Apr. 6, 2010: Dan Winslow on bullying

THREE TEENAGERS WERE

ARRAIGNED TODAY IN

CONNECTION WITH THE

SUICIDE OF 15-YEAR-OLD

PHOEBE PRINCE OF SOUTH

HADLEY, BUT NOT ONE OF

THEM WAS IN COURT.

17-YEAR-OLD SEAN

MULVEYHILL, 18-YEAR-OLD

AUSTIN RENAUD, AND

17-YEAR-OLD KAYLA NAREY

CHOSE NOT TO APPEAR IN

PERSON, SENDING ATTORNEYS

INSTEAD.

NOT GUILTY PLEAS WERE

ENTERED ON THEIR BEHALF.

AND IT HAS PROMPTED

ANTI-BULLYING LEGISLATION

ON BEACON HILL.

BUT NIGHT THE HOUSE OR THE

SENATE VERSION WOULD

IMPOSE CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

ONE FORMER JURIST THINKS

CRIMINAL CHARGES SHOULD BE

INCLUDE.

JOINING ME IS DAN WINSLOW,

WHO IS ALSO RUNNING FOR

STATE REP IN THE NINTH

NORFOLK DISTRICT.

>> THANK YOU, EMILY.

>> Rooney: DAN, THE BUZZ

PHRASE IS RESTORETIVE

JUSTICE.

>> THERE IS A SENATE

VERSION AND A HOUSE

VERSION.

ONE IMPOSES CIVIL

CONSEQUENCES, AND THE

OTHER IMPOSES CRIMINAL

CONSEQUENCES.

AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH

THIS AS A PROBLEM THAT

NEEDS TO BE SOLVED.

I HAVE PROPOSED THAT WE

HAVE A CRIMINAL QONS --

CONSEQUENCE, BUT THAT WE

CREATE SOME FLEXIBILITY

FOR JUDGES TO INCLUDE THIS

CONSEQUENCE OF RESTORATIVE

JUSTICE.

IT SEES CRIMES AS AN

OFFENSE AGAINST THE STATE.

AND RESTORATIVE SEES

CRIMES AGAINST A PERSON.

IT IS VERY VICTIM-FOCUSED.

IN THE CONTEXT OF

BULLYING, WHAT I PROPOSED

IS THAT WE TAKE THE ALMOST

$10 MILLION OF VICTIM

ADVOCATES THAT WE ALREADY

HAVE IN THE BUDGET IN

MASSACHUSETTS, AND INCLUDE

IN THEIR TRAINING, RESTORA

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE

TECHNIQUES, AND TO MAKE

KIDS' LIVES BETTER.

>> Rooney: HOW DOES THIS

APPLY IN THIS CASE --

WELL, PHOEBE PRINCE IS

DEAD, SO THE VICTIM CAN'T

BE PART OF RESTORATIVE

JUSTICE.

COULD THE TEENS BE

PENALIZED?

WOULD THERE BE ANY JAIL

TIME?

AND HOW WOULD IT WORK?

THE STATE WOULDN'T COME UP

WITH THE MONEY TO GIVE TO

THE VICTIMS.

WHAT PART OF THIS WOULD

THE BULLIERS THEMSELVES

PLAY?

>> THIS CASE AND THE

ALLEGATIONS OF THIS CASE

WOULDN'T APPLY BECAUSE THE

LEGISLATION ONLY APPLIES

GOING FORWARD.

LET'S STEP BACK AND SEE

WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE

DIFFERENTLY HAD THE

LEGISLATION BEEN IN PLACE.

IF THERE WERE A CRIME OF

BULLYING IN MASSACHUSETTS

THAT INCLUDED A

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE

COMPONENT AND THIS NEARLY

$10 MILLION OF MONEY WE'RE

ALREADY SPENDING FOR

VICTIM ADVOCATES.

WHEN A PARENT ALERTS

SCHOOL AUTHORITIES OR

SCHOOL AUTHORITIES POINT

OUT THERE IS A BULLYING

PROBLEM, THERE COULD BE A

COMMUNITY CONFERENCE.

WITH A VICTIM ADVOCATE,

TRAINED FACILITATOR,

PARENTS, THE VICTIM, OR

THE TEACHERS -- AND THE

VICTIM MAY NOT CHOOSE TO

PARTICIPATE, AND THE

VICTIM ADVOCATE CAN STAND

IN FOR THE PEOPLE, TO MAKE

SURE THAT PEOPLE ENGAGING

IN BULLYING BE PULLED OUT.

SO IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T GET

WITH THE PROGRAM, FINE.

STICK WITH CONVENTIONAL

CRIMINAL JUSTICE BECAUSE

THE CONSEQUENCES OF

CRIMINAL PROSECUTION ARE

SIGNIFICANT.

>> Rooney: A LOT OF IT

HAS BEEN MADE IN THE LAST

COUPLE OF DAYS OVER THE

FACT THAT THESE KIDS DID

NOT APPEAR IN COURT.

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T

APPEAR AT THEIR OWN

ARRAIGNMENT.

AND IT ALMOST FEELS TO ME,

AND IF YOU'VE BEEN READING

THE COMMENTS IN THE

NEWSPAPERS, OR, FRANKLY,

THE CALL-INS TO LOCAL

RADIO SHOWS -- THESE KIDS

ARE VICTIMS OF BULLYING

THEMSELVES AT THIS POINT.

>> IT WOULD SEEM SO.

AND MY CONCERN, JUST TO --

AND I DON'T KNOW IT WOULD

HAPPEN IN THIS CASE -- BUT

I WOULD ASSUME THAT PEOPLE

WHO ARE IN A HIGH-PROFILE

ALLEGATION SUCH AS THIS,

THEMSELVES ARE RECEIVING

E-MAILS AND THREATS, AND

PERHAPS THINGS ARE

HAPPENING IN THEIR

FAMILIES RIGHT NOW.

AND THESE ARE PEOPLE

RESUMED INNOCENT.

I DON'T KNOW THE FACTS AND

I'M NOT GOING TO COMMENT

ON IT.

THOSE ARE SIMPLY

ALLEGATIONS.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF ONE

OF THESE KIDS HURT

THEMSELVES RIGHT NOW?

AND THAT POINTS FOR THE

NEED FOR A SOLUTION HERE.

WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD FIX.

WE CAN'T JUST USE THE

CUDUL OF THE CRIMINAL

JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT CIVIL

ULTIMATELY IS -- PEOPLE

CAN EVADE CIVIL.

>> Rooney: IT DOESN'T

HAVE THE TEETH.

>> IT DOESN'T HAVE THE

TEETH THAT THE CRIMINAL

JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS.

AND THE IDEA -- AND THIS

IS ONLY GOING FORWARD BY

THE WAY, IT DOESN'T APPLY

TO THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

THE IDEA IS BULLYING

STARTS AS A SMALL PROBLEM,

AND IT GROWS.

IF IT REMAINS UNCHECKED,

IT CAN BECOME LETHAL.

WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN

MASSACHUSETTS.

WE CAN DO BETTER THAN

THAT.

>> Rooney: I'M CURIOUS,

WHEN YOU WERE A JUDGE IN

WRENTHAM, HOW THIS

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE WOULD

HAVE BEEN APPLIED.

>> JUDGES HAVE DISCRETION

IN IMPOSING PROBATION.

IF THERE IS ALREADY A

PROBLEM, THE JUDGE CAN

IMPOSE, IF THERE IS GUILT

OR ADMISSION OF GUILTY,

THE JUDGE CAN IMPOSE

CONDITIONS.

AND WE HAVE A FANTASTIC

PROBATION DEPARTMENT.

BUT THAT IS AFTER THE

DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE.

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE CAN

INCLUDE THAT AND

DIVERSIONS AHEAD OF TIME.

SO BEFORE SOMETHING EVEN

GETS TO THE CRIMINAL

JUSTICE AS AN ADMISSION OR

A FINDING OF GUILT, EVEN

THE FACT OF A CHARGE OR IN

JUVENILE CASES, A DIVERSE

TO SAY IF YOU DON'T GO

WITH RESTORA TIVE, WE CAN

CHARGE YOU.

AND JERRY LEONI HAS

CONTINUED THIS.

THERE IS AN INTENSIVE

OUTREACH BETWEEN THE

SCHOOL PRINCIPALS,

PROBATION DEPARTMENTS.

THAT KIND OF

COLLABORATION.

BUT IN MY VIEW, ISSUES OF

JUSTICE SHOULDN'T DEPEND

IN MASSACHUSETTS ON WHERE

YOU HAPPEN TO LIVE.

IT OUGHT TO BE EQUAL

AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY.

>> Rooney: I FEEL THAT

WAY ABOUT THE DEATH

PENALTY.

SO SO MUCH FOR THAT.

I LOST MY TRAIN OF

THOUGHT.

GOING BACK TO THE KIDS

HERE.

HAVE YOU SEEN CASES WHERE

IT WAS ACTUALLY AFFECTIVE?

AND, ALSO, ON THIS POINT

OF THE KIDS -- I DON'T

KNOW IF YOU'RE AWARE OF

THIS, THERE IS A HUGE

DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER THERE

WERE SIX KIDS OR NINE KIDS

BECAUSE THE COURT SYSTEM

WON'T SAY.

IT IS WIDELY REPORTED

THERE ARE NINE, BUT IF YOU

CALL UP, THEY WILL ONLY

SAY THERE ARE SIX.

WHAT IF THREE ARE

JUVENILES.

WHY WON'T THEY SAY?

>> THAT'S A DIFFERENT

SHOW.

THE JUVENILE JUSTICE

SYSTEM AND THE

CONFIDENTIALITY OF THE

JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

BUT ONE OF THE LEADING

PROPONENTS OF RESTORATIVE

JUSTICE WAS JUDGE ARGAGON,

AND HAY HAS LEFT THE

BENCH.

BUT JUDGE MARAGAN WOULD

HAVE SENTENCING CIRCLES.

HE WOULD INVOLVE THE

COMMUNITY.

WHEN SOMETHING IS BAD, IT

IS CALLED PEER PRESSURE.

PEER PRESSURE CAN BE USED

FOR GOOD PURPOSES AS WELL.

AND THE WHOLE NOTION OF

SOLVING PROBLEMS.

BECAUSE IF YOU -- AND THIS

IS TRUE IN NEIGHBOR

DISPUTES -- IT IS NOT

APPROPRIATE FOR DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE OR SORT OF UNEVEN

POWER STRUCTURES OR WHERE

THERE IS PHYSICAL

VIOLENCE, BUT A NEIGHBOR

DISPUTE OR IN A COMMUNITY,

LIKE A SCHOOL -- AT THE

END OF THE PROCESS, PEOPLE

STILL HAVE TO LIVE NEXT TO

EACH OTHER.

THEY STILL HAVE TO BE IN

THE SAME TOWN AND GO TO

THE SAME SCHOOL.

IF WE RELY ON THIS

CRIMINAL CUDUL, HAVE WE

REALLY SOLVED THE PROBLEM?

HAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES BEEN

MADE BETTER?

MY FEELING IS WE NEED AN

ADDITIONAL TOOL IN THE

TOOLBOX, RESTORATIVE

JUSTICE.

>> Rooney: MAYBE YOU

SHOULD RON FOR A.G..

G.WHEN

WE CONTINUE, WHY "THIS OLD

HOUSE" IS TAKING7AREA.