Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: As an editor of
Rolling Stone magazine, he
introduced some of the most
iconic musicians of our time--
from Janis Joplin and Jim
Morrison to Bob Dylan and Elton
John-- rock and roll journalist
Ben Fong-Torres.
I'm Maria Hinojosa; this is One
On One.
Ben Fong-Torres, so you don't
play a musical instrument, but
you are an icon in rock and
roll.
>> FONG-TORRES: No!
>> HINOJOSA: Yes!
>> FONG-TORRES:I am not.
>> HINOJOSA: Rolling Stone
magazine made you famous.
You were an editor there for
well over a decade, and people
will remember you as the guy who
sent out that kid reporter in
the movie Almost Famous to go
get his story.
>> FONG-TORRES:That mean guy, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: That mean guy.
>> FONG-TORRES:That's me, mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: And I told you that
I was going to do this, because
as one journalist to another
journalist, it's hard to kind of
sum up, because you have
interviewed every major rock and
roll and pop musician and
country musician that exists, I
would day.
Okay.
>> FONG-TORRES:Well, you're overstating it,
but I'll take it.
>> HINOJOSA: Overstating a
little bit.
If you had to choose your like,
top most-memorable interviews
from this huge history, what
would it be?
What would it be?
>> FONG-TORRES:You know, Maria, I have
forgotten them all, actually.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
Every, single one!
Even Elton John.
>> FONG-TORRES:Mick?
Mick who?
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
Well, you know; sum it up.
>> FONG-TORRES:Yeah, it's a tough choice,
but I would say that quite
often, it was the
behind-the-scenes stuff that
goes on that builds to a story
that makes it memorable for me.
For example, one of my favorites
is Ray Charles, because at the
time that I suggested the story,
he was not really on the charts
and getting the kind of acclaim
he should've been.
>> HINOJOSA: What year was this,
Ben?
>> FONG-TORRES:Oh, this was back in the
early 1970s.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay.
>> FONG-TORRES: And Aretha's up there, and
Otis Redding was a big star, and
Joe Cocker-- a British guy who
sounded like Ray Charles-- was
on top of the charts and playing
the Fillmore Auditorium, but not
Ray Charles, except in tandem
with Aretha Franklin one time.
And I thought the man deserved
more.
He was one of the foundations of
American music as we know it and
love it.
And so I just raised my hand and
said, "Ray Charles is in town,
let's do him."
>> HINOJOSA: And was their
immediate reaction kind of like,
"Hmm, Ray Charles..."
>> FONG-TORRES: "Oh, tell us the story.
What's going on with him?"
Rolling Stone was always quite
open-minded, and back then, it
was not so much worrying about a
person's popularity the way so
many magazines are today.
And so if you made your case,
then you were sent out and got
the story.
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, so it wasn't
about a popular rock star.
That wasn't...
>> FONG-TORRES: No.
This was a man of history and a
man of pride and a man of... who
deserved a lot more than he was
getting at that time, and he
knew it, too.
I mean, he was...
>> HINOJOSA: And in that
interview, he actually revealed
to you-- he talked about the
fact that he was addicted to
heroin.
>> FONG-TORRES: Correct.
>> HINOJOSA: He talked about the
fact that he felt that he wasn't
getting a lot of recognition,
too.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes, yes.
So we played on pretty much the
reasons I had for the story, and
by the time we got to know each
other, it got to the point
where, for the first time, he
revealed details about his
addiction to heroin and his
kicking cold turkey in an
institution.
He wasn't that happy talking
about it, but he felt like he
was compelled to talk about it,
and he felt comfortable doing
that where he had not allowed
DownBeat and Playboy magazines
to ask details about those
incidences.
And so the story came off really
well, won some awards, and I've
always thought that it was Mr.
Charles who deserved to win
those prizes, because he was the
one who revealed his story so
eloquently.
>> HINOJOSA: You also have an
amazing moment with Janis
Joplin, where she calls you...
>> FONG-TORRES: ( laughing )
>> HINOJOSA: ...she calls you on
the phone.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah.
Janis and Rolling Stone weren't
exactly friends, which is odd
because she was a hometown gal
in San Francisco coming in from
Texas, and never got much good
press in Rolling Stone, of all
publications, and so...
>> HINOJOSA: Which sounds king
of like you would say... I mean,
I was too young at that point,
but I would have thought that
Janis Joplin would have been
like, an icon for Rolling Stone
magazine.
>> FONG-TORRES: Sure, but there can be icons
who do shows that don't rub the
critic just the right way or put
out an album that disappointed
the person who happened to be
assigned to that particular
review, and that's what happened
with Janis.
So things were not that great
between the magazine and her,
but she had broken up with Big
Brother and the Holding Company,
her first band in San Francisco,
and had gone on to some other
ventures.
And one night, out of the blue,
she finds me, and I was doing
some volunteer editing work at a
bilingual paper in San
Francisco's Chinatown.
And I just went down there on
Wednesday nights-- on press
night-- to help slap the paper
together.
>> HINOJOSA: And the phone
rings, and it's...
>> FONG-TORRES: ...Janis, yeah.
The phone rings and the editor
came along and says, "Hey, Ben,
I think it's for you, because
it's Janis Joplin... who
normally does not have much
business with our newspaper
East/West."
And so I took the call, and she
had apparently called the
switchboard at Rolling Stone...
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my gosh!
>> FONG-TORRES: ...and they said, "Oh, we
think Ben is out in Chinatown."
It's like, past midnight.
And so then the phone rings, and
she's calling just to say, "Hey,
man, I'm feeling great.
I've got this new band, I've got
this new tattoo and this
boyfriend, and I went to Rio de
Janeiro, and man, stuff is wild
down there..."
>> HINOJOSA: And you're like,
taking notes.
>> FONG-TORRES: And I just began taking
notes, and then just wrote a
little article out of it.
The headline, I remember, was,
"Hey, Janis is Feeling Great."
>> HINOJOSA: Aw!
>> FONG-TORRES: That's how casual things were
at Rolling Stone.
You know, whatever we
experienced would become the
story, and the headline and the
photos would reflect that.
>> HINOJOSA: So you also spent
some time with amazing... well,
one-- Michael Jackson.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: I want to talk
about that...
>> FONG-TORRES: All right.
>> HINOJOSA: ...because of the
fact that he's passed.
And then Grateful Dead, because
we know that there are huge
Grateful Dead fans out there.
But Michael Jackson.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: How much time did
you spend with him, and when you
found out that he had passed,
what did it symbolize for you as
this rock and roll... in
essence, you're a rock and roll
historian.
>> FONG-TORRES: Hmm.
Well, it went back to 1971.
And what it was was a Jackson
Five tour.
And they were going home to
Gary, Indiana, and they were
playing a couple concerts around
like, you know, Lansing,
Michigan.
I'm not quite sure now of the
cities, but Columbus, Ohio, and
also Encino, California, where
they lived.
And so I was doing a story that
basically trekked them going
home, basically, and doing a
concert.
>> FONG-TORRES: HINOJOSA: So you were
literally hanging out with the
Jackson Five and the whole
family?
>> FONG-TORRES: Hmm, certain scenes,
backstage, when they were
onstage.
And then they had a family
reunion dinner so I attended
that and observed the dynamics
of the family and the brothers
and the sisters.
And then saw them in concert
with the opening act being the
Commodores-- that was
interesting.
And then interviewed each of
them separately.
>> FONG-TORRES: HINOJOSA: But let me ask you,
did you at that point, did you
realize that Michael Jackson
could become this huge,
international star?
Did you have a sense?
>> FONG-TORRES: Oh, he already had a number
of top ten hits.
They were already quite big, and
it was unquestionable that they
were major stars.
Michael himself was a mega watt
star.
He was a brilliant performer.
And this is...
>> HINOJOSA: But he was a kid!
>> FONG-TORRES: He was only 13.
>> HINOJOSA: He was a kid.
>> FONG-TORRES: He was only 13 years old when
I met him, but he was-- and I
described it in the story-- he
was just so impressive.
And not in a freakish way, but
he was a kid who clearly loved
the art form of performance and
of singing, and had mastered it.
The James Brown spins and moves
and the crooning and the blues
kind of vocal style.
He was so sharp and so driven to
perfect his work that he already
excelled in all of these
different forms of music.
It was just amazing.
It was undeniable.
>> HINOJOSA: He was an
incredibly hard worker.
>> FONG-TORRES: Then five years ago, I meet
them again.
Now they're The Jacksons,
they're away from Motown,
they're still working together--
the brothers, and... a slightly
different lineup because
Jermaine had left and stayed at
Motown.
And so I met him as an
18-year-old at our home in San
Francisco for a TV show.
We decided to have a different
location than the usual
backstage or hotel room.
And so they all emerged out of a
long stretch limo on Buchanan
Street in Japantown in San
Francisco, and popped into our
apartment-- Dianne and mine--
and sat there for an interview
for television.
Michael was extremely shy, a
little awkward.
I mean, he was kind of tall and
gangly, wore a black sweater,
white shirt, big afro, and...
but whenever he sat down or when
it was his turn to talk, he
would talk quite earnestly and
quite articulately-- unlike me--
and...
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
>> FONG-TORRES: ...and said some very
interesting things.
>> HINOJOSA: You're doing good,
you're doing good.
But let me ask you this.
You know, there is a sense that
these rock stars are, you know--
we all know this, they're larger
than life.
You know, they end up on
magazine covers, huge
concerts... you're with them in
their most human moments.
>> FONG-TORRES: Hmm, yes.
>> HINOJOSA: What do you take
away from that?
I mean, how do you kind of tell
young people, "Look, don't get
taken over by the whole brouhaha
and the whole stardom and the...
>> FONG-TORRES: Hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: In the end, you're
an artist and you're a human
being, and you know, how you
treat... I mean, what is it that
you take away from it, because
you've been with so many of
these huge, iconic rock stars?
>> FONG-TORRES: Well, at that moment, all I
do is take away a story.
I'm taking notes, meeting a
deadline, moving on to the next
thing.
>> HINOJOSA: You're a working
journalist.
>> FONG-TORRES: So I'm not there to advise
them.
I'm not their minister or their
psychiatrist...
>> HINOJOSA: But you're
observing...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: ...how they
interact.
>> FONG-TORRES: Right.
And sometimes, the artist will
say, "Wow, man, this is like
being with a shrink," you know,
this interview.
Because you're probing them.
They are revealing things that
they would not talk to their own
family members about sometimes.
>> HINOJOSA: And you felt that
you had pretty easy access to
rock stars to get them... people
assume that there's kind of a
wall that they put around
themselves, but in fact, for
you...
>> FONG-TORRES: There's a wall, but back
then, Rolling Stone was quite
often... it was really the only
game in town on that level of
being a serious chronicler of
what was going on in rock and
roll and pop music culture.
And so artists really wanted to
be in Rolling Stone, unlike
today with all the competition
from cable television and all
different media platforms, other
magazines, daily newspapers...
everything is so pop-centric,
whereas before the daily
papers-- the mainstream media--
basically declined to be
interested in what was going on
there.
And so they welcomed us; gave us
a lot of access.
Today, for example, you're lucky
to get 45 minutes with a
superstar.
Back then, you road on their
Learjets or road the busses with
Linda Ronstadt next to you for
an entire three hour ride
somewhere, and then backstage.
>> HINOJOSA: Because do you feel
that today almost, now, in terms
of like, music journalism, it's
all controlled, contrived,
prepared, marketable, kind of...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
Right.
In one word: yes.
There are, of course,
exceptions, and some magazines
have more access.
Back then, Rolling Stone had
access to pretty much everybody
for as much time as we wanted.
>> HINOJOSA: But anytime that
you read about these guys, it
feels like it's, you know, it's
contrived.
It doesn't feel like you're
really living with... do you
know what I'm saying?
It doesn't feel like you're
really living with these big,
top musicians.
>> FONG-TORRES: Right.
You're popping in for a moment.
You're getting a sliver of their
life, and it's only the
professional life that you're
observing.
Whereas back then, as I say,
riding in a bus with Bonnie
Raitt and Tom Waits and John
Prine all hanging out and
goofing around...
>> HINOJOSA: Don't drop any
names or anything like that!
>> FONG-TORRES: ...and getting high.
And I think Diana Ross was in
there, too...
>> HINOJOSA: Really?
>> FONG-TORRES: No.
But you couldn't help but really
get to see them.
They're there, they are really
human beings just hanging out,
and critiquing each other, and
making fun of each other, and
deciding to do a song spur of
the moment, and you're there
watching it.
It's... it is like Almost
Famous.
It was how it was with that band
for that kid.
>> HINOJOSA: One of the things
that I find so interesting about
you as an American journalist is
the fact that you have also
shared your own story.
You wrote a memoire.
It's called The Rice Room: From
Number Two Son to Rock n' Roll
And within the Asian community--
Asian Journalist Association--
you are, again, an iconic
figure, because you are an Asian
journalist who has "made it" to
the big time.
But there was a lot of time when
you were a kid growing up in the
1950s and 1960s in this country
when you didn't like a lot about
where you were coming from, who
you were...
>> FONG-TORRES: Hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: ...you know, you
were working in your parent's
Chinese restaurant-- working all
the time.
>> FONG-TORRES: Sure.
>> HINOJOSA: Talk to me a little
bit about that... that place
that you have where you looked
at your own culture...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
I've learned that that's a
pretty common feeling...
>> HINOJOSA: ...and you didn't
necessarily like it.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah, I think that's a common
feeling that kids have-- kids of
immigrant families, who come...
who are being raised in America
and want to be Americans, and
wanted to be part of what's
going on; just to be accepted
socially.
There was no thinking
about the mainstream or anything
like that, it's just wanting to
have friends-- somebody to stick
with at the cafeteria.
You know, the simplest things as
a child-- to be able to play, to
be invited to a party-- and the
more you are different from what
is accepted to be and what you
see to be the mainstream in
society, the more you feel like,
"Oh, wow, I have to work a
little harder to be able to be
sociable and social and
accepted."
And so on top of being Chinese
American, we also have the
obligation with the family to
work at the restaurant
constantly, all hours.
>> HINOJOSA: I love that part of
your book where you were just
like...
>> FONG-TORRES: No summer.
>> HINOJOSA: You actually say...
you say something like you were
folding won tons and cutting
chicken to the songs of The
Rolling Stones, the Beatles, and
Petula Clark?
>> FONG-TORRES: Well, yes, right.
Yeah, to a certain extent,
because doing those chores goes
back to the mid-1950s.
And so we're talking about
Doris Day and Eddie Fisher and
Perry Como-- listening to music
and to baseball games.
That's my second love, yes.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, you're going
to have to... you took me there,
Ben.
>> FONG-TORRES: I did.
>> HINOJOSA: Because now I'm
going to have to ask you to
impersonate one of those
singers.
>> FONG-TORRES: ( laughing )
>> HINOJOSA: Because you would
listen to Dean Martin and Elvis.
>> This is becoming the Benny
and Maria Show.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
>> FONG-TORRES: Donnie and Marie.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, which one do
you...
>> FONG-TORRES: Elvis was my first musical
hero, that's for sure.
And then I spent the year in
Texas with my father, who had a
restaurant in Ventura... in
Amarillo, so I had a lot of free
time, and so I was able to do
what a lot of young American
boys and maybe some girls, too,
did-- standing in front of a
mirror trying to do Elvis from
watching him on TV.
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, how cute!
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah, me-- a little Chinese
kid with a ukulele from the
discount store!
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my God!
>> FONG-TORRES: So I learned a song, and...
yeah.
And so I would do Elvis-- "I Beg
of You," or "Treat Me Nice," or
"Teddy Bear," "Don't Be Cruel."
Nowadays, I perform it...
perform Elvis in person in front
of a live band every month in
San Francisco.
>> HINOJOSA: You are just
working like crazy.
I mean, you could be,
essentially, retired, taking it
easy, putting your feet up...
>> FONG-TORRES: I wish, I wish.
Yeah, right.
Nope, instead I work, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, will you sing
Dean Martin for me, then?
>> FONG-TORRES: Dan Martin you want?
Oh, okay.
>> HINOJOSA: Let's do Dean
Martin.
>> FONG-TORRES: Oh, all right.
Something like "That's AmorÈ" or
"Everybody Loves Somebody"?
>> FONG-TORRES: Sure.
"Everybody..."
>> FONG-TORRES: j& Everybody loves somebody
sometimes
Where's my drink?
j& Everybody falls in love
somehow.
j& Something in your questions
just told me
j& My sometime is now. j&j&
There you are.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
So for you, what did you do
around this whole reality that
your parents... you know, you
were Chinese American at home...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: You were having a
hard time even communicating
with your parents...
>> FONG-TORRES: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: ...because you were
focused on speaking English, and
they were not learning English
because they were busy working.
>> FONG-TORRES: That's right.
>> HINOJOSA: What did you do
about this kind of dichotomy of
"Which one... am I Chinese?
Am I American?
Am I Chinese American?
Do my parents see me as that?"
How did you kind of...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah, there was no...
intellectualizing it, that's for
sure.
It was just day to day life.
This was just reality.
>> FONG-TORRES: HINOJOSA: Well, was the
United States, at that point, a
welcoming country to a young
Chinese boy, or...
>> FONG-TORRES: We were in Chinatown, and so
that was kind of an enclave to a
certain extent.
We went to Chinese school, you
know?
Most of the students at Lincoln
Elementary School were from
Chinatown.
There was a mix, for sure.
Some of my best friends were
Japanese and African Americans,
but it was largely a Chinese
community, and therefore, you
didn't really get that much of a
sense of the outer society at
that young age.
And you know, how do you get
through that?
You bond as siblings-- which I
did-- and you do what parents
expect of you, which is to work
hard and study harder.
You go to the additional Chinese
school, which again, divides you
some more, because now you're
hearing one dialect of Cantonese
at home with your parents and
speak mainly that; you go to...
>> HINOJOSA: Because your
parents came from a small
village.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes, two different small
villages in Tianjin in China in
Guangzhou.
And then you're learning a
different of the more prominent
dialect in Chinese school.
They're beginning to teach
something called Mandarin, by
the way, on the side.
That's three dialects of
Chinese, plus this newfangled
language called English that
we're supposed to get hold of,
too.
And so you're torn all these
different ways.
All you do is go with it.
There's really no thinking about
it.
"Gee, I'm not Chinese; I'm not
American;" no, there's none of
that.
You just live your day to day
life until you get to the point
where you say, "Okay, this is
what I'm interested in and I'm
going to try to do it."
And for me, in the early 1960s
wanting to be in media-- that
was not something where I could
aspire after a role model.
There were no Chinese Americans
doing broadcasting or newspaper
or magazine work, so it was a
pipe dream, for sure.
>> HINOJOSA: And your parents
actually... your parents... you
like to say that it took them
about 25 years to realize what
it was that you were doing,
because you...
>> FONG-TORRES: That's true.
>> HINOJOSA: ...as far as they
were concerned...
>> FONG-TORRES: Something like a hippie
magazine.
Something like a hippie
newspaper.
>> HINOJOSA: And that was...
that was...
>> FONG-TORRES: No.
>> HINOJOSA: That was not so
good.
>> FONG-TORRES: No.
It was not until The Rice Room
was published in the early
1990s and I went and did a
reading at a library branch that
happened to be in Chinatown--
Oakland, so they could get there
easily.
And then they saw what was going
on in terms of some... I
wouldn't say "fans," but people
who read the book or knew my
work and showed up, and they
asked for autographs, they took
pictures.
And so my mom got a... you know,
I had been on TV a lot by that
time and had a radio show that
didn't connect with them.
It was seeing it in person and
hearing from Chinese friends of
theirs or parents of people who
knew what I did who would then
tell them who I was.
Then they knew, but yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But you end up
going back to China...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: ...and then you end
up kind of discovering your
family's roots.
>> FONG-TORRES: Right.
I had not been back to the home
village since I was about maybe
five years old.
I went back with my mom and my
sister Sarah...
>> HINOJOSA: And I'm sure that
there are some people who are
saying, "Okay, wait a second.
So Ben Fong-Torres goes back to
his small village in
Southeastern China.
Hmm.
So where does the 'Torres' come
from?"
>> FONG-TORRES: Oh, yeah; that's right.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay?
Because you are Ben Fong-Torres.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah, it was a wild night in
Vegas, that's what it was!
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
That's what your dad... no, he
wouldn't say that.
>> FONG-TORRES: The Chinese Hangover.
Well, my father, you... well,
you know about this, and I think
more and more people do
understand now that there was
the Chinese Exclusion Act
enacted in 1882 that pretty much
banned the entry of Chinese
people into the United States--
except for those who were
already family of people who
were native Chinese Americans
who had been born here, who were
already living here.
So there was a lot of illegal
activity for people to have to
get into to come here.
That is, to become paper sons
and daughters and to fake your
way in as the child of a Chinese
American citizen.
My father found a different way.
As a teenager in China, he had
been told that he could make
more money going through the
Philippines to work, and so
that's what he did.
He moved to Manila as a teenager
and began to work and then send
money home to his village in
China.
And then in Manila, he learned
that a way to get to America--
which was his goal-- was to
maybe cross over as a Philippino
national.
>> HINOJOSA: Let me... let me
stop you there.
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: Why did your dad...
so he's from this small
Southeastern village in China...
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: ...what made your
dad understand that his goal was
United States?
>> FONG-TORRES: Was America.
Oh, it was just common knowledge
for people who... lived a life
of poverty and want that there
was this golden land; this
golden mountain; this thing
called America that some people
had gone to and done well in,
and could prosper and either
raise a family or send money
back to the family in China.
And this became a pervasive goal
among a lot of young men,
particularly in China.
And so my father's way was to--
through advice from friends--
buy a piece of paper that made
him Ricardo Torres.
And so...
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, wait.
So your dad's... his birth
name...
>> FONG-TORRES: ...is Fong Kwok Seung.
Fong Kwok Seung.
>> HINOJOSA: And he became...
>> FONG-TORRES: Ricardo Torres.
Lucy?
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
>> FONG-TORRES: And so he... and he, from his
time in the Philippines, he
learned enough phrases to pass
as a Philippino national, and so
he came to Seattle first, and
then to San Francisco, and then
to Oakland.
>> HINOJOSA: Do you sometimes...
because I know, everybody is
like "Fong-Torres.
What is up with Ben
Fong-Torres?"
I mean, your dad could have...
he could have just decided to be
Fong...
>> Yes, he could have.
>> HINOJOSA: ...but he had taken
this "Torres"...
>> FONG-TORRES: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: ...and he said,
"I'm going to keep it in my
name."
>> FONG-TORRES: Well, no, he didn't say any
of that stuff, but at the
hospital when the first child
was born-- Sarah-- a family
friend who knew of these things
said, "Dude, you can't be Fong
because your legal name here is
Torres, all right?"
>> HINOJOSA: Oh!
>> FONG-TORRES: Although now I like the sound
of "Tor-rez."
It's a... I'm going to go with
that now from now on at this
late stage in life.
"And you cannot be 'Torres'
because your real, God-given
name is-- Buddah-given name-- is
'Fong,' so what are you going to
do?"
And my dad probably shrugged his
shoulders and the guy said, "How
about both of them?
You know, have your bases
covered."
And so Fong-Torres.
It could've been Torres-Fong or
something else, but that's how
they chose to do it, and then
later on as we came along and
learned English, we punctuated
it with a little hyphen.
For a long time, people thought
my middle name was Fong and last
name Torres.
Very confusing, but it's a
story.
>> HINOJOSA: All right, so when
I was thinking about this
interview, I was like, "Well,
what is rock and roll, you know?
And if you kind of look at rock
and roll in a historical concept
within the United States, what
is the lasting lesson of rock
and roll?"
Then I was, "Well, and is there
a lasting lesson of hip hop?
And is there a lasting lesson of
something else that is yet to
come?"
When... this is what you do.
What do you see?
>> FONG-TORRES: The lasting lesson is
"express yourself."
That's basically it.
From generation to generation,
whether it was Sinatra and the
bobby socks years, or Rudy
Valley before him, or Elvis
Presley on Ed Sullivan, every
generation comes along, and
young people need to be able to
speak for themselves; to
communicate to each other in a
language that they can actually
have as their own if that's
possible.
There's are always going to be
that divide between young people
and those who are their adult
supervisors, whatever.
And so rock and roll is one way
to do that, and rock and roll is
being redefined every minute.
And that's why hip hop can be
put right into the same category
as rock and roll.
It is the voice of rebellion, of
revolt, of "Our own thing, and
leave us alone."
>> HINOJOSA: So when you look at
what might come next, what are
you thinking about?
>> FONG-TORRES: Oh, who knows, you know?
It can be something electronic,
it can go right back to
acoustic-- it's just whatever a
community of kids...
>> HINOJOSA: It could go
completely simple also?
It could be like...
>> FONG-TORRES: Sure.
>> HINOJOSA: ...the opposite of
electronic?
>> FONG-TORRES: Yeah, and it can stay
fashionalized the way it has
been for 30 years now.
You know, ever since rock
"matured" so called, and there
became to be branches of rock
and roll-- from acoustic
singer/songwriters and folkies
to punk rockers, to the
corporate rockers, to the...
>> HINOJOSA: No, wait, wait.
Corporate?
>> FONG-TORRES: Yes, corporate.
Well, in the 1970's, yeah.
Rock and roll became such a big
industry.
>> HINOJOSA: Can you name me a
corporate...
>> FONG-TORRES: Well, they were considered to
be artists like Kansas and
Journey.
>> HINOJOSA: Yeah, I remember
those.
>> FONG-TORRES: There music was considerably
more thought-out, formulaic, and
manufactured, and less soulful,
less antiestablishment, like the
punk people.
Certainly almost as smooth as
disco, which was another branch
that was coming forth in the
mid-1970's.
>> HINOJOSA: Can't deny; I was
there.
>> FONG-TORRES: And disco is still here, you
see?
It never goes away.
None of the forms ever really
disappears.
>> HINOJOSA: All right, so
finally, Ben, what needs to
happen with American music?
>> FONG-TORRES: Well, nothing needs to happen
with it.
It would be nice if it stayed
that there's always room for
roots music, and there's always
a... an open ear for a wide,
global kind of music.
And that it's not just go the
way of trends.
Not just boy bands and
electronic stuff and lip-synched
stuff; that there's always
reality involved.
And given the way Americans are
and musicians around the world,
that will always be the case.
No matter how manufactured
things get, there's somebody in
a basement just doing it on her
own or his own.
>> HINOJOSA: Ben Fong-Torres,
thank you for all of your words
of wisdom.
>> FONG-TORRES: Thank you, Maria.
>> HINOJOSA: A pleasure.
Continue the conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
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