May 24, 2010: Patronage at the Probation Department

>> Rooney: TONIGHT ON GREATER
BOSTON, PATRONAGE AT THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT LEADS TO
THE SUSPENSION OF THE
COMMISSIONER.
PLUS HIGH-END SHOPPING COME
BINLED WITH HIGH-END LIVING.
UP... BUSINESS CONTRIBUTOR
KRIS FRIESWICK ON THE NATICK
COLLECTION AND JOSH SIMPSON IN
THE ART OF GLASS.

Closed Captioning
brought to you by AFLAC:
Ask about it at work.

GOOD EVENING.
THE STATE SUPREME JUDICIAL
COURT TODAY SUSPENDED
PROBATION COMMISSIONER JOHN
O'BRIEN IN THE WAKE OF A
DAMNING REPORT ABOUT HOW HE
RUNS THE AGENCY.
THE BOSTON GLOBE'S SPOTLIGHT
TEAM SAYS PATRONAGE IN THE
STATE'S PROBATION DEPARTMENT
IS RAMPANT.
NOW IT'S A HOT TOPIC IN THE
GOVERNOR'S RACE.
THAT'S BAD NEWS FOR STATE
TREASURER TIM CAHILL WHO IS
RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AS AN
INDEPENDENT AND HAS CLOSE TIES
TO THE EMBATTLED PROBATION
COMMISSIONER.
ACCORDING TO THE BOSTON GLOBE,
JOHN O'BRIEN TREATS THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT LIKE A
PRIVATE KINGDOM.
WHERE CONNECTION TRUMPS MERIT
WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING A
JOB.
THE GOVERNOR CALLS PROBATION A
ROGUE AGENCY AND WANTS THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL TO
INVESTIGATE.
AND REPUBLICAN NOMINEE CHARLIE
BAKER SAYS O'BRIEN SHOULD BE
FIRED.

>> WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A BIG
ISSUE HERE FROM AN
ACCOUNTABILITY AND A
TRANSPARENCY POINT OF VIEW.

>> Rooney: THIS PUT
INDEPENDENT GUBERNATORIAL
CANDIDATE TIM CAHILL IN AN
AWKWARD POSITION BECAUSE
O'BRIEN'S WIFE AND DAUGHTER
WORK AT THE STATE TREASURY
WHICH CAHILL SAYS THEY EARNED.

>> TWO OF THE EMPLOYEES OUT OF
THE 600 THAT I EMPLOY ARE
MEMBERS OF THIS FAMILY BECAUSE
THEY GOT THIS JOB BY APPLYING
FOR THE JOB AND BEING OF
QUALIFIED FOR THE JOB.

>> Reporter: CAHILL ADMITS THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT NEEDS
ATTENTION BUT BLAMES THE
LEGISLATURE FOR TAKING CONTROL
OF THE PROBATION SYSTEM AWAY
FROM THE STATE'S COURTS.

>> I BELIEVE THE SOLUTION IS
TO PUT PROBATION BACK UNDER
THE OVERSIGHT OF THE JUDICIARY
AWAY FROM THE LEGISLATIVE
BRANCH AND AWAY FROM THE
EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

>> Reporter: MEANWHILE THE
STATE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT
SUSPENDED PROBATION CHIEF JOHN
O'BRIEN TODAY.
AND APPOINTED AN INDEPENDENT
COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE THE
DEPARTMENT.
JOINING ME NOW IS THE
INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE FOR
GOVERNOR TIM CAHILL.
WELCOME.

>> NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> Rooney: FIRST, HOW WOULD
YOU CHARACTERIZE YOUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH JOHN
O'BRIEN.

>> I KNOW HIM.
I MEAN WE LIVE IN THE SAME
CITY.
IN THE SAME PART OF THE SAME
CITY.
HE HAS THREE DAUGHTERS.
I HAVE FOUR DAUGHTERS SO WE'VE
SEEN EACH OTHER AT DIFFERENT
SPORBTING EVENTS OVER THE
YEARS.
I DON'T KNOW HIM
PROFESSIONALLY THAT WELL AS
FAR AS HOW HE RUNS HIS OFFICE
AND HAVEN'T HAD ANY REAL
INTERACTION WITH HIM ON THAT.
BUT I HAVE HIRED TWO MEMBERS
OF HIS FAMILY.
I THINK THEY'RE VERY WELL
QUALIFIED AND HAVE DONE A
FANTASTIC JOB FOR ME AS PART
OF MY 600-PERSON OVERSIGHT.

>> Rooney: WERE YOU DIRECTLY
INVOLVED IN THEIR HIRING?

>> I DON'T REMEMBER.
I DON'T THINK SO.
THOSE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS
MADE TO ME.
I'M USUALLY NOT DIRECTLY
INVOLVED IN ANY HIRING IF WE
HAVE AN OPENING AND IN THIS
CASE I BELIEVE WE HAD
OPENINGS.
I GET RECOMMENDATIONS FROM
PEOPLE ON MY STAFF TO FILL
THOSE POSITIONS IN THE BEST
WAY THAT THEY POSSIBLY CAN.

>> Rooney: YOU HAVE TO ADMIT
IT LOOKS LIKE AN APPEARANCE OF
A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT THAT HAVE
GIVEN TO YOUR CAMPAIGN UP TO
$5900 I THINK IT WAS IN '05.
SOMEBODY WHO GOT A PROMOTION
ACCORDING TO THE BOSTON GLOBE
INSIDE THE PROBATION
DEPARTMENT HAD ALSO GIVEN TO
YOUR CAMPAIGN.
IT LOOKS LIKE A QUID PRO QUO.

>> BUT IT ISN'T.
I MEAN I THINK PEOPLE ARE FREE
TO GIVE ME, YOU KNOW,
CONTRIBUTE TO MY CAMPAIGN IN
ANYWAY THEY CAN.
IT WOULD BE NATURAL THAT
PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN QUINCY OR
PART OF THE SOUTH SHORE
COMMUNITY THAT I'VE
REPRESENTED FOR A NUMBER OF
YEARS WOULD KNOW WHO I AM AND
SUPPORT THE JOB I DO.
I'VE HAD NO BUSINESS
INTERACTIONS WITH THE
COMMISSIONER.
I NEVER CALLED HIM ON BEHALF
OF ANYBODY.
I'VE NEVER GOTTEN ANYONE IN MY
FAMILY HIRED AS YOU CAN SEE IN
THE LEGISLATURE.
IT SEEMS TO BE RAMPANT.

>> Reporter: YOU'RE A RARITY.

>> AND THAT'S WHERE I STAND
BY.
I MEAN, HE HAVEN'T TRIED TO,
YOU KNOW, PROMOTE MYSELF OR
PROMOTE MY OWN INDIVIDUAL
INTERESTS.
IN ANY OF THESE RELATIONSHIPS.
I JUST DO MY JOB.
IF I GET GOOD PEOPLE WHO I
THINK, YOU KNOW, CAN DO A GOOD
JOB, WE'LL PUT THEM TO WORK
AND THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS HAVE
BEEN WORKING VERY HARD FOR THE
TREASURY.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE
DONE A GOOD JOB IN TERMS OF
THE PERFORMANCE.
I MEAN THE....

>> Rooney: TWO MEMBERS OF THE
SAME FAMILY?
ISN'T THAT UNUSUAL.

>> IT MAY BE.
THEY'RE 600 PEOPLE THAT WORK
FOR ME.

>> Rooney: UNLESS YOU'RE THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT.

>> IT IS UNUSUAL IN OUR CASE.
TWO SEPARATE DIVISIONS OF THE
TREASURY LOTTERY IS SEPARATE
FROM TREASURY IN SOME WAYS,
DIFFERENT HIRING, DIFFERENT
H.R.DIRECTORS SO IT IS
UNUSUAL.
BUT THESE POSITIONS NEED TO BE
FILLED.
WE FILL THEM AND THE
RECOMMENDATIONS WERE THAT THEY
HIRE THESE TWO PEOPLE AS WELL
AS ANYONE ELSE.
I WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND
THAT I'M NOT, YOU AFRAID OR
OPPOSED TO HIRING PEOPLE IF I
DO KNOW THEM, IF THEY'RE
QUALIFIED.
AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK
THERE'S MORE PEOPLE THAT I
BELIEVE AND I KNOW THERE'S
MORE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR ME
THAT CAME ON BOARD THAT
WEREN'T ANY PART OF MY
POLITICAL OPERATION, WEREN'T
PART OF MY CAMPAIGN OR HAVE
STAYED ON FROM PREVIOUS
TREASURERS.
I MEAN WE DO BASE OUR
DECISIONS ON MERIT AT THE END
OF THE DAY.
BUT WE WON'T, YOU KNOW,
DISCARD BECAUSE WE KNOW THEM
AND WE DON'T DISCARD THEM IF
THEY DON'T KNOW THEM.

>> Rooney: YOU HAVE SAID THAT
WHAT'S GOING ON IN PROBATION
IS KIND OF STANDARD OPERATING
PROCEDURE.
A LOT OF GOVERNMENT OPERATES
THAT WAY.

>> YEAH, IT DOES.
THE LEGISLATURE MORE SO.
I THINK THIS COULD HAVE BEEN
AVOIDED IF THE LEGISLATURE HAD
LEFT THEIR HANDS OFF PROBATION.
I'VE SAID THAT, THAT PROBATION
SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN REMOVED
FROM THE JUDICIARY.

>> Rooney: WHY WAS IT?
SO THEY COULD STACK IT WITH
THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY IN.

>> I WOULD ASSUME.
THAT'S THE OUTCOME.
IT WAS A DISPUTE BETWEEN
FORMER SPEAKER FINNERAN AND
THE COURTS ABOUT WHO THEY
WANTED TO BE HIRED AND WHO HAD
CONTROL OVER HIRING.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU
MIX THE DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF
GOVERNMENT.
THAT'S WHY THE LEGISLATURE IS
SUPPOSED TO BE SEPARATE FROM
THE JUDICIARY AND THE
EXECUTIVE.
I PROPOSED GOVERNOR PATRICK'S
SOLUTION WHICH IS TO MOVE IT
TO THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE.
THAT WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM
AS WELL PUTTING THEM BACK WITH
JUDICIARY.

>> Rooney: WHY SHOULD IT BE
UNDER EXECUTIVE?

>> I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY
IT SHOULD BE.

>> Rooney: THE BOSTON
FOUNDATION, I THINK, THE
JUSTICE SOCIETY I THINK MADE
THAT RECOMMENDATION.

>> I THINK THE THING ABOUT
PROBATION EVEN WHEN
COMMISSIONER O'BRIEN WAS THERE,
IT WORKED VERY WELL, MUCH
BETTER WHEN IT WAS UNDER
JUDICIARY.
SO THAT'S WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE
STAYED.
THE FACT THAT IT WAS MOVED
BEFORE I CAME INTO OFFICE, IT
SHOULDN'T BE A REFLECTION ON
ME.
I DON'T OVERSEE THAT AGENCY.
I WOULDN'T STAND IT FOR IT IN
MY DEPARTMENT AS FAR AS MAKING
SURE THAT PEOPLE GET THE JOBS
WHO ARE QUALIFIED FOR THOSE
JOBS AND THEN WHEN THEY DO GET
PROMOTIONS THEY HAVE TO EARN
THOSE PROMOTIONS.
WE WOULDN'T SUCCEED.
I MEAN THERE HAVE BEEN
QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW PROBATION
HAS WORKED.
THERE'S BEEN PROBLEMS
INTERNALLY.
THOSE PROBLEMS WE DON'T AT
TREASURY BECAUSE WHEN WE PUT
PEOPLE TO WORK THEY DO THE
WORK.
THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED
TO DO AND THEY'RE QUALIFIED TO
DO.

>> Rooney: YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S
HAPPENING HERE.
YOU'RE BEING TARNISHED BY
ASSOCIATION.

>> SURE.

>> Rooney: JOHN O'BRIEN WAS
SUSPENDED TODAY.
NOW YOU HAVE HIS WIFE AND
DAUGHTER WORKING FOR YOU.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE PLAYING
HIS GAME.

>> I'M RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.
THAT'S A BIG PART OF IT.
I THINK THAT'S WHY I'M MORE
CONNECTED TO THIS STORY THAN I
SHOULD BE CONNECTED TO THIS
STORY.
I'M NOT TRYING TO AVOID THE
FACT THAT WE HIRED TWO PEOPLE
WHO I THINK HAVE DONE A GOOD
JOB.
NOT RECOMMENDED OR NOT CALLED
ON BEHALF BY THEIR HUSBAND OR
FATHER.
BUT GONE THROUGH THE SYSTEM.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE THINGS
COME UP IN GOVERNMENT.
THEY'LL NEVER TOTALLY GO AWAY
BUT WE SHOULD TRY TO MINIMIZE
THEM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
I HAVE FIVE TOP POSITIONS IN
MY OFFICE.
DEPUTY TREASURERS.
TWO OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
DEPUTY TREASURERS ARE PEOPLE
I'VE WORKED WITH IN THE PAST
BUT THREE OF THEM I NEVER KNEW
UNTIL I BECAME TREASURER.
YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT BALANCE.
THROUGH OUR SUCCESS, WE HAVE
PROVEN THAT IF WE HAD PUT
PEOPLE TO WORK JUST BECAUSE OF
THEIR CONNECTIONS WHO COULDN'T
DO THE JOB THE SYSTEM THAT I
OVERSEE WOULDN'T WORK.
THAT'S WHY I THINK IF I CAN
OVERSEE MORE OF GOVERNMENT
WE'LL MAKE IT WORK AND
ALLEVIATE MANY OF THOSE
PROBLEMS.

>> Rooney: IF YOU WERE
GOVERNOR AND LET'S JUST SAY
FOR NOW THAT THE PROCEED
PROBATION DEPARTMENT WENT BACK
UNTHE PURVIEW OF JUDICIARY,
WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU DO?
WOULD YOU GO IN THERE AND
CLEAN OUT PEOPLE?
I'M HAVING A HARD TIME
BELIEVING THEY EVEN NEED THAT
MANY EMPLOYEES.

>> IF ANYTHING, IF YOU FELT
THERE WAS TOO MUCH... TOO MANY
PEOPLE AT THE JOB, THEN YOU
WOULD HAVE TO CUT THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT THE
EXECUTIVE OFFICE SHOULD GO IN
AND TELL THE JUDICIARY HOW TO
RUN THEIR BUSINESS ANY MORE
THAN THE....

>> Rooney: THE JUDICIARY.

>> WHEN JOHN ADAMS CREATED THE
CONSTITUTION HE SEPARATED
THOSE POWERS FOR A REASON.
WE'RE SEEING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
THEY BECOME INTERMINGLEED.
YOU HAVE THE LEGISLATURE
OVERSEEING THE JUDICIAL BRANCH
OF GOVERNMENT AND YOU HAVE ALL
THESE PROBLEMS.
THERE WAS A THEFT AT THAT
OFFICE THAT WASN'T UNCOVERED
UNTIL AN AUDIT WAS DONE BY AN
OUTSIDE FIRM.
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU
DON'T HIRE QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO
DO THE JOB.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I
THINK WE HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY
IS WE HAVE HIRED QUALIFIED
PEOPLE TO DO OUR JOB.
WE'VE SUCCEEDED IN WHAT WE'VE
DONE.
WE'VE MADE THE TAX PAYER
MONEY.

>> Rooney: WHAT I'M GETTING AT
HERE IS MAYBE WE DON'T NEED
THIS PROBATION DEPARTMENT?
OBVIOUSLY, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T
QUALIFIED.

>> I THINK YOU DO NEED....

>> Rooney: WHAT GIVES THEM
SOMEBODY COMES IN ONCE A MONTH
WITH AN ANKLE BRACELET AND YOU
CHECK TO SEE IF IT'S STILL
THERE.

>> THERE ARE MANY QUALIFIED
PEOPLE.
IT APPEARS A LOT OF
UNQUALIFIED PEOPLE THOUGH.
I THINK WE HAVE TO SEPARATE
THOSE.

>> Rooney: THEY'RE PLAYING
CARDS AT LUNCH.

>> THAT HAPPENS IN A LOT OF
PARTS OF GOVERNMENT WHICH IS
WRONG.
I'M NOT DEFENDING.
YOU CAN'T THROW OUT THE BABY
WITH THE BATH WATER.
JUST LIKE THERE ARE ROGUE
COPS.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE ENTIRE
POLICE FORCE IS....

>> Rooney: MAKES YOU WONDER.

>> I THINK WITH PROBATION
BECAUSE NUMBERS ARE SO LARGE
AND THE STORIES HAVE BEEN
WRITTEN AND WRITTEN AND
WRITTEN.

>> Kelley:.

>> Rooney: IT'S ALSO A VAGUE
THIN.
PROBATION IS VAGUE.
YOU CHECK IN ONCE A MONTH.
IT HAS A MEANINGLESS ASPECT TO
IT.

>> IN MANY CASES IT FAILS
BECAUSE THEY DON'T KEEP TRACK
OF PEOPLE.

>> Rooney: I DON'T KNOW.

>> WHEN THEY LEAVE.

>> Rooney: YOU COME IN AND SAY
I HAVEN'T HAD A DRINK.
HOW DO THEY KNOW?

>> AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAVE
TO BE AWARE THAT WITHOUT
PROBATION THEN YOU WOULD LOCK
PEOPLE UP FOR A LONGER PERIOD
OF TIME.

>> Rooney: THAT'S PAROLE.

>> AND THE JAILS WOULD BE
OVERCROWDED.
MANY PEOPLE ARE PUT ON
PROBATION WHEN THEY LEAVE OR
PUT ON PROBATION BEFORE THEY
GO INTO COURT.
I THINK IT'S A NECESSARY PART.
I HATE TO SEE IT THROWN AWAY
BECAUSE IT'S NOT WORKING QUITE
WELL BECAUSE IT WORKED VERY
WELL.
IT WAS AN AWARD-WINNING AGENCY
WHEN IT WAS UNDER THE
JUDICIARY.

>> Rooney: WHY DID THIS HAPPEN
TO THE PROBATION DEPARTMENT IN
YOUR ESTIMATION AS OPPOSED TO,
I DON'T KNOW, HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES, SOMETHING ELSEWHERE
THAT BECAME THE PATRONAGEAGE
OUTFIT.
WHY PROBATION OF ALL PLACES?
IT MUST BE BECAUSE IT'S
USELESS AND EASY.

>> I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO
THAT.
IT HAPPENED BEFORE I CAME INTO
OFFICE.

>> Rooney: THERE'S GOT TO BE A
REASON.
EASY TO HIDE PEOPLE?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SOUGHT-OFF
POSITIONS.

>> Rooney: BECAUSE THERE'S
NOTHING TO DO.

>> IN SOME CASES MAYBE NOT FOR
THE NUMBERS THAT YOU HAVE.
MAYBE NOT FOR THE NUMBERS THAT
YOU HAVE.
THAT REALLY IS THE ISSUE.
IT'S CLEAR THAT THAT BUDGET
HAS GROWN AND GROWN AND GROWN
BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE HAS
CONTROL OF I.
THEY ARE STUFFING PEOPLE INTO
THAT AGENCY WHEN THEY PROBABLY
DON'T NEED TO BE STUFFED INTO
THAT AGENCY.
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T TAKE
THESE DIVISIONS OUT OF
AUTHORITY AND AWAY FROM THE
CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICES OR THE
CONSTITUTIONAL POSITIONS THAT
THEY'RE PUT IN.
THIS IS ALWAYS WHAT'S HAPPENED
WHEN YOU TRY TO MOVE PIECES
AROUND BECAUSE IT WORKS IN ONE
AREA AND IT DOESN'T WORK IN
ANOTHER AREA.

>> Rooney: LET ME ASK YOU
THIS.
THIS ACTUALLY ALL GOT STARTED
BY THE BOSTON FOUNDATION WHO
COMMISSIONED THIS STUDY.
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO REALLY
CAME UP WITH ALL THE DATA.
THEY'VE DONE A GREAT JOB.
THE GLOBE HAS LINKED ALL THE
DETAILS AND MASSAGED THIS.
WHY NOW ARE THEY REACTING TO
IT?
THIS BOSTON FOUNDATION REPORT
CAME OUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.
COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE DID A
FOLLOW-UP IN FEBRUARY.
IT'S LIKE NOW IT'S ON THE
FRONT PAGE OF THE GLOBE AND
SUDDENLY....

>> YOU HAVE TO ASK THAT
QUESTION TO THE SJC, WHY THEY
DIDN'T TAKE ACTION EARLIER.
EVERYONE FEELS THAT THEIR ARMS
ARE TIED BEHIND THEIR BACK
BECAUSE OF THE LEGISLATIVE
AUTHORITY.
WHEN THE GOVERNOR TRIED TO CUT
A BUDGET ITEM OUT OF THERE THE
LEGISLATURE RESTORED THE
MONEY.
THIS IS ABOUT LEGISLATIVE
OVERSIGHT AND CONTROL MORE
THAN IT IS STS.

>> Rooney: THIS IS THE KIND OF
THING THAT DRIVES PEOPLE
CRAZY.

>> IT IS ESPECIALLY IN AN
ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE'RE
CUTTING BUDGETS ALL ACROSS THE
STATE.

>> Rooney: TEACHERS.
WAIT A MINUTE.

>> IT GOES BACK TO HOW IT WAS
DONE BACK IN 2001 WHEN THE
LEGISLATURE WASN'T GETTING THE
RESPONSE TO THE HIRING
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY WERE
MAKING TO THE JUDICIARY SO
THEY TOOK THAT HIRING
PREROGATIVE AWAY FROM THEM.
IT HAS TO GO BACK FOR THE
SYSTEM TO FUNCTION.

>> Rooney: THE LEGISLATURE HAS
TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

>> THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO MAKE
THAT HAPPEN AND THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE NEEDS TO MAKE THAT
HAPPEN.
NOW THE GOVERNOR HAS... I
THINK MOVING IT TO THE
EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS THE WRONG
WAY TO GO.
I'M RUNNING TO LEAD THE
EXECUTIVE BRANCH BUT I BELIEVE
IT SHOULD GO BACK TO THE
JUDICIARY.
WE HAVE TO RESPECT THE BALANCE
OF POWER AND SEPARATION OF
POWER EVEN WHEN WE DON'T LIKE
THE ANSWER.
I'VE SAID NO TO MANY PEOPLE
WHO HAVE LOOKED FOR JOBS AND
WANT ME TO CREATE JOBS.
IF IT DOESN'T WORK, IT DOESN'T
WORK.
YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO
THAT.
IN THIS CASE IT WASN'T DONE.

>> Rooney: TIM CAHILL, ALWAYS
A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Rooney: WHEN WE CONTINUE,
THE NATICK COLLECTION, MAKING
IT THE MASSACHUSETTS.