Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: In every movie role
he's had, from Dances with
Wolves to The Last of the
Mohicans to Avatar he brings
depth and authenticity to the
characters he plays, changing
the way audiences see Native
Americans.
Legendary actor Wes Studi.
I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This is One on One.
Wes Studi, you are an amazing
actor, the star of... well,
let's just say Avatar, Dances
with Wolves, Last of the
Mohicans, Geronimo.
What an honor to have you on our
program.
I have to tell you, I want to go
to a movie that came out several
years ago-- Geronimo, an
American Legend.
Because you were... you carried
that movie.
I'm sure many of our viewers saw
that.
The moment that I want to talk
about for a second is the moment
when you first appear onscreen
in that movie.
And when you are looking at the
American soldiers, and you have
this look.
The camera just kind of zeroes
in on your face, and you have
this look of distrust, disdain,
and interest, and you captured
that so well.
And I just said it has to be
because in your own life as a
Native American, growing up in
Oklahoma, these emotions are
not... they're not far from your
own life, right?
>> STUDI: And they're not foreign,
either.
Yes, it's true.
Yeah.
That's one of the advantages
that we as Native Americans, if
you will, American Indians, have
a history that, if we keep up on
it, you know, and we know what
has happened over the years,
it's something that as an actor,
we can use those kinds of
feelings that have been
generated over the years into
the performances that we provide
for film when we come to a
historical person like Geronimo.
>> HINOJOSA: And there were
members of Geronimo's family who
were on the set.
>> STUDI: Oh, absolutely, yes.
>> HINOJOSA: And so you had to
really zero in on...
>> STUDI: It's difficult.
>> HINOJOSA: Yeah.
>> STUDI: It's difficult to work up a
persona for a character when you
have people who are, like you
say, direct relatives of, and
people who... you know, there
was a wide range of feelings
about Geronimo.
I mean, he was not the loved
person or the totally hated
person, but he was both and in
between, you know?
So how do you put together a
persona for a man who has lived
in that kind of a strata?
And the answer for me was simply
as real as possible, and for
dealing with whatever particular
scene was going on, whatever
emotions and circumstances.
How does a man deal with
circumstances when he's
surrounded by the enemy?
>> HINOJOSA: You know, we know
you on screen.
We know your face.
We know your voice.
But probably what people don't
know is that you grew up in
Oklahoma, and the first five
years of your life you were on
the res, and you were
monolingual Cherokee.
And your parents made a decision
early on to put you into a
boarding school.
>> STUDI: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: So that you could
essentially learn English.
And you came back after a year,
and you had forgotten all of
your Cherokee.
>> STUDI: Oh, sure, yeah.
I walked back into the house
after nine months away at
school, and discovered all of a
sudden that I had forgotten the
Cherokee language, because I
tried to use English in my
grandmother's house.
And oh, she put a stop to that
immediately.
>> HINOJOSA: Tell me what
happened when you did.
>> STUDI: (speaking Cherokee) is what
she said immediately.
And she had a scowl on her face.
What she had said was, "Oh, no
way we're going to use English
in my house, young man."
I know it's... and so everybody
backed her up, of course.
And I was at a loss for a bit,
because it had sort of been
wiped from the back of my mind.
So... but within a week or two,
you know, of listening, and,
"Oh, yeah, okay."
It comes back, you know?
Riding a bicycle.
>> STUDI: Then you do something pretty
extraordinary.
I mean, a lot of time passes
there, but you become a young
adult.
And you do something pretty
extraordinary, which is that you
volunteer to go fight in the war
in Vietnam.
And that... only because you, of
course, have been in movies
where war, a certain kind of
war, is taking place, I wonder
about that experience, of being
an American Indian fighting for
the US government in your life,
then you come back and you ended
up fighting against the US
government as an American Indian
activist.
>> STUDI: Sure.
Well, you know, it's a matter of
education.
A lot of it, so much of it, has
to do with education.
Because up until the time that I
actually returned from Vietnam,
I really had very little idea of
our history.
And, of course, these were also
times of great unrest within the
United States.
There was the Civil Rights
movement, there was the antiwar
movement, there was the Yippies
and the Hippies and all of that
social unrest that was going on.
And all of a sudden, as a result
of that, or for whatever reason,
because... the American Indian
movements began to appear as
well.
And then and there was a great
time for lots of education.
You know, I was unaware of the
many misdeeds perpetrated on our
people by the government's
indifferent government.
And this was a time
that activism was really real,
you know?
And it was a time for joining
in.
And first you have to have the
facts.
You have to have the education.
Once you pick that up... and
then that, on one hand,
generates lots of anger at that
point in time.
>> HINOJOSA: Within you?
>> STUDI: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: Around you.
You were at the Siege at Wounded
Knee.
It was something that if you
grew up in the '60s and '70s,
you knew.
>> STUDI: What happened was it was
actually... a tragic little
comedy happened, and we wound up
taking over the Bureau of Indian
Affairs building.
>> HINOJOSA: For how many
months?
>> STUDI: It wasn't months.
It was mainly days.
I think it was more like 12 to
17 days, something like that,
that we held the building.
And maybe not even that long.
I don't really remember.
But in any case, after that the
movement began to spread back
out into the States, back out
into the Dakotas, and back out
into Oklahoma, everywhere.
There were incidents of conflict
between the American Indian
movement and different
municipalities, counties, laws,
all over the United States,
really.
But the one that we focus on is
Wounded Knee, because it got the
biggest press coverage, and all
the Marlon Brandos and all of
the people that were...
>> HINOJOSA: Let's take a second
for that, because people
might... I mean, I know that for
me that moment was a marker,
which is when Marlon Brando wins
the Academy Award for The
Godfather.
We all thought we were going to
see... well, I know that there
was some buzz about whether or
not he was going to show up, and
then a Native American woman
comes onstage and says, "He is
rejecting this award," and talks
about what's happening.
At that moment, do you feel...
did you know at that moment that
that could be that moment that
was in kind of our cultural
lexicon as Americans?
The Native American presence was
there for all to see at the
Academy Awards.
And yet it was basically saying,
"We are still powerless."
>> STUDI: Yes, perhaps powerless.
But I think that the real legacy
of all that activism is what we
can look at in terms of the
sovereignty that's been built up
throughout the Indian nations,
the tribal nations, whatever you
would call it.
And to the point that we are
now... you know, we're a public
presence in government
happenings, in policy and
legislation and things like
that.
So we've finally gotten to the
point that we can affect better.
We have always been a part of
it, but we are capable of
affecting our own future through
government policies and such
these days because of the huge
changeover in self perception, I
think, that happened back then.
The fact that our story was
somehow represented on a
national venue, or international
venue, like the Academy Awards,
was only a testament to the fact
that something was going on in
Wounded Knee at that particular
point in time, and it was at
first not covered by the
national press, by the USA
press.
At first, foreign press came in,
and they were covering it.
And it was going all around the
world.
And then the USA press said,
"Oh," you know?
The American press decided,
"Well, we'd better not get left
out of this."
And so in they came.
But... so...
>> HINOJOSA: The point is...
but, you know what?
You were a radical.
You were taking on the US
government.
You... and I'm kind of... I just
wrote here, I said, "Radical,"
and then I put a little line
next to Eytukan, which is... or
"Ay"tukan, which is the
character that you played in
Avatar.
>> STUDI: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: The father of
Neytiri.
>> STUDI: Well, that kind of action was
only radical in that it hadn't
been done in a long time.
It hadn't been done since maybe
the... the last time that the
Sioux met the American army at
Custer's last stand, you know?
I mean, that was the last time
that the press covered anything.
>> HINOJOSA: But take me from
understanding that to then, you
find, you discover that you have
a home in the theater, many
years later, and kind of how you
put those two things together.
How you understand your history
as being a Native American,
American Indian activist, who
was challenging, forcefully, at
all times, for your people, for
your voice.
Fast forward several decades,
and you are starring in a huge
movie, controversial though it
may be, Avatar.
How do you put those two things
together now in the sense of
where you came from and where
you've ended up?
>> STUDI: I've never really stopped
doing the same thing.
>> HINOJOSA: Which is?
>> STUDI: Which is rather than taking
over buildings and confronting
US Marshals out on the plains of
South Dakota or that kind of
thing, these days what I do is I
tell the story of our people.
And because you brought up
Avatar, I have to tell you that
that is a story that's been told
so many times before.
It's true.
It's a wonderful old story, and
it always brings us to a spot
where we think to ourselves that
we really need to improve our
relationships between peoples,
you know?
Not only on group levels, but
even at individual levels, you
know?
How we deal with one another in
terms of respecting one another
to begin with.
And that's how I feel about... I
mean, I think that's what adds
to our deteriorating kind of
circumstances that we have here
in the States that
politically...
>> HINOJOSA: In terms of the
Native American population?
>> STUDI: Well, not only us, but, I
mean, it's happening to all
diverse groups.
As people seem to be more
comfortable within their own
groups, we seem to be coming
away from being able to work as
a whole, you know?
To be able to work as a whole,
because of so many divergent
interest groups, if you will.
>> HINOJOSA: And people feeling
really, really kind of grounded
and rooted in that.
>> STUDI: Grounded and rooted is good.
Grounded and rooted is good.
On the other hand, when you use
it as a self protection, it's
kind of isolating.
It's kind of isolating.
The group... we have our groups
beginning to isolate away from
one another and compete more.
Perhaps because there's less to
be han in terms of resources.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, you know, I'm
wondering, because there isn't,
you know... in Hollywood, let's
say, it's not as if you have a
kind of demographic reality that
you can say telling American
Indian stories, telling stories
of Native Americans, is
important because there's a
demographic reason.
We have a numbers reason to tell
this story.
So is Hollywood in fact... I
mean, you've been doing this for
a while.
Has it changed?
>> STUDI: Well, thanks for the
reminder.
>> HINOJOSA: And you look
fabulous.
>> STUDI: Oh.
>> HINOJOSA: But is it... has it
gotten better?
Is it still... I know that you
talk about respect, but with
Hollywood, is there still the
kind of banging your head
against the wall, and just
saying, "Come on, now"?
>> STUDI: Really, what it comes down
to, Maria, is that I think
everyone that goes to Hollywood
is going to bang their heads
against the wall.
Some may have a better inroad.
Some may have... face more
difficulty in beginning their
careers.
But I think it's just as
difficult now as when I went
there.
>> HINOJOSA: Wow.
>> STUDI: Mainly because that's the
nature of the beast itself, I
think.
I mean....
>> HINOJOSA: Right.
There's always going to... I
mean, Hollywood is always about
that, right?
>> STUDI: Yeah.
Hollywood is always about
images, and the next new thing.
It's always the next new thing.
And so that's what makes it
difficult for guys like me to
hang in there for a good long
while, you know?
Like you say, I've been there
for a while.
>> HINOJOSA: And you've been
working every year.
>> STUDI: I've continued to work.
And I...
>> HINOJOSA: Knock on wood?
>> STUDI: Knock on wood and thank my
lucky stars, yes.
>> HINOJOSA: I mean, because
even though you've been an
amazing star... for example,
Last of the Mohicans, a lot of
people said you should have been
nominated for an Oscar.
>> STUDI: Yeah, but you have to
remember, that was 1992, or '91.
>> HINOJOSA: Yeah, but Wes, let
me come back to you and say, but
that movie, even on the trailer
of where it says, you know,
"Last of the Mohicans," your
name doesn't even appear on that
banner there.
And it's just like, "But Wes
kind of carried that movie-- why
isn't his name up there?"
>> STUDI: Yeah, that's a good question.
I... it just came out in DVD.
I think you should make that
remark sometime.
>> HINOJOSA: You want me to call
someone?
>> STUDI: Yeah, call someone.
>> HINOJOSA: "How come Wes'
name..." but in the sense of,
what do you say to young
American Indian theater types,
kids who would like to become
involved in the business?
So you say, "Go forth and try
it, but be prepared, because
you're going to hear no a lot,
and the doors may close"?
>> STUDI: Exactly, that's it.
The only thing that I tell them
is that never say never, and be
ready for, like you say, a lot
of rejection.
And do not... please do not take
it personally.
I mean, you only hurt yourself
when you take it personally, is
how it turns out, from what I've
seen and what I've lived.
>> HINOJOSA: I know that that's
easy to say, but when you think
about the history of...
>> STUDI: Some people can take it and
some people can't.
>> HINOJOSA: Because there's a
lot of anger there.
>> STUDI: Well, yeah, I suppose.
And many times you can say...
you can always play the race
card, saying that, "Oh, well,
they don't like Indians anyway,"
you know?
But on the other hand, you have
to keep on hammering away at it
to get in as much as possible.
It's... and if you're always
there, if you can provide a
performance, and the performance
is seen somewhere, you know, you
just have to continue to push it
and push it and push it to the
point that somebody sees you and
says, "Okay, I want that guy in
my movie, too," you know?
And that's how it works.
>> HINOJOSA: Don't you just love
to hear those words?
You decided that you wanted to
executive produce your own work.
>> STUDI: Yeah, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: You said, "You know
what?
I have to take control and make
my own film."
And so you made the film The
Only Good Indian, you executive
produced, you starred in it.
It's a little bit about your
personal story in the sense that
it's about a boy who ends up in
a... one of the schools to
acculturate Native Americans.
>> STUDI: They were basically boarding
schools wherein children were
many times forcefully extracted
from their home environments and
plunked into schools, boarding
schools, that... let's just say
it was a really bad situation
for a lot of the early kids.
By the time I went to one of
these schools, and this was in
the '60s, when things were
beginning to, you know, kind of
turn around, and... I didn't
suffer the many things that
happened to kids in...
>> HINOJOSA: It was not a
terrible experience for you.
>> STUDI: For me it was not a
physically or... terrible
situation.
>> HINOJOSA: This movie, though,
it was not a major blockbuster.
It did well at Sundance Film
Festival.
But in essence, then, they can
say, "Well, you see?
Your story just isn't out there
pulling those millions of
audience members."
>> STUDI: Right.
It's not big enough, and there's
not enough interest in the
subject matter.
>> HINOJOSA: And so you just
continue to beat your head
against the wall and say, "We're
going to do it."
But let me ask you about this,
Wes, because again, your life
story is so fascinating.
The fact that Cherokee was your
first language, I want to bring
that back to you, because you
have become something of an
activist, an educator.
You wrote children's books in
Cherokee.
And you have become active in
the indigenous language
protections here in our country.
Why?
Why does it matter to you so
much, and why should it matter
to all of us?
>> STUDI: It really is a matter of self
identification, and a way of...
how you identify yourself in the
world to other individuals.
It's a matter of really
identity.
You know, you have an identity
that is based in a language
other than English, gives you a
perhaps different outlook on
life.
Maybe it's just a... it may not
be a huge difference, but there
is a difference, and it's based
in the way languages are
structured, and what is made
important by just whatever the
sound for, say... something like
water, you know?
"Water" in the Cherokee language
is said, "Ama."
>> HINOJOSA: Ama.
>> STUDI: Ama.
>> HINOJOSA: Almost like mother.
>> STUDI: Yeah, it's something that is
like... it sounds in it's own
way as sort of a warm fuzzy
thing, wherein it's something
that is valued, it's something
that is really close to the
heart.
Ama, you know?
On the other hand, on the other
hand, there's another word that
you can say in the same
language, Cherokee, that means
"salt," you know?
And the only real difference is
that you extend the first part
of it, ama.
Ama is salt.
And then, but you say it
quicker, it's ama, ama, you
know?
>> HINOJOSA: I was actually
going to ask you about the word
for "conflict," or "war" in the
Cherokee language.
>> STUDI: Well, "war" in the Cherokee
language is "danawa."
And what it connotates is
conflict is something that is
almost a... it's an honored
necessity.
It's something that's always
been there, and it's something
that many of our men do,
because... you know, in order to
subsist in the old world.
You know, I mean, war was a
profession, a... it was what
most of the men were there for.
And they also derived their
identity from that, you know?
>> HINOJOSA: So if that's the
word for...
>> STUDI: Being a warrior is a... is
not a bad thing.
>> HINOJOSA: What is the word
for peace?
>> STUDI: I think it's just the absence
of danawa.
>> HINOJOSA: So are our young
American Indian kids, are they
being taught indigenous
languages?
Are they interested?
Is it a struggle to keep these
languages alive?
>> STUDI: It's a struggle, it's a
struggle.
It's a struggle, but it is... I
see the tip of the improvement
is beginning to show.
And it's coming back.
As a matter of fact, I think the
most telling part of it all is
that we have submersed...
classes in submersed... wherein
you speak nothing but the
language, for young people,
right?
Say from first to third grade.
>> HINOJOSA: Immersion,
basically.
>> STUDI: Total immersion, that's the
word, total immersion.
And a lot of these kids, what
was happening was they'd come to
school, and they began to use
Cherokee within their classes as
time... the more they learned.
Then they take it home.
And unfortunately, they can't
use it at home, because their
parents don't speak it, right?
>> HINOJOSA: But are they
welcoming?
Are they saying, "Yes, let's..."
>> STUDI: Well, the good thing is that
what's happened is that because
the kids have this power, their
parents are beginning to enroll
in classes as well, to be able
to communi... because I think
we've gotten the idea across
that the really only great
place, good place, to start
is... it has to be in the home.
I mean, a language, a second
language these days is a luxury,
you know?
It's hard to sell, because it's
a luxury.
But...
>> HINOJOSA: Let me ask you
this.
>> STUDI: That's the only place it can
happen, is within the home,
where it meets your needs.
A language has to meet your
needs, and it has to grow.
That's one of the things about
our own particular languages,
where we have a lot of elders
that would say, "Oh, no, no, no,
we shouldn't be able to... we
shouldn't be changing the
language.
We shouldn't be doing this and
that."
Or, "This is the old way, and
that's the only way that's right
for us."
That's not the case.
Our language has to meet the
needs of the 21st century.
It's like the technologies we
were talking about earlier, in
that... do we have a word for a
computer?
Do we have a word for iPhone?
Do we have a word for a mouse,
and all of that?
See, my mother, who's been also
involved in this endeavor, works
with a committee that has been
working almost constantly to
come up with new words that
match today's reality.
>> HINOJOSA: In the Cherokee
language.
>> STUDI: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: How beautiful.
So just...
>> STUDI: That's the only way it can
survive.
>> HINOJOSA: So finally, Wes,
you know, what do you say to our
public?
If there are people who are just
like, you know, "I want to learn
more, I want to know more, I
want to become involved," what
do you say to them?
What's... if somebody has a
further interest in
understanding our own American
Indian roots at this moment,
what do you say to them?
"Go watch movies, go read
books"?
Leave us with that thought, of
what you want them to do.
>> STUDI: I think that you open up your
mind and make a conscious effort
to look around your
surroundings.
And more than likely, wherever
you live within the United
States, you're going to find
someone, some group of Indians
there, that you could actually
meet on a one-to-one basis.
>> HINOJOSA: So open your eyes,
open your mind, and interact.
>> STUDI: Open your mind and engage.
>> HINOJOSA: Thank you, Wes
Studi, for engaging with us.
It's really been an honor to
have you on the program.
>> STUDI: I think there wasn't enough
time.
>> HINOJOSA: (laughs) Well,
obviously we'll come back for
part two.
Thank you so much for all of
your work.
>> STUDI: The sequel.
>> HINOJOSA: The sequel.
Continue the conversation at
wgbh.or/oneonone.
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