WHEN MASSACHUSETTS' VOTERS
HEAD TO THE POLLS THIS
FALL, THEY'RE WEIGH IN ON
QUESTION NUMBER THREE,
WHICH WOULD CUT THE STATE
SALES TAX FROM 6.25 TO 3%.
SUPPORTERS SAY THE
ROLLBACK WOULD BOOST SMALL
BUSINESSES, BUT OPPONENTS
WARN OF DIRE CONSEQUENCES
FOR ENTREPRENEURS AND
EVERYBODY ELSE.
CONVENIENCE STORE MAG NAT
CHRISTIE MILES IS SO EAGER
TO CUT THE STATE SALES
TAX, THAT HE HAS DONATED
MORE THAN $20,000 TO THE
ROLLBACK EFFORT.
>> WHAT IT DOES IS PUT
MONEY BACK IN THE PEOPLE'S
POCKET.
>> Rooney: HE IS SURE IF
THE ROLLBACK PASSES,
BUSINESS NEAR THE
MASSACHUSETTS BORDER WILL
START TO BOOM.
>> PEOPLE WILL BE FLOCKING
INTO NEW BEDFORD,
ATTLEBORO, SEACONK.
>> Rooney: NEW BEDFORD
MAYOR SCOTT LANG COULDN'T
DISAGREE MORE.
HE SAYS GOVERNMENT
SERVICES FUNDED BY THE
SALES TAX HAVE BEEN KEY TO
NEW BEDFORD'S REBIRTH.
>> WE OPENED OVER 40
BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN IN THE
WORST RECESSION SINCE THE
DEPRESSION.
THEY FEEL WELCOMED.
THEY KNOW THAT THE CITY IS
CLEAN.
THEY KNOW WE DO EVERYTHING
WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THE
POTHOLES HAVE BEEN
ADDRESSED, AND THE
LIGHTBULBS THAT ARE OUT
HAVE BEEN CHANGED.
>> Rooney: CUT THE SALES
TAX, AND SMALL BUSINESSES
WILL HAVE TO PAY EXTRA FOR
THINGS LIKE TRASH PICKUP,
AND DOWNTOWN WILL BECOME
LESS INVITING.
>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL
SAVE ANYBODY A DARN THING,
AND IT WILL CUT BACK ON
ECONOMIC GROWTH.
THEP YOU KILL YOUR TAX
BASE.
IF YOU KILL YOUR TAX BASE,
THE CITIES WILL EMPTY OWL.
>> Rooney: LANG ADDS
THAT PEOPLE NEED TO SEE
GOVERNMENT AS THE PEOPLE'S
ALLIE.
HE SITES THE CYTERIAN.
>> PERHAPS THEY STAY AT
THE NEW HOTEL IN NEW
BEDFORD.
IT IS THESE TYPES OF
ECONOMIC ENGINES AND
GENERATORS THAT HELP THE
ENTIRE PRIVATE SECTOR.
THINGS LIKE THE CYTARIAN
THEATER DON'T SURVIVE WITH
A CUT IN THE STATE
REVENUE.
>> Rooney: BY MYERS
INSISTS HIS FEARS OR
GROUNDLESS.
>> AS SOON AS YOU CUT
TAXES, YOU CREATE THIS
INCREDIBLE INNERIA OF
PEOPLE WANTING TO INVEST.
>> Rooney: WE MAY SOON
FIND OUT.
ACCORDING TO ONE POLL,
SUPPORT FOR THE ROLLBACK
IS RUNNING CLOSE TO 50%.
JOINING ME NOW ARE CARLA
HOWELL, WHO SPEARHEADED
THE INITIATIVE TO CUT THE
SALES TAX BACK TO 3%.
AND MICHAEL WIDMER,
PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL
TAXPAYERS' ASSOCIATION.
WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.
YOUR ISSUE IS GIVING MONEY
BACK TO THE INDIVIDUAL.
BUT WHEN YOU LISTEN TO
SOMEBODY LIKE SCOTT LANG
SAY IT WILL KILL THE
DOWNTOWN, HOW DO YOU
RESPOND TO THAT?
>> THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS
JOBS.
ROLLING BACK THE SALES TAX
TO 3%, IT WILL CREATE
33,000 PRIVATE AND
SUSTAINABLE JOBS.
NOT GOVERNMENT JOBS, WHICH
ONLY LAST AS LONG AS THE
BAILOUT KEEPS FLOWING.
>> Rooney: HOW WOULD IT
DO THAT?
>> FIRST OF ALL, WHEN THE
PRIVATE SECTOR SPENDS
MONEY, VERSUS WHEN THE
GOVERNMENT SPENDS IT, IT
IS MUCH LESS WASTE FULL.
WE HAVE A STATE GOVERNMENT
WHERE FOR EVERY ABLED BODY
PERSON WHO IS DOING A
PRODUCTIVE JOB IN THE
STATE GOVERNMENT -- FOR
EVERY PRODUCTIVE PERSON IN
THEÒr GOVERNMENT SECTOR,
THERE IS SOOTD PERSON ON A
PENSION MAKING ABOUT AS
MUCH MONEY OR MORE.
YOU HAVE TWO ABLE-BODIED
PEOPLE BEING PAID, OFTEN
MID-50s, WHO ARE DOING
ONE JOB.
THEY'RE OFF ON PENSIONS.
THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE
PRIVATE SECTOR.
THEY HAVE NO EMPLOYER-PAID
PENSION.
AND THEY'RE HOPING FOR
SOCIAL SECURITY.
>> Rooney: ON THE JOB
ISSUE, DO YOU THINK THAT
THE SALES TAX ROLLBACK --
FORGET WHETHER THE STATE
CAN AFFORD IT, WILL IT
CREATE JOBS?
LION ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, WITH
THE MASSIVE CUTS IN AID TO
CITIES AND TOWNS, THERE
WILL BE LAYOFFS OF
THOUSANDS, TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF POLICE,
TEACHERS, FIRE, PUBLIC
WORKS -- IT WILL BE A HUGE
ECONOMIC DETERRENT AND
BLANKET IF YOU CUT THE
SALES TAX.
IT WILL BE JUST THE
OPPOSITE.
IN ADDITION TO THE CUT IN
SERVICES, IT WILL BE A
DAMPENING EFFECT ON OUR
ECONOMY.
>> Rooney: THIS ARGUMENT
REMINDS ME A LITTLE OF
PROP 2.5, AND OF NAFTA.
THE ARGUMENT WAS WE'RE
GOING TO LOSE ALL OF THESE
JOBS AND THERE WILL BE
OUTSOURCING, ANDES WILL
BECOME A THIRD WORLD
COUNTRY.
AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
ARGUE THAT IS WHAT
HAPPENED.
AND OTHER PEOPLE ARGUE
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
>> THERE ARE BUSINESSES
THAT PROFIT FROM THE STATE
GOVERNMENT, SO OBVIOUSLY
HE IS ADVOCATING, AS
USUAL, AGAINST TAX CUTS,
TO EVEN TRY TO CLAIM, WHEN
ANY HONEST ECONOMIST KNOWS
HIGH GOVERNMENT SPENDING,
HIGH GOVERNMENT TAXES
DEFLATES THE ECONOMY,
HURTS THE INVESTMENT, AND
HURTS JOBS.
TAX CUTS STIMULATE THE
ECONOMY.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT NEW
HAMPSHIRE, WHERE THEY HAVE
6.5% UNEMPLOYMENT, VERSUS
MASSACHUSETTS, 9.5%.
UP THERE THEY HAVE NO
SALES TAX OR STATE TAX.
OVER ALL THEIR TAX BURDEN
IS 45th IN THE NATION,
AND OURS IS 5th.
>> WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE.
>> NO.
WE ARE NOT IN THE MIDDLE.
THAT'S A MANIPULATION.
WE ARE FIFTH HIGHEST IN
THE NATION.
>> IF YOU CUT THE SALES
TAX TO 3%, IT WILL BARELY
CREATE ANY JOBS.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WILL
DECIMATE LOCAL SERVICES.
WHAT IS OUR COMPETITIVE
ADVANTAGE IN
MASSACHUSETTS?
EDUCATION AND HEALTH CARE.
LOCAL SCHOOLS AND HIGHER
EDUCATION.
YOU CUT $2.5 BILLION IN
THE SALES TAX, AND YOU
ALREADY HAVE A $2 BILLION
HOLE IN THE WORST FISCAL
CRISIS IN THE STATE'S
HISTORY.
WE WILL DECIMATE PUBLIC
HIGHER EDUCATION, AND
WE'LL DECIMATE PUBLIC
SCHOOLS.
THAT IS OUR VERY STRONG
COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE IN
THIS CASE.
>> WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS
THREATENING TO CUT
EDUCATION.
>> Rooney: WAIT --
>> $52 BILLION IN STATE
SPENDING, AND A TINY
FRACTION OF THAT GOES TO
EDUCATION.
>> Rooney: EVERYBODY
SAYS THAT IS THE SACRED
COW, BUT WHY?
WHY WOULD YOU CUT SPENDING
FOR EDUCATION?
WHY NOT.
>> WE SHOULD TAKE THE
$52 BILLION, NOT THE
$28 BILLION, BECAUSE
THEY'VE GOT ANOTHER
$24 BILLION OR SO
OFF-BUDGET, ACCORDING TO
EITHER OF THE FINANCIAL
STATEMENTS FROM THE COMP
TROLLERS OFFICE.
A LITTLE GOES TO HIGHER ED
FROM THE STATE BUDGET AND
TO COMMUNITY COLLEGES.
VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF
THE BUDGET. WE'RE TALKING
TENS OF BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS THAT HAVE
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO
WITH ESSENTIAL SERVICES.
>> Rooney: LIKE WHAT.
>> LIKE WHAT?
LET'S BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT
THAT IS.
THERE IS A CHART IN THE
COMPTROLLER'S REPORT.
YOU KNOW WHAT ONE EXAMPLE
OF THE $52 BILLION IS?
IT IS ALL OF THE MONEY
THAT THE CITIZENS OF THE
STATE BET IN THE LOTTERY.
SO $3.5 BILLION -- THEY
BET $4.5 BILLION, AND
1 BILLION GOES TO THE
CITIES AND TOWNS, AND
$3.5 BILLION GOES DOWN TO
THE TOWNS.
>> OF COURSE IT IS
SPENDING, AND WE AGREE
THAT SHOULD NOT BE CUT.
YOU SHOULD PAY PEOPLE
THEIR PRIZE MONEY.
IT IS ABSOLUTELY PART OF
THE BUDGET.
IT IS PART OF THE
EXPENDITURES AND NET
PROFITS AND WHAT IS USED
BY THE STATE.
IN AN ORDINARY BUSINESS IT
WILL BE BE TREATED AS AN
EXPENDITURE.
WE AGREE THAT $3.5 BILLION
WE SHOULD NOT TOUCH.
AND WE SHOULD NOT TOUCH
ANY ESSENTIAL SERVICES.
>> IN ALL OF THE COMPAIGNS
YOU NEVER IDENTIFIED HOW
YOU WOULD CUT $2 BILLION,
LET ALONE $3.5 BILLION.
>> ONE IS GOVERNMENT
PENSIONS.
THAT'S IS DRAMATICALLY
UNFAIR.
>> Rooney: THAT'S A
LEGAL ISSUE.
YOU CAN'T JUST GO IN THERE
AND CUT IT.
>> AND IT'S A LEGAL ISSUE.
>> BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY
SHOULD BE DOING.
THEY SHOULD STOP
CONTINUING TO HAND OUT --
>> CARLA KEEPS TALKING
ABOUT CUTTING PENSIONS --
>> THEY'RE LEGALLY
OBLIGATED.
>> OH, WE CAN'T DRUG TEST,
EVEN THOUGH WE FOUND IT IS
ENDANGERING PEOPLE AND
FIREFIGHTERS, AND WE
DEMAND A PAY RAISE --
>> Rooney: I NEED TO
HAVE MIKE MAKE HIS POINT.
>> THOSE PENSIONS HAVE BE
LEGALLY EARNED.
ARE THERE PENSIONS ABUSES?
OF COURSE THERE ARE.
BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF
THE FUNDING FOR PENSIONS
THAT THE STATE MAKES HAVE
BEEN LEGALLY EARNED.
IF WE CUT THOSE PENSIONS,
BACK INTO THE COURTS WE
GO.
THE COURTS WILL SAY
THEY'RE LEGALLY EARNED,
AND THE MONEY WILL BE
REINSTATED.
SO YOU CANNOT CUT THE
PENSIONS.
>> SURE YOU CAN.
IN FACT, IT IS GOING TO
IMPLODE.
IT IS NOT A MATTER OF IF,
IT IS A MATTER OF WHEN.
THERE ARE CITIES ALL OVER
THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY'RE
JUST GOING BROKE.
THAT'S WHERE THIS STATE IS
HEADING BECAUSE OF THE
HIGH GOVERNMENT SPENDING.
AT THE STATEMENT, WE'RE
LOSING JOBS.
WE'RE LOSING JOBS.
WE'RE LOSING REVENUE.
THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS
HURTING.
>> Rooney: CAN I JUST
CUT DANGEROUSLY HIGH
HERE -- THIS IS GOING TO
END UP BEING A FAIRLY
EMOTIONAL ISSUE FOR
TAXPAYERS.
THIS THING HAS ALMOST
PASSED THE LAST COUPLE OF
TIMES IT HAS BEEN ON THE
BALLOT.
I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING
TO LOOK AT IT FOR REAL.
MAYBE IF IT ROLLED BACK TO
5%, I THINK IT WOULD BE A
SHOO-IN.
BUT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO
LOOK AT IT AND THINK I DO
THINK THE STATE IS TAKING
TOO MUCH.
6.25 IS TOO MUCH.
SO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
IF IT PASSES, WHICH IS A
LIKELIHOOD.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A
LIKELIHOOD.
I CERTAINLY TAKE IT
SERIOUSLY.
THE VOTERS ARE UNHAPPY.
I THINK THIS IS A SERIOUS
QUESTION IN TERMS OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF IT PASSING.
I DON'T THINK IN TERMS OF
THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT IT
IS A SERIOUS ISSUE.
IN FACT, IT IS ABSOLUTELY
IRRESPONSIBLE BECAUSE THIS
WOULD LEAD TO MAJOR, MAJOR
CUTS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
WORST FISCAL CRISIS IN THE
STATE'S HISTORY.
WE'VE ALREADY SEEN
$2 BILLION OF CUTS.
ANOTHER $2 BILLION IN
FISCAL '12.
>> Rooney: MAYBE IT IS
OKAY WITH PEOPLE.
>> THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND
THE CONSEQUENCES.
THEY WILL VOTE FOR IT, BUT
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE
CONSEQUENCES --
>> THE CONSEQUENCES IS
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE
CAN FORCE THEM TO CUT
WASTE.
WE'VE BEEN IN ONE OF THE
MOST SERIOUS RECESSION
SINCE THE DEPRESSION IN
THIS COUNTRY.
WHAT HAS THE STATE
GOVERNMENT DONE?
FAMILIES HAVE BEEN GETTING
LAID OFF, FURLOUGHED, LOST
CLIENTS, CUT IN PAY, NO
BONUSES.
WHAT IS THE STATE
GOVERNMENT DOING?
IT IS INCREASING SPENDING.
IT HAS CONTINUED TO
INCREASE SPENDING.
IT GRANTED FEDERAL BAILOUT
MONEY AND CONTINUES TO
COUNT ON THIS AND
OVERSPEND --
>> Rooney: OKAY, THIS IS
JUST THE BEGINNING OF THIS
CAMPAIGN.
WE HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN THE
ADVERTISEMENTS YET.
WE'LL STAY ON TOP OF THIS
STORY.
THANKS FOR COMING.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Rooney: THAT IS IT
FOR "GREATER BOSTON."
DON'T FORGET MY RADIO
SHOW.
GARY GUNTLEY, AND BOB
POSEN, CHAIRMAN OF M.S. F.
INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT.
WE'LL ASK HIM ABOUT THE
RECALLBACK. --
ROLLBACK.
AND TOMORROW AT 1:00, A
LOOK AT THE LIFE OF GEORGE
CARLIN.
I'M EMILY ROONEY.
GOOD NIGHT.c