May 25, 2010: Boston firefighters defend a controversial contract

>> Rooney: TONIGHT ON
"GREATER BOSTON," THE UP
ROAR OVER THE RAGE FOR THE
CITY'S FIREFIGHTERS.
UNION PRESIDENT ED KELLY
ON THE CONTROVERSY AND THE
ONGOING FEUD WITH THE
CITY.
PLUS THE GROWING DISASTER
IN THE GULF.
TONIGHT THE MAN WHO HEADED
THE LEGAL TEAM
INVESTIGATING THE EXXON
VALDEZ OIL SPILL.
AND LOST IN SPACE.
WHY HAS ONE OF JUPITER'S
RINGS DISAPPEARED?
>> Rooney: GOOD EVENING.
THE BATTLE BETWEEN
BOSTON'S FIREFIGHTERS AND
MAYOR TOM MENINO SEEMS TO
BE TILTING IN THE MAYOR'S
FAVOR.
A NEW POLL SHOWS THAT
TWO-THIRDS OF CITY
RESIDENTS OPPOSE THE
REPORTED 19% RAISE THE
FIREFIGHTERS RECEIVED FROM
AN ARBITRATOR EARLIER THIS
MONTH.
MEANWHILE, BOSTON CITY
COUNCIL PRESIDENT MICHAEL
ROSS SAYS HE'LL VOTE
AGAINST THAT CONTRACT
UNLESS THE FIREFIGHTERS
MAKE A SIGNIFICANT
CONCESSION.
BUT BOSTON FIREFIGHTERS'
LOCAL 718 PRESIDENT ED
KELLY IS UNBOWED, AND
PROMISES HE'LL SUE IF THE
COUNCIL REJECTS THE
ARBITRATOR'S WORD.
ED KELLY, THANKS FOR BEING
HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING
ME.
>> Rooney: LAST TIME YOU
WERE ON, MICHAEL ROSS WAS
AGAINST IT, BUT HE HAS
SINCE STEPPED UP.
AND HE SAYS HE IS NOT
GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS
UNLESS YOU OFFER
CONSIDERABLE CONCESSIONS.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND?
>> HE MADE AN ATTEMPT TO
GET INVOLVED IN THE
BARGAINING PROCESS.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE CITY
COUNCIL IS PRECLUDED FROM
GETTING INVOLVED IN
BARGAINING.
I THINK GIVEN THE FACT WE
HAVE A STRONG MAYOR CITY,
ONE WHERE A PERSON CAN BE
MAYOR FOR 20 PLUS YEARS,
LONGER THAN SOME ELEPHANTS
LIVE, THAT IT MIGHT BE
HEALTHY TO HAVE THE
ELECTED OFFICIALS INVOLVED
IN THAT PROCESS, TO ENSURE
THAT THE WORKING PEOPLE OF
THE CITY OF BOSTON ARE
BEING TREATED FAIRLY, AND
THAT THEY'RE NOT SUBJECT
TO ANY TYPE OF POLITICAL
AGENDA.
>> Rooney: IN EFFECT
THEY ARE INVOLVED IN THE
ARBITRATION PROCESS
BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE
RIGHT, AS YOU KNOW, TO
REJECT THIS CONTRACT.
THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL
WHEN AN ARBITRATION IS PUT
FORTH.
SO THEY CAN VOTE IT DOWN,
OR THEY COULD SAY, BEFORE
WE DO THAT, LET'S GO BACK
TO YOU ONE MORE TIME AND
SEE IF WE CAN HAMMER THIS
THING OUT AND GET IT DONE.
>> RIGHT.
AND WHAT -- WHAT THE
ARBITRATION PROCESS LAWS
THAT DEFINE AND MANDATE
THE PROCESS ALSO SAY THAT
WE, THE UNION, AND THE
MAYOR, ARE BOUND TO
SUPPORT THE AWARD AS
WRITTEN.
AND THAT'S A SITUATION
WHERE I'M NOT AT LIBERTY
TO PULL APART THAT
ARBITRATION AWARD AND
START NEGOTIATING WITH IT.
I'M NOT AT LIBERTY TO DO
THAT.
I'M BOUND TO SUPPORT THAT
AWARD.
>> Rooney: BUT IF YOU
WENT BACK TO THE
MEMBERSHIP AND ASKED THEM
WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO,
COULDN'T YOU DO IT THEN?
>> NO.
BECAUSE WE'RE ALL BOUND BY
THE LAW.
THE ENTIRE UNION IS BOUND
BY THE LAW.
LIKE THE ENTIRE EXECUTIVE
DEPARTMENT IS.
>> Rooney: YOU SAID YOU
WOULD SUE THE BOSTON CITY
COUNCIL --
>> NO.
I DID NOT SAY THAT.
I SAID UNDER THE LAW,
MAYOR MENINO WAS BOUND TO
SUPPORT THAT LAW.
CLEARLY BEING ON THE FRONT
PAGE OF THE BOSTON HERALD
SAYING WE CAN'T AFFORD IT,
SIX WEEKS AFTER HIS LEGAL
POSITION BEFORE THE
ARBITRATOR WAS THAT THE
CITY COULD AFFORD IT.
THE ARBITRATION NEUTRAL,
DANA ISEN, WHO WAS
APPOINTED BY FIVE
PRESIDENTS OF THE UNITED
STATES TO ARBITRATION
PANELS SAID THAT THE AWARD
THAT IS WRITTEN IS A
$46 MILLION AWARD.
THAT IS BUTTRESSED BY THE
CITY.
BUT THE CITY TESTIFIED
THEY HAD $48 MILLION IN
THE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
RESERVE, AND MARKED FOR
OUR CONTRACT.
>> Rooney: OF COURSE
THEY HAVE TO.
THEY HAVE HAD TO PUT MONEY
ASIDE FOR THE LAST FOUR
YEARS.
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD BE
BROKE BECAUSE THE NEW
CONTRACT NEGOTIATION IS
GOING TO START IN A MONTH.
YOU BROUGHT UP THE M.I.T.
PROFESSOR.
HIS FIGURES ACTUALLY
COINCIDE WITH WHAT THE
MAYOR AND HIS TEAM
DISCOVERED, THAT IT IS,
INDEED, A $74 MILLION.
>> CORRECT.
>> Rooney: BUT HE ALSO
SAYS THIS IS NOT THE FIRST
TIME THE CITY HAS
NEGOTIATED WITH A UNION
ABOUT DRUG AND ALCOHOL
TESTING.
SO PRECEDENT IS ON YOUR
SIDE.
>> TRUE.
FIRST OFF, WHAT HE DID SAY
IS THAT THE ARBITRATOR WAS
RIGHT, THAT OVER THE
FOUR-YEAR LENGTH TERM OF
THIS AWARD, IT IS A
$46 MILLION AWARD, AND
THAT THE MAYOR IS RIGHT.
IF YOU COST IT OUT INTO A
FIFTH YEAR, IT DOES BECOME
A $74 MILLION AWARD.
TO GET TO YOUR POINT, HE
ALSO SAID THAT, IN FACT,
THERE WAS A LONG HISTORY
OF BARGAINING IN THE CITY
WHERE THE MAYOR, AS IN
RECOGNITION OF THE
CONCESSION SUCH AS DRUG
TESTING, FOR OTHER
SIMILARLY SITUATED
BARGAINING UNITS, THERE
HAS BEEN TRUE, REAL
ECONOMIC BENEFIT GIVEN IN
EXCHANGE FOR THAT
CONCESSION.
NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE
$74 MILLION COST OF THE
AWARD, THAT'S BASICALLY
WHAT THE COST WOULD BE IN
A 50-YEAR GOING FORWARD
JUST TO KEEP THE FIRE
DEPARTMENT GOING.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE
DIFFERENCE OF THE , QUOTE,
UNQUOTE, QUID FOR DRUG
TESTING, IN RECOGNITION OF
THE DEALS THAT WERE MADE
IN THE PAST, IT COMES OUT
TO $3.7 MILLION.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT,
$3.7 MILLION.
>> Rooney: ACTUALLY ON
THAT POINT, BECAUSE COKEN
WAS CLEAR ON THIS, HE IS
NOT SAYING THAT YOU CAN
RENEGOTIATE THIS AT THIS
POINT BY SAYING I'LL TAKE
THAT 2.5% AND APPLY IT TO
THE NEXT YEAR, AND MAYBE
EVEN FREEZE YOUR SALARY AT
THAT POINT, OR WAIT SIX
MONTHS AND TAKE IT THEN.
SO YOU COULD TAKE THE SUM
OF MONEY, IN A SENSE, IS
WHAT HE IS SAYING, SO IT
WOULDN'T CHANGE THAT.
BUT IT WOULD CHANGE THE
TERMS OF IT.
BUT THE MONEY, AS
ARBITRATED, WOULD STAY THE
SAME, CORRECT?
>> I THINK WHAT PROFESSOR
COKEN WAS SAYING, IN ORDER
TO DO THAT, WE WOULD HAVE
TO BASICALLY RESTART
NEGOTIATIONS OVER THE
AWARD.
>> Rooney: I DON'T KNOW
IF YOU WOULD OR NOT.
>> HOW ELSE?
I CAN'T NEGOTIATE WITH
MYSELF AND I CAN'T
NEGOTIATE WITH THE CITY
COUNCIL.
THEY'RE PRECLUDED FROM
DOING THAT.
THAT MEANS THE MAYOR AND I
WOULD HAVE TO SIT DOWN --
>> Rooney: CAN YOU DO
IT?
>> I HAVE DONE IT, AND IT
HASN'T WORKED OUT.
IT IS INTERESTING TO POINT
OUT, WHEN I RAN FOR BOSTON
FIVE YEARS AGO, OUR FIRE
DEPARTMENT HAD A FIRE BOAT
THAT WE STILL HAD THAT IS
NOT IN SERVICE.
IT IS OUT OF THE HARBOR.
IT WAS SINKING.
WE HAD NO FIRE TRAINING
HOUSE.
OUR NEW KIDS HAD TO GO OUT
TO WORCESTER TO GET
TRAINING.
WE HAD OUR HAZMAT AND
TECHNICAL RESCUE TEAMS
WERE ACTUALLY TRAINING IN
ABANDONED WAREHOUSES.
WE WERE USING FURNITURE
THEY WOULD TAKE OUT OF
DUMPSTERS THAT
CORPORATIONS WERE THROWING
OUT.
WE HAD GUYS COME IN
OFF-DUTY, ALONG WITH THE
CARPENTERS UNION AND THE
IRON WORKERS ARENA AND THE
ELECTRICIANS' UNION AND
THE PIPE-FITTERS' UNION,
AND BUILD --
>> Rooney: WHAT ARE YOU
SAYING, THAT THE CITY
SHOULD HAVE PROVIDED
THAT --
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE
FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS
COLLAPSING ON ITSELF.
WE KNEW TO PROVIDE THE
BEST JOB FOR THE CITY OF
BOSTON, BUT THE GOAL IS
SAYING WE HAVE TO BE
TRAINED THE BEST WE CAN.
>> Rooney: YOU'VE HEARD
THE ARGUMENT, CLOSING THE
LIBRARIES, CUTTING CITY
SERVICES.
AND THAT'S WHY THIS POLL
IS COMING DOWN PROBABLY
MOST LIKELY IN FAVOR OF
THE MAYOR.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
IT IS A PUSH POLL.
>> Rooney: I GOT THE
THING.
AND IT DIDN'T EVEN WORK.
>> DO YOU THINK THE
FIREFIGHTERS' DESERVE A
19% RAISE.
THIS AWARD DOES NOT GIVE
US A 19% RAISE.
THAT IS A MISLEADING
QUESTION.
IT ASKS IF YOU BELONG TO A
UNION OR ANYONE IN YOUR
FAMILY.
THEY WANT TO IDENTIFY
THAT.
AND IT ASKS IF YOU THINK
THEY SHOULD CUT CITY
SURFACES.
I THINK 66%, 34%, GIVEN A
LOT OF THE MISCONCEPTION
OUT THERE IS A WIN FOR US.
IF WE RAN A POLL THAT SAID
DO YOU THINK BOSTON
FIREFIGHTERS SHOULD EARN
BETWEEN $30,000 OR $15,000
LESS THAN A BOSTON CITY
COUNCILLOR?
DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE IN
FAVOR OF THAT?
I SAT WITH MIKE ROSS WHERE
HE WAS SITTING NEXT TO A
JUNIOR MEMBER WHO JUST GOT
BACK FROM IRAQ WHO MADE
$56,000.
YOU HAVE A CITY COUNCIL
MAKING $87,500.
>> Rooney: DO CITY
COUNCILLORS MAKE THAT?
>> YES.
AND OUR TOP FIREFIGHTERS
MAKE ABOUT $74,000.
>> Rooney: WITHOUT
OVERTIME?
>> CORRECT.
SO WHAT THIS AWARD DOES IS
BASICALLY BRING OUR TOP
AID FIREFIGHTERS UP TO
WHAT A CITY COUNCILLOR
MAKES.
>> Rooney: ED KELLY,
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU
BACK AFTER THE VOTE IN THE
CITY COUNCIL.
I'M WILLING TO HOST A
LITTLE DEBATE BETWEEN YOU
AND THE MAYOR?
>> HEY, I'M GAME FOR THAT.
>> Rooney: ED KELLY,
THANKS FOR COMING.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Rooney: WHEN WE
CONTINUE, OIL AND WATER
DON'T MIX.
THE DISASTER IN THE GULF.