>> TONIGHT ON "GREATER
BOSTON".
>> WILL BE SITTING HERE PARKED
AT THE WHARF AND IT WILL BE
COSTING ME MONEY.
>> BAY STATE FISHERMEN FURIOUS
OVER NEW REGULATIONS THEY
CLAIM WILL SINK THEM.
PLUS THE SHIFT OF POWER IN
GREAT BRITAIN AND WHAT IT
MEANS FOR THE UNITED STATES.
AND LAST CALL, DAN OKRENT'S
NEW BOOK ON PROHIBITION.
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GOOD EVENING.
THANKS TO RESTRICTIONS ON
COMMERCIAL FISHING, STOCKS OF
COD AND OTHER GROUND FISH IN
THE WATERS OFF NEW ENGLAND
HAVE MADE A REMARKABLE
COMEBACK.
THIS MONTH U.S. FISHERIES
OFFICIALS IMPLEMENTED MORE NEW
RULES, THEY SAY IT WILL
FINALLY BRING LOCAL FISHING
GROUNDS BACK TO FULL SUSTAIN
ABILITY.
BUT RESIDENTS OF FISHING
COMMUNITIES LIKE GLOUCESTER
AND NEW BEDFORD SAY THE NEW
RESTRICTIONS ARE SO COSTLY AND
CONFUSING THAT SMALL FISHERMEN
SOON COULD BE ON THE
ENDANGERED SPECIES THEMSELVES.
PHIL POWELL IS HAPPY WITH THE
HAUL OF COD AND SKATE HE'S
BROUGHT BACK TO GLOUCESTER,
BUT HE'S NOT SO PLEASED WITH
NEW FEDERAL RESTRICTIONS ON
NEW ENGLAND FISHERMEN.
>> THE QUOTA SYSTEM THAT'S IN
PLACE RIGHT NOW WITH THE QUOTA
THEY GIVE MY BOAT, MY SEASON
WILL BE OVER IN ABOUT TWO
MONTHS.
>> FEDERAL REGULATORS HAVE PUT
STRICT LIMITS ON HOW MUCH
LOCAL SPECIES FISHERMEN CAN
CATCH.
BUT POWELL SAYS NEW LOWER
CATCH LIMITS AND COMPLEX
MONITORING REQUIREMENTS ARE
MAKING IT HARD FOR SMALL
FISHERMEN TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
>> THEY RUSH THESE NEW
REGULATIONS IN TOO QUICK,
WE'VE HAD NEW COMPUTER SYSTEMS
INSTALLED IN THE BOAT.
MY COMPUTER SYSTEM CRASHED FOR
EIGHT DAYS IN A ROW.
RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT EVEN
WORKING.
>> IN AN EFFORT TO BLOCK THE
NEW REGULATIONS, THE CITIES OF
GLOUCESTER AND NEW BEDFORD
HAVE FILED SUIT SAYING THEIR
COMMUNITIES DEPEND ON SMALL
FISHERMEN AND SUPPORT
BUSINESSES LIKE CAPE POND ICE.
>> 74% OF OUR TONAGE, OUR ICE
SALES LAST YEAR WAS TOTALLY
FISHING RELATED, THAT'S ICE
PUT ON FISHING BOATS.
I SOLD TO FISH PROCESSORS,
RIGHT NOW WE'RE ANTICIPATING
LOSING MOST OF THAT TONAGE.
>> Reporter: GLOSSER IN MAYOR
KIRK SAYS CENTURIES OF
TRADITION ARE AT STAKE.
>> QULOSER THE HAS BEEN
FISHING FOR OVER 400 YEARS.
AND WITHOUT EXAGGERATION, THIS
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE
MANAGEMENT SCHEME COULD BE THE
END OF THE LINE OF THE GLOSER
FISHERMAN.
>> THE ATTORNEY WHO FILED THE
LAWSUIT SAYS FISHER MEN WHO
HELPED FISH LIKE COD AND
HADDOCK MAKE COMEBACKS ARE NOW
BEING FORCED OUT OF BUSINESS.
>> GROUND FISH STOCKS UNDER
BEST SHAPE THEY'VE BEEN IN ALL
OF OUR LIFE TIMES, YET OUR
EMPLOYMENT IS LOWER.
AND THE PROSPECT, THE BLEAKEST
THEY'VE EVER BEEN.
>> BUT AN ANALYST FOR THE
NATIONAL MARINE FISHERY
SERVICE SAYS NEW ENGLAND'S
FISHING GROUNDS ARE STILL
SEVERAL YEARS AWAY FROM BEING
FULLY RESTOCKED.
>> TO THEIR CREDIT THEY'VE
WORKED HARD, THEY'LL FOLLOWED
THE RULES UNDER THE SYSTEM FOR
YEARS.
IN SOME STOCKS WE'RE ALREADY
SEEING THAT, BUT NOT IN ALL.
SO THERE'S A GOAL OUT THERE,
IT'S TAKING TIME TO GET THERE.
>> ONCE THE FISHERY IS REBUILT
TO WHERE IT CAN SUSTAIN BOTH
FISH AND FISHERMEN FOR THE
LONG TERM, HE SAYS CATCHES AND
PROFITS WILL INCREASE.
>> AN ESTIMATE OVERALL IS THAT
WHEN ALL THE STOCKS ARE
REBUILT WE'RE LOOKING AT
PROBABLY THREE TIMES THE
LANDINGS WOULD BE AVAILABLE
THAT WE'RE GETTING NOW.
>> UNTIL THEN, SMALL FISHERMEN
LIKE PHIL WILL TRY TO HANG ON.
>> I FISHED FOR 26 YEARS, AND
THIS IS THE FIRST YEAR THAT
I'M GOING TO BE TIED UP FOR
MONTHS WITHOUT WORK.
>> TIED UP BY REGULATIONS THAT
ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MAKING
THINGS BETTER.
JOINING ME NOW IS PATRICIA
KURKUL, THE NORTHEAST HEAD OF
THE NATIONAL MARINE FISHERY
SERVICE.
NEW BEDFORD MAYOR SCOTT LANG,
AND RICHARD BURGESS, A
COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN FROM
GLOUCESTER.
WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> YOU HEARD THE CRITICS,
THEY'RE SAYING THIS REALLY
FAVORS THE BIG FISHERMEN,
BECAUSE OF THE FLEETS, THE
BIGGER BOATS, AND IT LIMITS
PEOPLE LIKE WE JUST SAW
TALKING ABOUT THIS THAT HE
SAYS HE'S GOING TO BE OUT OF
BUSINESS IN TWO MONTHS, OR
HE'LL HAVE TO STOP FISHING.
CONE THE REGULATIONS HAVE BEEN
WRITTEN IN A WAY TO HELP THE
SMALLER FISHERMAN?
>> WELL, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE
TO HELP BOTH THE SMALL AND THE
LARGE FISHERMEN.
THE NEW REGULATIONS, WHEN THEY
SHOULD DO IS PROVIDE A LOT
MORE FLEXIBILITY TO EVERYBODY
INVOLVED.
WE DO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE
WE'VE GOT, WE MADE A LOT OF
PROGRESS IN STOCKS, WE'VE MADE
A LOT OF PROGRESS REBUILDING
STOCKS.
IT'S NOT INCONCEIVABLE THAT WE
COULD HAVE HAD OVERFISHING ON
SOME OF THESE STOCKS FOR OVER
100 YEARS NOW, SO WE'RE
DIGGING OUT OF A PRETTY DEEP
HOLE.
>> BUT HOW DO YOU RESPOND WHEN
HE SAYS I'M GOING TO HAVE TO
STOP FISHING?
IS HE EXAGGERATING?
>> I THINK EVERYBODY IS
UNDERSTANDABLY APPREHENSIVE
ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE IT A HUGE
CHANGE FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED.
IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE WAY
EVERYBODY DOES BUSINESS.
THE FISHING INDUSTRY,
EVERYBODY INVOLVED IN THE
FISHING INDUSTRY, THE
GOVERNMENT.
BUT THE PROGRAM DOES PROVIDE A
LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY.
WE DO HAVE REDUCTIONS IN CATCH
LEVELS, AND THAT'S AS A RESULT
OF THE, OF HAVING STILL 12
STOCKS WHERE WE HAVE
OVERFISHING ON THOSE STOCKS
OUT OF THE 20 THAT WE'RE
MANAGING IN THIS FISHERY.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS, YES,
WE'VE REDUCED CATCH LEVELS TO
TRY TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE
HAVE SUSTAINABLE RESOURCES.
BUT WE'VE DONE IT AT THE SAME
TIME THAT WE'VE PUT IN THIS
NEW PROGRAM CALLED SECTOR
MANAGEMENT OR COOPERATIVE TYPE
MANAGEMENT.
>> WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO NEW
BEDFORD?
14 MEMBERS OF OUR
CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION MET
WITH GARY LOCK TODAY, THE
SECRETARY OF WILD WIFE IN
WASHINGTON TODAY ABOUT
STOPPING THESE FROM GOING
AHEAD.
BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO NEW
BEDFORD?
>> HERE'S THE PROBLEM WITH IT.
I THINK, SKIED FOR A TEMPORARY
DELAY ON THE MAY 1st DATE TO
IMPLEMENT CATCH SHARES IN THE
SECTOR PROGRAM.
BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK THE
GOVERNMENT WAS READY.
AND I'M TO MAYOR OF A CITY, I
AM PART OF GOVERNMENT, I
DIDN'T THINK THAT OUR FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT WAS READY FOR THIS
FISHERIES.
WE HAVE A BILLION DOLLAR
INDUSTRY IN NEW BEDFORD, 4,000
PEOPLE DEPEND ON THIS.
FISHING INDUSTRY.
IN GLOUCESTER IT ONE OF THE
KEY ECONOMIC SECTORS.
THROUGHOUT NEW ENGLAND, EVERY
SINGLE FOR THAT WE HAVE TALKED
TO INDICATES THAT WE'RE GOING
TO SEE DRAMATIC DECLINES IN
THE NUMBER OF VESSELS, THE
NUMBER OF FAMILIES WHO ARE
SUPPORTED BY FISHING.
AND WE DON'T THINK THERE'S
REALLY A NEED FOR IT.
WE THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE,
IT OVERLY RESTRICTIVE.
WE HAVEN'T SPENT THE TIME TO
EXPLAIN TO THE INDUSTRY
EXACTLY HOW IT WILL WORK.
THERE'S NEW SCIENCE COMING
DOWN THE LINE VERY QUICKLY
THAT WILL INCREASE THE NUMBER
OF ALLOCATIONS FOR FISH THAT
CAN BE CAUGHT IN CERTAIN
SPECIES, THE LOWEST SPECIES
WHICH ARE CALLED RIGHT NOW
CHOKE SPECIES, SO YOUR POLLOCK,
YOUR WINTER FLOWNER, SKATE
THEY JUST RAISED SLIGHTLY,
MAINE COD, DIFFERENT SPECIES
THAT WE KNOW THERE'S MORE FISH
OUT THERE THAN THE GOVERNMENT
IS PORTRAYING.
AND SOON THE GOVERNMENT WILL
ROLL THESE NEW NUMBERS OUT.
BUT IN THE MEANTIME IT SEEMED
TO US, RATHER THAN GETTING
INVOLVED IN A SYSTEM THAT
EVERYONE IS APPREHENSIVE ABOUT,
LET'S DO IT RIGHT.
BARNEY FRANK TODAY TOLD
SECRETARY LOCK, THIS CATCH
SHARE SYSTEM IS SOMETHING THAT
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD
LIKE TO SEE AS A MODEL AROUND
THE COUNTRY.
IF IT FAILS IN NEW ENGLAND IN
A MULTI SPECIES SETTING, IT'S
GOING TO FAIL EVERYWHERE.
SO I THINK THEY RUSHED THE GUN
ON IT, I THINK THEY SHOULD
HAVE HELD BACK.
AND UNTIL THEY GET THE NEW
ALLOCATIONS IN THIS IS NOT
GOING TO WORK.
IN NEW BEDFORD THEY'RE SAYING
60% OF THE FLEET WILL BE DONE
FISHING BY MID JULY TO THE
BEGINNING OF AUGUST.
THAT'S GOING TO BE A HECK OF A
NUMBER OF PEOPLE OUT ON
UNEMPLOYMENT.
WITH THIS RECESSION THIS IS A
PROBLEM.
>> RICH, WE'VE HEARD FROM
FISHERMEN IN THE PAST, AND
FRANKLY THEY OFTEN TAKE A SKY
IS FALLING APPROACH.
IS IT REALLY GOING TO BE THAT
DIRE FOR A GUY LIKE YOU?
>> WELL, I'M SECTOR, I'M A
LEADER OF SECTOR NUMBER THREE
IN GLOUCESTER, WE HAVE 41
WORKING BOATS.
AND GOING INTO THE SECTOR
MANAGEMENT, THERE'S NOT ONE
BOAT IN MY SECTOR THAT HAS
ENOUGH FISH TO LAST THROUGH
THE YEAR, IF NOT JUST THREE
MONTHS.
SO WE FEEL AS THOUGH THAT OUR
SECTOR WILL BE TOTALLY
COLLAPSED BY SEPTEMBER.
>> UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR?
>> I DON'T THINK WE'LL MAKE TO
IT THE EBB OF THE YEAR.
>> I MEAN IN THREE MOMENT AND
THEN YOU CAN'T FISH AT ALL?
>> RIGHT.
WE'LL BE TIED TO THE DOCK WITH
NO INCOME.
>> THIS ISN'T APPREHENSION,
THIS IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT.
THIS IS THEIR LIVELIHOOD.
IT MEANS THEY'VE GOT TO STOP
WORKING WHICH MEANS THERE'S NO
INCOME COME SEPTEMBER.
>> WELL, WE DID DO THE
ECONOMIC ANALYSIS, AND I WOULD
DISAGREE THAT WE'VE RUSHED
THIS.
IN FACT THIS WAS DELAYED FOR
ONE YEAR AND WE WERE THREE
YEARS IN DEVELOPMENT.
WE THINK IT'S READY, BUT
CHANGE IS HARD.
AND SO WE DID DO THE ECONOMIC
ANALYSIS ON THIS, WE LOOKED AT
WHAT THE IMPACTS WOULD BE ON
PEOPLE.
>> DID YOU RECOGNIZE THAT THAT
WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?
>> WE WEEK THAT PEOPLE HAVE
THE OPTION UNDER SECTORS OF
WHEN THEY FISH THEIR
ALLOCATION.
AND SO THERE'S THE FLEXIBILITY
THERE TO FISH IT NOW, FISH IT
AT THE END OF THE YEAR, FISH
IT BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR.
THAT'S A DECISION THAT WE NOW
LEAVE UP TO THE SECTORS.
>> LET ME ASK THE MAYOR, SOME
PEOPLE WOULD SAY THIS IS LIKE
THE SMALLEST PHARMACYS THAT
HAVE ALL GONE OUT OF BUSINESS,
AND THE BIG ONES HAVE COME IN.
IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.
AND MAYBE EASIER TO CONTROL IF
IT'S JUST THE BIG FLEET ARE
OUT THERE, NOT MONITORING AWE
THESE SMALL FISHERMEN ALL THE
TIME.
>> IF THAT'S GOVERNMENT'S GAME
PLAN, THEN LET'S DO A BUYOUT
WHERE THEY DON'T REISSUE THE
LICENSES OR LET'S COME UP WITH
PRICE SUBSIDIES, SOMETHING
LIKE THAT.
BUT IF THEY'RE REALLY IN A
MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, THEY'RE
SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE
INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED IN THE
INDUSTRY AS WELL.
AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT,
AND I DON'T WANT TO BE
DISRESPECTFUL, BUT I DO THINK
THAT THEY RUSHED THIS.
I KNOW IN THE PORTS OF NEW
BEDFORD AND IN GLOUCESTER
AROUND NEW ENGLAND PEOPLE
DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.
THEY HAVEN'T GOTTEN THEIR
ALLOCATIONS, THE SOFTWARE
WASN'T READY, THE MONITORING
SYSTEM IS NOT READY.
AND IT IS GOING TO CLAMS AN
INDUSTRY THAT PROVIDES
LITERALLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF
JOBS FROM VIRGINIA UP TO
MAINE.
AND IT'S SOMETHING DURING THIS
RECESSION IS COMPLETELY
NEEDLESS.
THEY CAN'T TELL YOU HOW THESE
RULES PROTECT THE FISH.
WHAT I'VE SAID ALL ALONG, WE
CAN TELL YOU HOW THEY DO
AFFECT THE PEOPLE.
AND PART OF MAG ANY SON
STEVENS IS THIS BALANCE,
THERE'S SUSTAIN ABILITY OF THE
INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE WORKING
WATER FRONTS.
GLOUCESTER'S WORKING WATER
FRONT IS DISAPPEARING.
NEW BEDFORD'S IS STILL HEALTHY,
BUT IF IT TAKES A 60% CUT, NEW
BEDFORD'S WORKING WATER FRONT
WILL BE GONE VERY VERY
SHORTLY.
AND I THINK, HERE'S WHAT I
WOULD DO. I WOULD EMPOWER THE
INDUSTRY AND THE SCIENTISTS
WHO WORK ON THIS, A LONG WITH
THE GOVERNMENT, TO COME UP
WITH A FISHERIES PLAN THAT
PROTECTS THE SPECIES.
I THINK FISHERMEN ARE THE
NUMBER ONE CONSERVATIONISTS ON
THE WATER, AND PROTECTS THE
PEOPLE IN THIS INDUSTRY.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT HARD.
BUT THERE'S BEEN SUCH
INFLEXIBILITY AND RELUCTANCE
BY NOAA AND THE FISHERIES
SERVICE TO LOOK AT THIS IN A
DIFFERENT WAY, THAT IT REALLY
IS COMING TO A LOGGER HEAD
HERE.
>> LET ME BRING RICHARD BACK
IN.
DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE WELL
INFORMED BY THE GOVERNMENT IN
TERMS OF HOW THE SYSTEM WOULD
WORK, HOW THE MONITORING WORKS,
HOW THE REGULATION WORKS?
I REALIZE THERE'S 19 DIFFERENT
SPECIES AND EACH ONE IS A
DIFFERENT QUOTA SYSTEM.
IS IT ALL THERE FOR YOU TO
READ OVER AND ABSORB IF YOU
WANT TO?
>> NO.
EVERYBODY IS CONFUSED.
THERE'S NOT ONE FISHERMAN THAT
I KNOW OF --
>> WHOSE FAULT IS THAT?
>> FISHERY SERVICE.
>> BECAUSE, YOU DON'T HAVE THE
DATA?
>> MY MAILBOX IS FILLED WITH
MAIL EVERY DAY, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
PAPERS, DOCUMENTS, I WOULD
HAVE TO HAVE A LAWYER TO READ
EVERYTHING THROUGH TO TELL ME
HOW KID AND CAN'T FISH.
THIS SECTOR MANAGEMENT SYSTEM,
BEFORE THE SECTOR MANAGEMENT
STARTED MAY 1RKS WE HAD DAYS
AT SEA, EVERYBODY COULD GO
FISHING FOR THE DAY, CATCH
YOUR 800 POUNDS OF COD FISH,
UNLOAD, GO HOME.
THE PAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS
UNDER DAYS AT SEA, EACH SMALL
VESSEL HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO
CATCH 800 POUNDS A DAY.
WE CAN MAKE BETWEEN 150 AND
180 TRIPS A YEAR.
THAT CALCULATES TO BE AROUND
10 TO 150,000 POUNDS OF JUST
COD FISH ALONE.
GO INTO THE SECTOR MANAGEMENT,
WITH THE ALLOCATION WE GOT FOR
A HISTORY, AND OUR HISTORY WAS
BASED ON YEARS THAT SOME YEARS
WE COULD ONLY CATCH 30 POUNDS
OF COD FISH A YEAR, SO WE WENT
TO ALTERNATIVE FISHERIES.
FROM 1996 TO 2006 OUR WORST
YEARS DURING THE REBUILDING,
THAT'S WHAT OUR HISTORY WAS
BASED AND NOW THERE ARE BOATS
WITH ANYWHERES FROM MY BIGGEST
BOAT'S GOT 7,000 POUND OF COD
FISH FOR THE YEAR.
LAST SATURDAY HE WENT OUT AND
THE CAPTAIN GOT 6500 POUNDS.
THE BOAT IS FINISHED FOR THE
YEAR.
SO THE AVERAGE BODY HAS GOT
AROUND 20, 25,000 POUNDS FOR
THE YEAR, WHEN THEY WERE
CATCHING BETWEEN 120 AND
180,000.
>> DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO
THAT?
>> YES. FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE
ANY WAY THAT WE'RE NOT GOING
TO SEE THE DIND OF REDUCTIONS
THAT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED
ABOUT, IN FACT WE'RE EXPECTING
TO SEE INCREASES IN REVENUE
BECAUSE THE INCREASE, WE'VE
WORKED WITH THE INDUSTRY,
THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF
MEETINGS WITH THE INDUSTRY OF
PEOPLE IN THE PORTS OF
OUTREACH TO TRY TO EXPLAIN
THIS NEW SYSTEM.
THIS IS NOT A NEW TYPE OF
SYSTEM.
THIS IS A SYSTEM WE'VE HAD AT
LEAST IN ONE FORM OR, WE'VE
HAD ONE SECTOR THAT STARTED IN
2004 AND ANOTHER IN 2006,
THEY'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.
THE FISHERMEN IN THOSE SECTORS,
WHICH ARE SMALL BOATS, ARE
VERY HAPPY WITH IT.
AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S
ACTUALLY BEEN TRIED IN OTHER
PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, OTHER
PARTS OF THE WORLD.
AND HAS WORKED VERY WELL IN
REDUCING DISCARDS, REDUCING
COSTS AND INCREASING REVENUES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE SHALL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> WHEN WE CONTINUE, BRITAIN'S
POWER CHANGE AND IT'S PAYMENT
OCTOBER THAN AMERICA.
IT'S IMPACT ON AMERICA.