Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: His 1998 film Smoke
Signals wowed Sundance and
became an indie sensation.
Since then, he's devoted himself
to making movies that give
today's Native Americans a
voice-- award-winning filmmaker
Chris Eyre.
I'm Maria Hinojosa, this is One
On One.
Chris Eyre, you are the most
well-known Native American film
director in the United States.
Welcome to our show.
>> EYRE: It's great to be here;
awesome.
>> HINOJOSA: But let me ask you
something.
When people introduce you like
that, are you kind of like,
"Okay, I am Native American and
I'm a film director, but," you
know, "I can be both things and
separate things at the same
time"?
>> EYRE: Yeah, I mean, it's awkward
for me, just because, you know,
as a person, I hate to wear
that, even though some people
identify that.
But it's good to make work; I
mean, that's what it comes down
to.
It's good to make work, and for
me, it's just as an artist-- not
as a Native person or an
American person, but as an
artist-- it's important to make
things that kind of explore, you
know, who we are as Americans,
who I am as a Native American,
what tribalism means, and so
that's all just, you know, part
of it.
>> HINOJOSA: You, though... the
film that everybody has seen--
Smoke Signals-- was
extraordinary, because it was
the first feature film directed
by a Native American director
that made it to national
release.
Had a huge following; in fact,
you said that the film kind of
went on and on and on...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...for a long time.
What was the impact of Smoke
Signals, now that you stand
back and kind of look at it?
>> EYRE: You know, the funny thing is
that myself and Sherman Alexie,
the writer of Smoke Signals, you
know, were dreaming about making
this movie that would somehow
catch fire, and next thing you
know, it... it caught fire and
it hit.
And ten years later, it's still
the movie that I'm best known
for, and I think it's because,
you know, when you have a
"coming out" type of, you know,
party or whatever it might be,
that's what people, you know,
really see.
I mean, I've made five or six
movies since then, and done
television-- like Law and Order
and Friday Night Lights, but
people still remember Smoke
Signals.
And I think the lasting effect
of that movie was that it was
another land marker in Native
cinema-- if there is such a
thing.
You know, in the early 1990's,
when Dances With Wolves came
out, it taught a whole
generation of Native actors that
they wanted to be performers in
the industry.
And with Smoke Signals in 1998,
what happened was-- at least
what I'm seeing now-- is that
there's a generation of Native
American men and women that are
saying, "We are filmmakers, we
are directors, we are writers,
we are producers."
>> HINOJOSA: So you... so
really, Smoke Signals has
changed the idea of Native
Americans and filmmaking.
>> EYRE: I think so.
>> HINOJOSA: Since Smoke
Signals, yeah.
>> EYRE: You know, Elizabeth
Weatherford, who's the director
of the film/video center at the
National Museum of the American
Indian in New York City pulled
me aside-- I was there for a
film festival this past March--
and she said, you know, "20
years ago when I started, 90% of
the content that they were
programming was made by
non-Indians."
And she said, "Now, 90% of it
that we're programming is made
by Native Americans, and a lot
of them are in their 20's..."
>> HINOJOSA: Wow.
>> EYRE: "...and their 30's."
>> HINOJOSA: That must be so
exciting for you.
>> EYRE: It's wonderful to see,
because it's not about the loin
cloths; it's not about the
historical portrayals of Native
people.
>> HINOJOSA: In fact, you
actually had a term for this:
"leathers and feathers"?
>> EYRE: "Leathers and feathers."
It's not my term; it's been
coined before.
But you know, I mean, you know,
you take these wonderful actors
and you put them in loin cloths
and feathers and have them
running and doing all sorts of
stuff, and that's wonderful, but
that's a staple of American
cinema that is always going to
exist.
And for me and this generation
of young Native filmmakers,
what's important is to do the
things that Hollywood can't do.
>> HINOJOSA: Which is to...
>> EYRE: And that is to portray
contemporary Native people
today.
I mean, you know, there's things
like...
>> HINOJOSA: And not this
idealized... idealized form.
You basically are like, "Look,
it's not all pretty out there."
>> EYRE: Well, I mean, you know, I
remember just a few years ago
going to powwows and seeing an
18-year-old Indian kid drive up
in a Hummer.
And you say, "What?"
The world's changing, you know?
And it was because of, you know,
casinos, and...
>> HINOJOSA: And you've
actually... you actually think
that the gaming and casinos for
the tribes are a good thing.
>> EYRE: I think they're absolutely a
good thing.
You know, the thing to remember
about that is that they're all
about location.
So I mean, in Southern
California you have great gaming
that's going on, and then the
Northeast-- you know,
Connecticut and New York, and...
>> HINOJOSA: But is there a part
of you that kind of... I was
wondering how you deal with any
anger that you have.
I mean, let's be clear.
You were born Cheyenne
Arapaho...
>> EYRE: Uh-huh.
>> HINOJOSA: ...you were
adopted...
>> EYRE: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: ...actually, by a
white family, and raised in
Oregon, and even, interestingly,
that adoption was essentially
considered, like, an
international adoption, right?
Because you were leaving the
reservation and going into
another state.
>> EYRE: Yeah, I mean, you deal with
anger through your work, you
deal with anger through your
humor, you deal with anger...
you know, sometimes by yourself.
But it's all about the artist.
It's about, you know, the
artist.
I mean, I could've been a
musician or a sculptor or an
actor, and it was just about the
vehicle to, you know, get some
of that stuff worked through and
get some of that stuff out,
so...
>> HINOJOSA: So did you have a
lot of anger?
Do you have a lot of anger?
I mean, when I just look at
statistics about the Native
American reality in our country,
I get angry.
I mean, alcoholism, drug abuse,
poverty, lack of education.
And it's like, these are the
original people from this land.
How can this be happening?
And if I've got that anger and
I'm not Native...
>> EYRE: Yeah, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...I wonder what
you do.
>> EYRE: You be positive, you know?
I mean, you be positive; I mean,
that's what you do.
And that's really all you can
do.
You know, everybody has their
politics, and at a certain
point, you have to shut that off
and you have to be, and you have
to love, and you have to live,
and you can't always be
political.
And with Indian country-- and I
know this with Native people in
particular-- it is all-consuming
sometimes, you know?
With people's economics on
reservations, with people's
social conflicts, and with the
fact that on Pine Ridge, you
know, sometimes people are seen
as "the Indians" or "the icons"
or the "romantic tragedy."
And that gets to be a little
much for anybody.
So I mean, ultimately, it's
about, you know, finding
yourself and finding, you know,
your love for yourself, and
moving forward.
>> HINOJOSA: So when you were
growing up, did you think, "Hmm,
I want to become a film
director; this is something I
could do"?
Because you weren't seeing a lot
of images of Native Americans,
period.
>> EYRE: Well, I mean, when I was
young, my mother-- who is
wonderful-- always said, "You're
a Cheyenne and Arapaho."
And you know, it goes over your
head, you know?
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, you were like,
"Yeah?"
>> EYRE: "Yeah, let me, like, go on
the jungle gym," you know?
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
>> EYRE: But at some point, you know,
when I turned 18, I started to
say, "Now, what does that mean?"
>> HINOJOSA: So it wasn't until
you were 18...
>> EYRE: Well, interestingly enough...
>> HINOJOSA: And your mom was...
your mom, again, was white
American, because she adopted
you.
>> EYRE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: So...
>> EYRE: When I was in high school,
the Native kids and I always
were connected, because they
didn't know I was adopted.
And I was even beat up by some
of the Indian kids because they
thought I was one of them, which
is a real, you know?
A real...
>> HINOJOSA: "You're one of us;
we're going to..."
>> EYRE: ...strange, yeah... a real
strange...
>> HINOJOSA: "...beat you up,"
okay.
>> EYRE: ...strange perception of
things.
But, you know, I mean, if I
would've been far enough apart
from them, I wouldn't have ever
been in those situations.
But I was actually, you know, in
the Title IV Indian Education
Program in my high school, and
met a lot of, you know, other
Native students that were
Klamath and Modocs, and you
know, most of them never knew
that I was adopted.
And once I left high school, I
took my camera, which I'd, you
know, learned to do photography
in high school, and I started
taking pictures.
And what I didn't know a the
time was I was searching for
that history.
And as I took more and more
pictures, I was starting to find
out, you know, who I was, and I
eventually met my mother-- my
birth mother, Rose-- in 1995,
and I met my biological
grandmother, who lived with...
>> HINOJOSA: So they were... so
your biological mom and your
biological grandma were on the
res?
>> EYRE: They were living, at the
time, in Kelso, Washington,
which is above Portland, but had
been in Warm Springs Reservation
for years, and...
>> HINOJOSA: Had you... were you
going to reservations while you
were a kid?
>> EYRE: I went to a little bit of
reservations, but not a lot.
Klamath Falls doesn't have a
reservation.
It was terminated... the Klamath
tribe was terminated, I think,
in 1956, and then they got
reinstated as a tribe in the
1980's.
But, you know, growing up in
that kind of community and
place, I remember when the
Indians received money in the
1970's, and you know, everybody
talked about how, you know, they
were just spending it wildly,
and you know, going on these
crazy binges.
And Indians were perceived as
this, you know, this thing.
And so, you know, I had this
vantage point where I would look
on both sides of things quite a
bit.
>> HINOJOSA: Kind of like
insider/outsider perspective.
>> EYRE: Insider/outsider, yeah, like
America.
>> HINOJOSA: So you end up going
to film school at NYU.
>> EYRE: Uh-huh.
>> HINOJOSA: And you spent a
chunk of time living in New
York, and after Smoke Signals
came out, you had another great
success with another wonderful
movie called Edge of America,
about an African American
basketball coach who ends up
working on a res...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...and this whole,
kind of relationship; African
American/Native, which was
fascinating.
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But now you live in
South Dakota, and this is
your base-- South Dakota is your
base...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: You made a decision
to be in a place like South
Dakota, as opposed to-- and you
could have.
You could have been in New York,
you could have been in
Hollywood...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Why?
>> EYRE: Because, basically, I wanted
to be around, you know, Northern
Plains Native American
Americana.
>> HINOJOSA: Because as a film
director, for you it's essential
to stay in touch with that
reality?
>> EYRE: It's... yeah, it's essential
for me to stay in the culture,
and learn about the culture all
my life, because I was apart
from it.
>> HINOJOSA: And what you see--
again, because a lot of
Americans I feel like, you know,
they don't go onto the res; they
don't have a lot of reason to go
onto the res-- so we have these
images of Native American... the
Native American population, that
is... it's just kind of flat,
you know?
You... your home... all of your
movies are about, "Let me tell
you about what's really
happening."
And these kids, for example, in
the movie Smoke Signals-- Victor
and... the other...
>> EYRE: Victor, Joseph... I'm even
like, I'm pulling it out from 10
years ago...
>> HINOJOSA: Well, because I
just watched Smoke Signals.
But those characters-- these
young Native American kids who
are kind of... one of them's
kind of dorky...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...the other one's
very angry...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But you're
basically saying, "Look,
they're... they're American
kids, now."
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Right?
I mean, there's a lot of them
that's just...
>> EYRE: Well, I mean, there's...
there's that whole thing.
I mean, Sherman Alexie wrote a
wonderfully funny screenplay in
Smoke Signals, and the
important thing, you know, to
see is that, you know, you go to
places like Pine Ridge, which,
you know, I have ties to through
my daughter, and you see the
poverty and you see the wrecked
cars, and you see all the iconic
things that are in movies about
Native people, but the thing
that you don't see is the wealth
of the spirit, and the love, and
the humor, and the community.
And those are the things that
really make up America, I mean,
whether it be Native American,
or whether it be African
American, or whether it be, you
know, the suburbs of Greenwich,
Connecticut.
It's not about the faÁades in
the front of the house; it's
about, you know, the love and
the laughter and the communities
that live within them.
And those are the things that,
in my movies, I try and, you
know, show and I try and
portray.
And Sherman and I hit with Smoke
Signals, and hopefully Edge of
America, is, you know, we don't
want the faÁades-- we want to
see what's inside.
>> HINOJOSA: So is Hollywood
receptive to that?
>> EYRE: I think, more and more,
Hollywood's receptive to it.
You know, Edge of America, which
came out in 2004, was about an
African-American teacher who
came to the res and started to
teach.
And when I got the script, I was
looking at it and I thought,
"This is really interesting."
It was written by Willy
Holtzman, and I said, "I've
never seen a movie about African
Americans and Native Americans."
And, you know, in the 120 years
of movies, you're sitting there
going, "Huh?"
I mean, does that... that far...
>> HINOJOSA: But how hard was
that movie to make?
I mean, when you show up in a
Hollywood executive office, and
you're like, "We've got this
script about an African American
basketball coach who's going to
go into a reservation," are
their eyes just glazing over, or
are they engaged?
Are they like, "You know what?
There's an audience here."
What's the reaction of these
folks who you deal with?
I don't know how you do it, but
you deal with them.
>> EYRE: I think the reaction is kind
of a glazed look sometimes...
>> HINOJOSA: It happens, yeah.
>> EYRE: ...which is, "Huh, now, how
do I put that in that box or
that hole," and you know, if it
hasn't been put in that hole
before or that, you know, square
hasn't been put into that
triangle, it's hard for people
to make that leap, you know?
>> HINOJOSA: So how do you do
it?
I mean, Chris, you are so laid
back; you're a very calm,
clearly centered person.
When you're in those meetings
with those Hollywood executives
whose eyes are kind of glazing
over...
>> EYRE: When their eyes glaze over,
mine glaze over.
>> HINOJOSA: Yours glaze over.
>> EYRE: It's a mutual glaze.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
But then the money doesn't
happen and the movie might not
get made.
>> EYRE: No, I tease, but it's...
ultimately, you know, it's, you
know, they get made.
They'll get made somewhere.
They happen.
I mean, and you know, that's
what I'm about is just slowly
making a body of work.
We Shall Remain is a great
series that has been on PBS
recently, produced by WGBH...
>> HINOJOSA: And you directed
three of those series of We
Shall Remain, which were
amazing.
There, you went into doing kind
of historical documentary work--
very different than a narrative
film.
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: And I know that you
were concerned about the images
again, of "Our we going to be,
you know, again putting the
Native people into this little
box?"
What kind of challenges did it
raise for you?
>> EYRE: Well, I mean the first thing
was when I got a call from
Sharon Grimberg and Mark
Samuels.
It was like, "Okay, I've never
done a historical Native piece,"
and I said, "now, what's going
to make this different?"
You know, for me, you know,
whenever you see these scripts
about Native people in
historical terms, you read the
script and at the end, the
Indians die.
And I say, "Well," you know,
"what's the difference here?"
They're interchangeable; it's
like the Seminoles, the
Cherokees, the Lakotas, the
Navajos, you know?
You know, whoever it might be,
at the end, they... you know,
that's the Hollywood version of
Indians in movies.
And so I said, you know, "What's
different about this?"
And what's different about it is
that, you know, we went, you
know, inside the house.
We actually showed Wes Studi,
you know, as a slave owner,
which is not a great moment in
Cherokee history.
But it's inside where we're
seeing something we haven't ever
seen before.
And when I'm shooting the scene
with Wes Studi riding a horse,
and he comes down and he's
talking to his slaves in
Cherokee, I say to myself, "This
has never been seen before,
filmically, I don't think."
And so it's those images-- you
know, the good, the bad, the
ugly, the humorous-- that, you
know, as Native people, I want
to pull back and start to see,
you know?
And We Shall Remain really took
some strides in showing
something different about Native
people.
>> HINOJOSA: Were you surprised
when you got that call to have
you direct that kind of a film?
>> EYRE: I'm always surprised when I
get a call!
( laughter )
>> HINOJOSA: Really?
>> EYRE: Yeah, I mean, you know, like
I said, I've done Friday Night
Lights for NBC and Law and
Order, and...
>> HINOJOSA: And Law and Order
is actually important, because
the actor from Smoke Signals who
was young at the time of Smoke
Signals, Adam Beach...
>> EYRE: Adam Beach, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...had a long run
on Law and Order: SVU, I guess?
>> EYRE: Long run, yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, he did, I think,
22 episodes or something like
that.
>> HINOJOSA: That's pretty
wonderful, I mean, were you
happy to see him out there?
>> EYRE: You know, we all, as Native
actors and people in the film
community, any time somebody
makes a mainstream piece of work
that isn't dependant on
"leathers and feathers," I mean,
we all applaud it.
It's a great stride.
>> HINOJOSA: What are you
thinking about next?
You're working on a big project
called The Whale Hunt, which is
also going to be
controversial...
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: ...no matter what,
because you're dealing with the
hunting of whales; a traditional
kind of custom.
>> EYRE: Right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: And you're talking
about, you know, protecting a
species.
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: So where's the
status... what is the status of
your new movie The Whale Hunt?
>> EYRE: I'm hoping to make A Whale
Hunt sometime soon.
We had it at HBO and were
developing it, and got passed
over for Bury My Heart At
Wounded Knee, which is a
"leather and feather" type
movie.
A Whale Hunt is based on a true
story that took place in 1999.
The Makah tribe in Northwestern
Washington state decided, after
80 years, they were going to go
hunt a gray whale traditionally
in a dug out cedar canoe with a
whaling team, and bring it back
to the community and hold their
ceremonies like they did for
hundreds of years, after the
gray whale came off the
endangered species list-- and
they did.
>> HINOJOSA: It was... it's
actually a true story.
I remember hearing about it.
>> EYRE: It's an amazing story.
You know, people came out of the
woodwork and said, "You can't
kill a gray whale," and they
said, "It's off the endangered
species list."
They have the right under the
1856 treaty they signed with the
U.S. to hunt in perpetuity-- to
hunt forever-- their traditional
way.
And because it came off the
endangered species list, they
felt like it was a renaissance
of their culture and something
that their people needed to do,
and they went out and they did
it.
And you know, Greenpeace and...
>> HINOJOSA: Huge protests.
>> EYRE: ...all these people showed
up.
Interesting thing is is that
they took one gray whale in
1999, and I went up the coast to
Barrow, Alaska, with the Inupiat
one year and saw a traditional
whale hunt up there, and they're
allowed to take up to 22 a year
up there.
People don't know about that...
>> HINOJOSA: Yeah.
>> EYRE: ...so I probably shouldn't be
saying this on TV.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
They're going to know now.
>> EYRE: But it's not... it's a matter
of proximity.
I mean, I guess it's okay to
take 22 whale up there for a
traditional culture, but it's
not okay to take one near
Seattle, you know, for a
traditional culture.
>> HINOJOSA: So...
>> EYRE: Which is strange.
>> HINOJOSA: So when people say
to you, "Oh, you know"-- not
knowing that you are a film
director, but they know that
you're Native-- and they're
like, "You know that movie
Dances With Wolves; that was so
great!"
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: And you say...
>> EYRE: I say, "Yeah!"
I love the movie.
>> HINOJOSA: You did.
>> EYRE: I mean, yeah, there's
different ways to look at it.
Like I said, I mean, as a Native
person, you know, you can't
always be, you know, in a
political place.
>> HINOJOSA: So you loved it.
>> EYRE: As entertainment, it's great,
you know?
Entertainment is entertainment,
you know?
And for me, being, you know, the
adoptee, it's like... it's
always just that matter of, you
know?
For lack of a better word, you
know, you walk in two places
quite a bit, you know?
>> HINOJOSA: So if you had
control of a Hollywood studio,
what would be the kinds of
movies that you would be making
that deal with Native issues?
>> EYRE: I would make contemporary
movies.
I'd make movies about Native
people today that aren't about
us in the past, and that show
who we are, you know, as
healthy, progressive, beautiful
people.
>> HINOJOSA: In fact, one...
there was a moment that you told
this story about you were at a
conference, and somebody said,
"I like those images that I saw
in the old movies; they made me
want to be an American Indian."
And then you were like, "Yeah,
well, what about crackers and
spam?
That's what it's kind of...
that's what's happening now."
>> EYRE: Yeah, you know the romantic,
with the feathers and horses and
all that stuff, that's
wonderful, but, you know, who
wants to be an Indian eating
Spam and commodity cheese on the
reservation?
>> HINOJOSA: And yet,
everybody...
>> EYRE: And I guess I do.
>> HINOJOSA: ( laughing )
And yet, everybody on those...
on the reservations, are they
watching all of the... they're
watching television, right?
>> EYRE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But they just never
see themselves reflected on
primetime.
>> EYRE: I make jokes.
I say, you know, "Why don't we
ever get to be in a McDonald's
commercial, or a Wal-Mart
commercial?"
And you know, I joke around
about that stuff, but you know,
I mean, we'd have to be in,
like, you know, Thomas
Builds-The-Fire attire with, you
know, the braids for them to say
demographically, "Okay, there's
an Indian that we wanted in this
McDonald's spot so we could
market to the Indians."
And in reality, it's like, you
know, a lot of times I have
Native friends who don't have
their hair long, and everybody
says that they're, you know,
from somewhere else-- somewhere
else in the world-- and they're,
you know, immigrants here, or,
you know?
And you know, that's not a bad
thing, but the fact of the
matter is that our understanding
of who we are as Americans is so
narrow.
>> HINOJOSA: Do you think it's
changing, though?
Do you...
>> EYRE: It's changing; it's
definitely changing.
>> HINOJOSA: So finally, for
young people; young, Native--
well, maybe they're directors,
maybe they're actors-- what do
you say to them?
Where... what do you say to them
when they're like, "God, the
doors are closing on me all the
time.
I can't get the meetings.
They don't get my scripts.
I'm entirely frustrated," and
you say...
>> EYRE: I say, "Just do it, and do
it, and do it, and do it."
And that's basically what I've
tried to do, which is, you know,
you're not going to change the
world through one movie, you're
not going to change the world
through one story, but I believe
stories do change the world,
humor changes the world, love
changes the world, and it's
about making a body of work and
exploring different stories.
>> HINOJOSA: But if they're
saying, "Dude, I'm making a
movie, but it's like not ending
up anywhere.
No one's seeing it, and I'm
running out of money."
>> EYRE: Yeah.
It's harder for females to
become directors than it is for,
you know, a minority, and I
remind, you know, Native people
all the time, it's like, it can
be difficult.
You just got to get up and do
it.
>> HINOJOSA: And thanks for
doing it.
Chris Eyre, we really appreciate
your stories and for coming to
see us.
>> EYRE: Thanks for having me.
>> HINOJOSA: Good luck on the
next film.
>> EYRE: Awesome.
>> HINOJOSA: Thank you.
Continue the conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
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