May 10, 2010: A growing rift between Gov. Patrick and police

>> Rooney: IN HIS FIRST TERM
AS GOVERNOR, DEVAL PATRICK
TARGETED SOME COVETED PERKS
ENJOYED BY MASSACHUSETTS
POLICE.
BUDGET WATCHDOGS CHEERED BUT
POLICE DIDN'T.
AND NOW TENSION BETWEEN
PATRICK AND LAW ENFORCEMENT IS
BECOMING A CAMPAIGN ISSUE.
GOVERNOR DEVAL PATRICK SCOFFED
AT THE NOTION THAT HE'S
UNFAIRLY TARGETING LAW
ENFORCEMENT.

>> THAT'S JUST WRONG.
WE NEED GOOD, WELL EDUCATED,
WELL PREPARED AND WELL
EQUIPPED LAW ENFORCEMENT.
I HAVE SUPPORTED IN EVERY WAY
THAT I CAN AS GOVERNOR THOSE
VALUES.

>> Rooney: EXCEPT THAT HE'S
CUT FUNDING TO THE QUINN BILL
WHICH PAYS POLICE OFFICERS TO
GET ADVANCED DEGREES.
HE'S ALSO REPLACED POLICE
DETAILS WITH CIVILIAN FLAGERS
AT SOME CONSTRUCTION SITES.
STATE POLICE ASSOCIATION OF
MASSACHUSETTS HEDRICK BROWN
SAYS HIS MEMBERS FEEL
BESIEGED.

>> EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING
DONE TO MEMBERS OF LAW
ENFORCEMENT, IT FEELS LIKE,
YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S THE
QUINN BILL, THE FLAGMEN,
PENSION REFORM, HEALTH
INSURANCE, EVERY BENEFIT THAT
YOU BARGAINED FOR OVER MY 30-
YEAR CAREER THEY'RE NOW TAKING
THAT AWAY.

>> Reporter: THE NEWSPAPER OF
THE BOSTON POLICE PATROLMEN'S
ASSOCIATION CLAIMS THAT
PATRICK HATES POLICE OFFICERS.
AND TOGETHER WE CAN VOTE DEVAL
OUT STICKERS HAVE BEEN SPOTTED
ON SOME OFFICERS' PRIVATE
CARS.
FOR HIS PART, BROWN PRAISES
PATRICK FOR AVOIDING STATE
POLICE LAY-OFFS BUT WARNS THAT
CURRENT FRUSTRATIONS COULD
LEAD TO A MASS EXODUS OF STATE
TROOPERS.

>> RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 700-800
PEOPLE WHO COULD LEAVE THE
DEPARTMENT TOMORROW FOR
RETIREMENT.
IF THAT HAPPENS, I MEAN, IT
WOULD BE DEVASTATING TO THE
DEPARTMENT AND TO THE
COMMONWEALTH.

>> Reporter: THE GOVERNOR
ANSWERS THAT HE'S PROTECTING
TAX PAYERS AT A TIME WHEN
THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH MONEY
TO GO AROUND.

>> WHEN THE BOTTOM IS FALLING
OUT OF EVERYTHING ELSE FROM
THE FISCAL PERSPECTIVE, IT IS
VERY, VERY HARD TO JUSTIFY
100% FUNDING FOR THE QUINN
BILL.
49 OTHER STATES HAVE A
COMBINATION OF CIVILIAN
FLAGERS AND POLICE DETAILS.
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE HERE.

>> Reporter: WHETHER VOTERS
SEE PATRICK'S REFORMS AS
POLITICALLY COURAGEOUS OR AS
BUDGETARY SCAPEGOATING WILL
HELP DECIDE WHETHER HE KEEPS
HIS JOB IN NOVEMBER.
JOINING ME NOW IS JAMES, THE
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
MASSACHUSETTS POLICE
ASSOCIATION AND DEMOCRATIC CON
SUMENTANT MICHAEL GOLDMAN.
WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.
JAMES, DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH
THE GOVERNOR IS UNFAIRLY
SINGLING OUT OR TARGETING LAW
ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE PENSION
REFORM AFFECTS EVERYBODY.
ALL STATE WORKERS, OTHER
UNIONS.
THERE ARE SOME FLAGERS IS A
WHOLE OTHER ISSUE.
DO YOU FEEL UNFAIRLY TARGETED.

>> EMILY, WE DO IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT.
IT HASN'T ONLY BEEN THE QUINN
BILL AND FLAGERS BUT THERE'S
BEEN 20 MILLION TAKEN FROM
COMMUNITY POLICING, 10 MILLION
MORE FROM ANTI-GANG GRANTS.
THESE ARE THINGS AND VEHICLES
AND RESOURCES THAT POLICE USE
TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC EACH AND
EVERYDAY.

>> Rooney: BUT I MEAN HE'S
LOOKING AT THOSE AND SAYING
MAYBE THEY'RE NOT NECESSARY.
IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?

>> WE WOULD THINK THE
COMMUNITY POLICING AND
ANTI-GARANG ARE VERY NECESSARY
ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE CRIMES
RECENTLY.

>> Rooney: I KNOW YOU DON'T
SPEAK FOR ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT.
ARE YOU BACKING A CANDIDATE
OTHER THAN PATRICK?

>> WE HAVE NOT.
BUT THE FRUSTRATION IN THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY....

>> Rooney: WE'VE SEEN THE
STICKERS AROUND A LITTLE BIT.
TOGETHER WE CAN VOTE DEVAL OUT
OR ON SOME POLICE CARS,
PERSONAL CARS NOT ON THEIR
CRUISERS.
IS THIS GOING TO BE A BIG
CAMPAIGN ISSUE, DO YOU THINK,
MICHAEL?

>> IT IS.
THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT
PENSION REFORM AND ETHICS
REFORM ARE THINGS THE PUBLIC
WANTED.
THEY WANTED IT IN 16 YEARS OF
REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS AND
DEVAL HAS DELIVERED ON THOSE
THINGS.
ONE OF THE THINGS JIMMY AND I
WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE SAME SIDE
OF A LOT OF BATTLES TOGETHER,
AS I SAID TO HIM, 16 YEARS OF
WELLS, CELLUCCI, SWIFT AND
ROMNEY SAYING THAT DETAILS IN
49 STATES ARE MICKED OR ALL
FLAGERS, WHY ARE WE PAYING
THIS HIGH RATE FOR FOUR-HOUR
SHIFTS FOR MASSACHUSETTS?
IN THE POLLING, THERE ARE TWO
THING THE PUBLIC LIKES
OVERWHELMINGLY.
NUMBER ONE INTERESTINGLY
ENOUGH IS COMPETITION IN
INSURANCE.
NUMBER 2 IS THE FLAGMEN.

>> Rooney: THEY WANT CIVILIAN
FLAGMEN.

>> MUCH LESS SO THAN THE OTHER
BIGGER MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES
LIKE PENSION REFORM.
THEY LIKE THESE BECAUSE SHE'S
HAVE BEEN THE TARGETS OF
REPUBLICANS.
WHAT'S MORE INTERESTING IS THE
COMPLETE REVERSAL BY THE
REPUBLICANS WHO NOW PRESUMABLY
KNOWING THAT THERE'S
CONSTITUENTS OUT THERE THAT
DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE SUDDENLY
YOU HAVE PARTICULARLY THE
REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE CHARLIE
BAKER TALKING ABOUT MAYBE WE
SHOULDN'T BE DOING THESE
THINGS WHICH IS A COMPLETE
REVERSAL FROM 16 YEARS OF DRUM
BEATING.

>> Rooney: DO YOU FEEL THAT'S
A GENUINE POSITION ON THE PART
OF CHARLIE BAKER?
HE SAID THAT WE SHOULD FULLY
FUND THE QUINN BILL OR AT
LEAST NOT PUT OUT THE BACKS OF
CITIES AND TOWNS WHICH IS THE
WAY IT'S BEING CONFIGURED AT
LEAST IN THIS INTERIM PERIOD?

>> I THINK SINCE 1990, THE
QUINN BILL HAS BEEN FUNDED.
IT HAS BEEN THE PRIORITY OF
REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS,
EDUCATING, HAVING AN EDUCATED
POLICE OFFICER....

>> Rooney: BUT THEY ALWAYS
TALKED ABOUT GETTING RID OF
IT.
RIGHT?

>> IT WAS PART OF THEIR
PLATFORM TO GET RID OF THE
QUINN BILL AND THE FLAGERS.

>> THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS
BEEN... THAT'S....

>> THE IRONIC PART IS THE LAST
TIME WAS UNDERFUNDED IT WAS
UNDER THE DEMOCRATIC
ADMINISTRATION.
DUKAKIS THROUGHOUT THE '80s.
THAT IS WHY IT'S FALL OWN THE
BACKS OF THE MUNICIPALITIES
BECAUSE THROUGH COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING, VARIOUS UNIONS
HAVE NOW NEGOTIATED TO SAY,
LISTEN, IF STATE DOES NOT LIVE
UP TO THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN
WHICH THEY DID NOT IN THE '80s,
WE WANT SOME CERTAINTY.
COMMUNITIES HAVE SAID WE'LL
GIVE YOU THAT CERTAINTY.

>> IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO PUT
THIS IN THE SPEHR TEKT I HAVE.
I UNDERSTAND, JIM AND THE
POLICEMEN'S SENSE OF BEING, IF
YOU WILL, OF BEING SURROUNDED.
ORND IT'S BAD EVERYWHERE.
PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IN
THE PUBLIC SECTOR THAT THE
PUBLIC IS SCARED ABOUT THE
BUDGET STUFF.
EDUCATION HAS BEEN HURT
TERRIBLY.
THE POLICE ARE ONE PIECE OF
THE GIANT MOSAIC.
THAT'S NOT TO SAY IT'S BEEN
TARGETED.

>> Rooney: IF YOU LOOK AT
WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
WITH THE BOSTON FIREFIGHTERS,
PEOPLE ARE OUTRAGED ABOUT IT.
19%.
I DIDN'T GET A 19%.
THEY LOOKED AT THE POLICE AND
SAY WAIT A SECOND.
THEY GET CALLED IN FOR A SHIFT
AND WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW,
A PART-TIME THING EVEN IF THEY
ONLY WORK 15 MINUTES THEY GET
PAID FOR FOUR HOURS.
THEY CAN MAKE AS WE SAW LAST
WEEK UP TO $250,000 A YEAR.
PEOPLE LNT FEELING BADLY FOR
THE POLICE.

>> WELL, I THINK, EMILY, WHAT
I REALLY WORRY ABOUT IS USING
THE EXCEPTIONS AS THE RULES.
THOSE PEOPLE EARNING THOSE
MONEY WORK EXORBITANT AMOUNTS
OF HOURS.
THAT IS NOT THE NORM IN POLICE
SERVICE.
I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF
AND A CITY LIKE FALL RIVER
WHERE I'M A POLICE SERGEANT.
THERE WERE NINE PEOPLE WHO
MADE $100,000.
THOSE WERE THE CHIEF AND THE
DEPUTY CHIEF AND FOUR OR FIVE
OTHERS.
THAT IS NOT THE NORM.
I THINK IF THERE'S ONE THING
THAT I'D LIKE TO SAY LET'S NOT
USE THE EXCEPTIONS.

>> Rooney: HOW ABOUT THE FOUR-
HOUR CALL APPLIES TO
EVERYBODY.

>> THAT CAN APPLY TO A DETAIL
RATE.

>> Rooney: YOU CAN JUSTIFY
THAT THOUGH.

>> I THINK THAT'S GENERAL
LABOR LAW.

>> Rooney: WE HAVE THAT HERE
TOO, I SHOULD SAY.

>> NO ONE IS TRYING TO TAKE
THAT AWAY.
I THINK THAT WHEN YOU SEE THE
POLLING, PEOPLE WANT A
POLICEMAN AT A FUNERAL OR AT A
SITE 4 WHERE THERE WILL BE A
LOT OF PEOPLE.
WHAT THEY DON'T LIKE IS THE
FLAGMAN ISSUE BECAUSE THEY
DON'T BELIEVE... THE POLICEMEN
HAVE NOT MADE THE CASE THAT
YOU REALLY NEED THEM THERE.
HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK
THERE'S A REALLY INTERESTING
BIG PICTURE HERE THAT'S
FASCINATING.
THAT IS YOU MAY SEE THE MAN...
YOU HAVE CHARLIE BAKER NOW
TRYING TO GET TO THE RIGHT OF
TIM CAHILL ON THIS ISSUE OF
PUBLIC SAFETY.
THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW HE
MAKES THE CASE AFTER YEARS OF
OF SAYING THIS IS WHAT MAKES
THE DEMOCRATS... WE'RE IN THE
TANK TO THE UNIONS.
NOW SUDDENLY HE'S TURNING
AROUND AT THIS VERY MOMENT
WHERE THERE SEEMS TO BE SYSTEM
ATIC CHANGES AND SAYS, NO, NO,
NO.

>> Rooney: WHAT ABOUT THAT?
DO YOU CARE ABOUT PARTY OR
PERSONS?
DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN
TRADITIONALLY ALIGNED WITH
UNIONS.
BUT IF YOU SEE THAT CHARLIE
BAKER IS HEADING INTO YOUR
CAMP OR WOULD YOU LOOK TO TIM
CAHILL SLIGHTLY MORE CLEAN
SLATE ON THAT?

>> WE HAVE A DIFFERENT STATE.
WE'VE BEEN WITH CANDIDATES ON
BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, WITH
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.
WE'VE SAID AND VETTED
CANDIDATES.
WE TRY AND GET FROM THEM WHAT
WE THINK IS BASICALLY A SEAT
AT THE TABLE.
THAT'S WHAT WE LOOK FOR.
SOMEONE WHO GIVE US A SEAT AT
THE TABLE WHERE WE CAN
HOPEFULLY HAVE OUR CONCERNS
MET.

>> Rooney: LAST TIME AROUND
THE ENDORSEMENTS OF THE UNIONS,
THE LAW ENFORCEMENT UNIONS
DIDN'T MEAN MUCH FOR KERRY
HEALEY.
WILL IT MATTER THIS MUCH?

>> IT'S A BIG PROBLEM FOR ALL
UNIONS.
YOU'VE KNOWN ME A LONG TIME,
CLOSE TO 40 YEARS.
NO ONE IS A BIGGER UNION
PERSON THAN I AM.
MY DAUGHTER IS A LABOR LAWYER.
THOSE THINGS MATTER TO ME.
THE TRUTH IS THAT THE LABOR
YUN UNIONS CAN CONTROL THEIR
MEMBERS.
REAGAN IN THE 1980s, IN THE
SLOW SLIDE.
WHEN THEY STAND UP AND SAY
THAT YOU'RE VOTING FOR A
CANDIDATE THAT'S AGAINST OUR
INTEREST, THEY CAN'T CONTROL
THEM.
AT SOME POINT POLITICIANS ARE
GOING TO SAY WHAT'S THE POINT?
I'M TAKING THE POLITICAL HEAT
FOR BEING WITH YOU AND I'M NOT
GETTING THE VOTERS.
THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S NOT
JUST POLICE BUT IT'S THE SE
EECHT U, AND THE TRADES AND
ALL THESE GUYS HAVE GOT TO
LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND SAY HOW
DO WE GET OUR PEOPLE TO
UNDERSTAND THAT WE STAND FOR
REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO
STAND FOR US.
YOU HAVE TO WORK AND VOTE FOR
THEM.
IT ISN'T HAPPENING.
IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN OR A
DEMOCRAT YOU HAVE TO SAY WHY
AM I TAKING THE POLITICAL HEAT
WITH NO GAIN.

>> Rooney: GOOD ISSUE.
THANKS.
WHEN WE CONTINUE, THE
DIFFICULTY IN FINDING A CAB IN
THE SEAPORT DISTRICT.