Apr. 26, 2010: Krista Tippett's Einstein's God

>> KRISTA TIPETT HAS BEEN
MOSTING SPEAKING OF FAITH
WEEKLY ON PUBLIC RADIO SINCE
2003MENT NOW SHE HAS TAKEN
SOME OF HER MOST PROVOCATIVE
INTERVIEWS ABOUT SCIENCE AND
RELIGION FOR HER NEW BOOK
ENTITLED "EINSTEIN'S GOD:
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SCIENCE
AND THE HUMAN SPIRIT" AND
KRISTA TIPETT IS HERE.
WELCOME.

>> THANKS.

>> Rooney: ONE OF MI
FAVORITE SUBJECTS.
I HAVE TO ASK ABOUT THE
TIGHT EL BECAUSE I HAVE
NEVER REALLY THOUGHT OF
EINSTEIN IN TERMS OF GOD.
I NEVER EVEN HEARD HIM
MENTIONED IN THE SAME PHRASE.

>> IT IS TWO INTRIGUING
WORDS TO PUT TOGETHER.

>> Rooney: THAT'S TRUE.

>> RIGHT.
AND EINSTEIN WAS NOT
RELIGIOUS IN ANY KIND OF
TRADITIONAL WAY.
HE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN A
PERSONAL GOD.
BUT HE DID USE THE WORD GOD
A LOT.
HE USED IT SOMETIMES
WHIMSICALLY.
HE USED IT SOMETIMES IN
SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS WITH
COLLEAGUES.
BUT HE ALSO WOULD SAY THINGS
LIKE, I NEEDED TO KNOW-- I
NEEDED TO UNDERSTAND THE
ORDER DEEPLY HIDDEN BEHIND
EVERYTHING.
I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
GOD WAS THINKING.
SO THERE WAS OFTEN A REAL
PHILOSOPHICAL, AN EVEN A
SPIRITUAL ECOTO THE WAY HE
TALKED ABOUT GOD.

>> Rooney: I'M CURIOUS
BECAUSE YOUR RADIO SHOW
SPEAKS TO PEOPLE OF FAITH AS
WELL AS SCIENTISTS.
YOUR BOOK IS THE SCIENTISTS.

>> UH-HUH.

>> Rooney: WHY?

>> ALTHOUGH, RIGHT, AND
ABOUT HALF THE SCIENTISTS IN
THE BOOK ARE RELIGIOUS AND
HALF ARE NOT.

>> Rooney: BUT YOU CHOSE TO
FOCUS ON THE SCIENTIST FORCE
THAT REASON.

>> YOU KNOW, THESE PROGRAMS,
WELL, FIRST OF ALL THESE
INTERVIEWS I DO WITH
SCIENTISTS FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING HAVE JUST BEEN
SOME OF THE MOST THRILLING
CONVERSATIONS.
AND ALSO SOME THE PROGRAMS
OUR LISTENERS HAVE GOTTEN
MOST EXCITED ABOUT.
AND WE WERE JUST, YOU KNOW,
AS WE THOUGHT ABOUT PULLING
A BOOK TOGETHER, THIS WAS
CLEARLY THE TOPIC.
AND TELEPHONE DOESN'T
SURPRISE ME.
RIGHT NOW THERE'S A LOT OF
ENERGY AND CURIOSITY AROUND
SPIRITUALITY AND RELIGION.
VERY BROADLY DEFINED, RIGHT.
IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT
IN EVERY LIFE.
AND IN MODERN LIFE IT'S A
BROAD PALLET.
AND THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF
CURIOSITY AND ENERGY AROUND
SCIENCE.
PEOPLE WANT TO UNDERSTAND.
OUR LIVES ARE INFUSED WITH
SCIENCE.
I THINK IN A MORE PERSONAL
DALEY WAY THAN EVER BEFORE.
SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME
THAT THERE IS A GREAT
CURIOSITY.

>> I WAS JUST READING LAST
WEEK WHERE SOME TELESCOPE
CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME AND
THEY THINK THEY'VE, THEY
UNDERSTAND THE BIG BANG
THEORY SO MUCH BETTER WHICH
CONFLICTS, OF COURSE W SO
MANY PEOPLE'S PERSONAL
BELIEFS.
I'M CURIOUS ABOUT SOME OF
THE OTHER RELIGIONS OTHER
THAN CHRISTIANITY AND SOME
OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE
HERE IN OUR COUNTRY.
WHETHER HINDUISM, BUDDHISM,
ISLAMIC FAITH, WHETHER THEY
HAVE THE SAME CONFLICTS IN
THEIR RELIGIONS THAT WE DO
WITH, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF
DIVISION OVER SCIENCE AND --

>> THEY DON'T.

>> CREATION.

>> AND THAT IS ONE OF THE
THINGS I WANT TO BE OUT
THERE SAYING.
WE TEND TO USE THIS PHRASE,
THE SCIENCE-RELIGION DIVIDE.
BUT THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A
RELIGION VERSUS SCIENCE
CLASH, RELIGION WITH A
CAPITAL "R", IN PARTS OF
CHRISTIANITY IN THE LAST
COUPLE HUNDRED YEARS.

>> Rooney: IN CERTAIN
PLACES.

>> THERE IS A CONTROVERSY.
BUT I LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT
THE FIRST PRESIDING BISHOP
OF THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN
THIS CENTURY TRAINED AS A
MARINE BIOLOGIST AND THE
SCIENTIST WHO MAPPED HUMAN
DNA OR HUMAN THE THE
HUMAN-GENOME PROJECT IS A
EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN SO
EVEN GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT
CHRISTIANITY BEING AGAINST
SCIENCE DON'T WORK.
BUT THERE A GREAT HINDU
PHYSICIST IN THE BOOM
WHO-- BOOK WAS TALKS ABOUT
HINDUISM HAS A COMPLETELY
AVOIDED THIS CONFLICT.
AND HE THINKS IT'S IN PART
BECAUSE HINDUISM HAS ALWAYS
VALUED THE ART AND POETRY
AND UNDERSTOOD THAT TRUTH IS
A MULTIFACETED THING.
AND THAT WE NEED DIFFERENT
LANGUAGES TO DESCRIBE TRUTH.
AND SCIENCE PROVIDES ONE
LANGUAGE AND DESCRIBES
CERTAIN KINDS OF TRUTHS.
AND IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT
JUDAHISM DOESN'T HAVE THIS
CLASH.
BUDDHISM DOESN'T HAVE THIS
CLASH.
EINSTEIN WAS QUITE INTRIGUED
WITH BUDDHISM.
HE SPECULATED THAT IT MIGHT
BE THE RELIGION OF THE
FUTURE THAT WAS BEST
EQUIPPED TO BRING THE BEST
INSIGHTS OF SCIENCE AND
RELIGION TOGETHER.

>> Rooney: DO ANY OF THE
SCIENTISTS HAVE A REAL KIND
OF INTELLECTUAL STRUGGLE
WITHIN THEMSELVES ABOUT WHAT
THEY BELIEVE SPIRITUALLY AND
WHAT THEY KIND OF
INTELLECTUALLY KNOW TO BE
THE TRUTH.

>> YEAH, IT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION.
HERE'S WHAT I THINK.
I DON'T THINK THEY
NECESSARILY STRUGGLE TO
RECONCILE BELIEFS.
I THINK A LOT OF SCIENTISTS
ARE QUITE CONTENT NOT TO TIE
EVERYTHING UP.
SO THEY ARE VERY CONTENT TO
LIVE WITH UNANSWERED
QUESTIONS.
WITH THIS OBSERVATION HERE,
THAT OBSERVATION THERE.
I THINK ONE THING THAT
UNITES SCIENCE, SCIENTISTS
AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE AT
THEIR BEST IS A COMFORT WITH
MYSTERY.
AND SO A LOT OF SCIENTISTS
ARE MAKING OAKS THAT ARE
SPIRITUALLY AND THEY
LOGICALLY EVOCATIVE AND THEY
MAY EVEN BE, LIKE EINSTEIN
DID, MAYBE NAMING MYSTERY
AND WONDER AND LEAVING ROOM
FOR, AS EINSTEIN WOULD TALK
ABOUT THE MIND OR
INTELLIGENCE BEHIND THE
UNIVERSAL.
HE WOULD EVEN TALK,
SPECULATE ABOUT SOMETHING
LIKE THE SUPERIOR SPIRIT
BEHIND THE KOS MOSS.
BUT HE DIDN'T NEED TO CALL
THAT GOD.
HE DIDN'T NEED TO TIE IT UP
WITH A PERSONAL GOD OR A
THEOLOGY.

>> DID YOU HAVE ANY
HARD-LINER, PEOPLE WHO
JUST --

>> THE TWO THINGS ARE
SEPARATE.
WELL THAT'S NOT WHO I TALKED
TO.

>> BUT YOU MUST HAVE FOUND
THEM IN YOUR TRAVELS.

>> YEAH, YES, I MEAN THE
REALLY HARD-LINERS GOT A LOT
OF PRESS.
SO I TEND TO FIND PEOPLE
AGAIN NOT WHO ARE-- WHO ARE
RECONCILING THESE THINGS IF
NOTHING ELSE BY THROWING
ECHOS ACROSS THE DIVIDE.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE
DEFINITELY SCIENTISTS IN
THIS BOOK, A PHYSICIAN WHO A
LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW, DANA
LEFFIN, A PHYSICIST.
PEOPLE, SCIENTISTS WHO SAY
THEY ARE NOT RELIGIOUS.
THEY DON'T FIND GOD IN
ANYTHING OF THIS.
BUT THEN AT THE SAME TIME
SHERWIN NEWLON IS TALKING
ABOUT HOW HE BELIEVES THE
HUMAN SPIRIT IS AN
EVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT OF THE
HUMAN BRAIN.
WHICH HE THINKS IS THE MOST
WONDEROUS THING IN NATURE.
AND HE THINKS THAT OUR BRAIN,
THAT ALONE AMONG CREATURES,
HUMAN BEINGS BECAME
CONSCIOUS OF THE COST OF
CHAOS AND DECAY, THAT IS
PART OF THE STRUGGLE OF
LIFE.
AND SO DEVELOPED A LOVE FOR
ORDER AND FOR BEAUTY AND
EVEN FOR MORALITY.
WELL, THAT IS RELIGIOUSLY,
THE LOLLLY INTERESTING TO
THINK ABOUT, WHETHER HE
COMES OUT OF IT BEING A
RELIGIOUS PERSON OR NOT.
SO THAT'S THE CONVERSATION I
AM INTERESTED IN LISTENING
FOR, AGAIN, NOT FORCING A
DIALOGUEMENT BUT LISTENING
FOR THE CONVERSATION THAT IS
HAPPENING ORGANICALLY.

>> Rooney: FASCINATING.
EVEN THE OPENING OF YOUR
BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THE
THINGS IN THE WORLD THAT
HAVE GOT TO BE THERE FOR A
REASON.
IT IS INCREDIBLE.
KRISTA TIPETT.
THANK SO MUCH FOR COMING.
EINSTEIN'S GOD THAT IS IT
FOR GREATER BOSTON.
A REMINDER TO TUNE INTO THE
NEW 89.7 FOR MY RADIO SHOW
FOLLOWED BY CALLIE CROSSLEY
AT 1:00.
COMING UP NECK, IT A NEW
EDITION OF HIGH SCHOOL QUIZ
SHOW.
JOIN US TOMORROW NIGHT WHEN
TENNIS GREAT JIM COURIER
WILL BE AMONG MY GUESTS,
TOMORROW AT 7:00.
I'M EMIL ROONEY.
GOOD NIGHT.