now.
The technology offers us access.
So anyone who's genuinely
interested in Islam or Islamic
history or the Arab world or
Arab history can go to a variety
of sources and find out more.
But what we do need to do and
ensure is that there is more
material on these subjects
available in the educational
system.
whether in this country or even
in our region, our educational
systems are failing our young
people, especially in terms of
understanding other cultures and
societies of importance to us.
>> HINOJOSA: So people feel this
sense of communion with you
because you have been so
incredibly honest about your
life.
In your book, Leap of Faith, you
reveal so much.
And I was wondering, I was like,
"You know what?
The Queen does not need to be
doing this, does not..."
>> NOOR: Well, I'm a shy person by
nature, and I did not want... I
wanted... I wrote that book.
The publishers seemed to have in
mind a one-year bestseller, in
other words, you know, a...
"Write it in a year, or have
someone write it for you in a
year, and it'll come out, and
how many queens have written
books?
And, you know, we'll market it
off of that."
And I said, "Well, no, I
actually have no interest in
writing a book that is not going
to inform and have some meaning
for people, especially
considering how much information
is absent from people's... from
the educational system and from
the media about the Middle East,
and how little is understood
about what actually has happened
in the search for peace in the
region.
So for me it was both trying to
put my husband's work in an
honest, objective way on paper,
and some of the realities of our
region, and the politics that
people find so confusing about
our region.
And that was the purpose of the
book.
Now, I was told, of course, if
you want get that across, you've
got to put in the personal to
hang it on, or no one will read
the book.
Or at least very few people will
read the book.
And I wanted to book to reach as
many people as possible--
different kinds of people.
And so the book is...
>> HINOJOSA: Is really inside.
>> NOOR: It's very personal, and it
also... I've been very gratified
by the people who have come and
told me thank you, people... you
know, Jewish Americans, and Arab
Americans, and Americans from
the Midwest, and throughout the
country, and all the other
countries that it's been
published in, "Thank you for
helping us to understand a
little bit more."
And as you said, I hope, and it
seems, that it has come across
as something authentic and not
as a piece of political
propaganda or personal
propaganda.
>> HINOJOSA: Now, I do want to
ask you another kind of personal
question, which is, you are
someone who, because of how you
ended up living your life,
married to King Hussein, your
own role, Your Majesty, you have
learned how to live with fear.
Your husband was... there were
assassination attempts.
And from a very personal place,
how did you do that?
And then you lost your husband
to cancer.
How have you reconciled that?
Give us some words of someone
who people look and say, "She
has been through so much, where
does she go, where does she find
the strength to battle the fear,
to battle the loneliness?"
>> NOOR: Through me, in the first
months and maybe years of my
marriage, I remember feeling
extremely protective of my
husband.
And I kind of acted as... when
we were together, I acted almost
like another member of his
security.
I was always...
>> HINOJOSA: I was shocked to
read that, honestly.
I was like, "Oh, my gosh, she's
standing in front of him?"
>> NOOR: It was just an instinctive...
it was just instinctive,
because... and this is where the
answer to your question comes
in.
Because he represented not only
the love of my life and the
father of my children and my
partner in so much that was
important to me in terms of my
work, but he represented so much
in terms of the hope and
prospects for peace in our
region, because of the example
he set, and because of his
constant 24-7 efforts to achieve
that.
I can attest to that, because he
was working to achieve peace in
his dreams.
I heard it at night.
And that is... so that was the
reason that I felt so protective
of him, because he was something
so much bigger than the two of
us, or me, or even just an
individual man.
He actually... his role in what
he was doing was important to
the lives and futures of
millions of people, which is why
it was such a tragedy that we
lost him at such a young age.
And I have just... I've
carried... what I... how I've
dealt with that loss is by just
continuing to work, and trying
to be a mother for our children
that... you know, a loving and
supportive and hopefully in
whatever ways I'm capable,
exemplary mother for our
children.
By exemplary I mean I think the
best way to have any kind of
influence in life is through
personal example, whether on the
political level or on the most
personal.
And then continuing the work in
Jordan, the development work
focused on human security
primarily, and also
internationally taking many of
those lessons and many of those
best practices models that we
developed there into other Arab
countries, and focusing on peace
building in other parts of the
world.
>> HINOJOSA: Which I guess is an
interesting segue, because I
brought up the issue of fear,
and how one lives with fear, and
yet you again have put yourself
front and center.
You created Global Zero to
basically say, around the world,
zero nuclear weapons around the
world.
Why take on yet another huge
challenge when you could be
raising your children, your
grandchildren?
>> NOOR: Well, I try to do that,
because that gives me the
greatest joy in life.
And at the same time, if their
future... if I can contribute to
improving the prospects for
their future and that of their
generation and others to come...
you have to look at life... and
I learned this with my... in
those early years with my
husband, and that trying to come
to terms with the fact that he
had been subjected to so many
assassination attempts.
You have to live each day, you
know, as if it is your last on
earth, and you have to work each
day as if you are going to live
forever.
You have to be looking to the
long term.
And I... the issue of nuclear
weapons is one that is critical
to the future security of
everyone anywhere in the world
today.
>> HINOJOSA: And you actually
say that right now, in terms of
nuclear power, we are more
unsafe than we were at the
height of the nuclear power
scare.
>> NOOR: The Cold War, the mutually
assured destruction.
There was a balance of power, so
to speak, and a conviction on...
I think a misplaced conviction.
I think the early scientists who
developed the nuclear bomb, they
were right-- it should have
stopped there.
The technology should have been
shared with the Russians, and
both sides should have agreed,
"This can go no further, because
it will only lead us into an
abyss."
And that's, of course, what has
happened.
What makes it more dangerous
today is that there are now nine
nuclear weapon states, some of
which have very... their nuclear
weapons are not in a secured,
stable environment, and there
are enough... there's enough
highly enriched uranium out
there to make perhaps 100,000
nuclear bombs.
>> HINOJOSA: This is where I'm
just like...
>> NOOR: We've come down from a Cold
War high of 70,000 nuclear
weapons to about 23,000.
In other words, we've
demonstrated that progress can
be made in reducing arsenals.
And the new START treaty that
President Obama and Medvedev of
Russia have signed is a very
important step towards reducing
our nuclear arsenals down to
zero.
Because the US and Russia have
about 90-odd percent of the
nuclear weapons in the world
today.
If they continue to make severe
cuts in their arsenals, which
leaves them, by the way, with
more than enough weapons to
destroy the world over, so
they're not cutting back in this
new START treaty in any way that
will make this country less
secure.
And that is what all the
military experts say.
They all support this new START
treaty.
The military leadership of this
country supports the new START
treaty, because it will take the
US and Russia closer to bringing
together the other nuclear
states when they see that the US
and Russia really are serious,
and don't intend to keep weapons
while telling everyone else they
can't have them.
Then you will find all
countries, including countries
like Iran... if they feel that
everyone is being treated the
same way, and held to the same
standards, you will find that is
the root to dealing with the
nuclear arsenals that are
preventing... that are creating
so much danger, because it's the
nuclear materials that can slip
out of those arsenals into the
hands of terrorists that could
destroy a city like this like
that.
>> HINOJOSA: But you still
believe, again, I guess,
profoundly motivated by your
humanity, that in a world of
distrust, that... you still
believe that countries can
actually come to an agreement
and say, "Zero nuclear weapons."
>> NOOR: I do believe that the reality
of the dangers is so much more
evident today than ever before.
It isn't necessarily to people
on the street.
That's why we produced this
film, Countdown to Zero, which
makes this issue very real, very
understandable, and it traces
the history of nuclear weapons
to the dangers that are posed by
nuclear terrorism today.
But on the level of heads of
state and experts in the
military field, our Global Zero
initiative in fact is comprised
of former heads of state, former
national security advisors,
defense... military commanders,
as well as faith leaders and
students and people representing
all sectors of society.
But the original architects of
nuclear programs in many of
the... for example, the
developed countries, as well as,
we've heard, from the Indians
and the Pakistanis, all agree
that nuclear weapons pose far
more danger to all of us today
than can protect any country.
In fact, the nuclear states, the
developed countries that have
nuclear weapons, a country like
the United States, is more in
danger, is more a target today
of loose nuclear materials than
it can protect itself, because
it can't protect itself with
nuclear weapons from nuclear
terrorists.
>> HINOJOSA: Your Majesty Queen
Noor, for all of that work, for
informing us, for being such a
humanitarian and such an honest,
wonderful woman, thank you so
much for joining us.
>> NOOR: Thank you, Maria.
>> HINOJOSA: Continue the
conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
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