Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: FROM THE WORLD OF
SUZIE WONG TO THE JOY LUCK CLUB,
SHE'S PLAYED EVERYTHING FROM A
BOND GIRL TO THE MOST POWERFUL
WOMAN IN CHINA.
LEGENDARY ACTOR TSAI CHIN.
I'M MARIA HINOJOSA.
THIS IS ONE ON ONE.
TSAI CHIN, YOU ARE THE GRAND
DAME OF THEATER, OF FILM.
YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE JAMES BOND
MOVIE YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE AND
CASINO ROYALE, THE
INTERPRETER, MEMOIRS OF A
GEISHA.
PROBABLY MOST PEOPLE WILL
REMEMBER YOU FROM THE MOVIE
THE JOY LUCK CLUB.
AND BECAUSE... IN PREPARATION
FOR THIS INTERVIEW I WATCHED
THE JOY LUCK CLUB NOW THREE OR
FOUR TIMES.
WHAT AN AMAZING MOVIE.
THE JOY LUCK CLUB REALLY WAS AN
EXTRAORDINARY MOVIE.
BUT FOR YOU AS AN ACTRESS, WHEN
IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A SLIVER OF
THIS EXTRAORDINARY CAREER... BUT
WHAT DID THAT MOVIE MEAN FOR
YOU?
>> CHIN: I THINK FIRST OF THE MOVIE AS
A THRESHOLD, YOU KNOW?
IT WAS THE FIRST MOVIE
EVER THAT 99.6%, OR WHATEVER,
THEY'RE ALL ASIANS.
THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.
AND IT BECAME A HIT.
NOT A, YOU KNOW, BLOCKBUSTER
HIT, BUT A HIT.
AND SO THAT SHOWS THAT A LOT OF
ASIANS DO HAVE TALENT.
AND THEREFORE, IN A WAY, THERE'S
NO EXCUSE TO SAY, "WELL, THAT'S
VERY DIFFICULT."
FOR ME, OF COURSE, IT'S LIFE
CHANGING, BECAUSE I WAS LIVING
IN LONDON THEN, AND THE
HOLLYWOOD DOOR WAS SUDDENLY
OPENED TO ME.
AND PEOPLE START... AGENTS, FOR
INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, WANT TO
REPRESENT ME.
AND BY THAT TIME, I WAS ALREADY,
YOU KNOW, NO CHICKEN ANYMORE,
SMALL YOUNG CHICKEN, NO CHICK.
YOU KNOW, I'M IN MY 60'S, EARLY
60'S.
AND SO THEY SAID, "WELL,
YOU CAN'T COMMUTE, YOU KNOW,
LIKE ROBERT REDFORD OR ANTHONY
HOPKINS.
YOU HAVE TO COME TO HOLLYWOOD."
SO LIKE A FOOL, AND I'M A
RISK-TAKER SO I CAME TO
HOLLYWOOD.
>> HINOJOSA: SO EVEN... BECAUSE
WHAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW
ABOUT YOU IS THAT YOU HAVE THIS
EXTRAORDINARY CAREER IN THE
THEATER, AND THEN YOU... YOU
KNOW, YOU MAKE THIS
HOLLYWOOD MOVIE.
IT'S SOMETHING OF A HIT.
BUT YOU BASICALLY SAY, "OKAY,
NOW I'M GOING TO MOVE TO
HOLLYWOOD"?
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: WOW.
AND HOW DID IT GO?
>> CHIN: WELL, YOU KNOW, I COULD, YOU
KNOW, BE A TOTAL FAILURE, BUT
THE MINUTE I ARRIVED, SOMEBODY
GAVE ME A HUGE TELEVISION
SERIES, OKAY?
PILOT, ONE HOUR.
>> HINOJOSA: OKAY.
>> CHIN: WHAT IS IT?
I REMEMBER.
THE GUY WHO MADE MAGNUM...
>> HINOJOSA: P.I.
>> CHIN: HUGE, YOU KNOW?
AND I DIDN'T TO GO AND SEE THE
SUITS, YOU KNOW?
>> HINOJOSA: YOU CALL THEM THE
SUITS?
>> CHIN: ALL THE PEOPLE THAT, YOU
KNOW, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO
GET A TELEVISION SERIES.
SO I THOUGHT THAT EVERY ACTOR
GETS A TELEVISION SERIES.
>> HINOJOSA: JUST BY ARRIVING
INTO HOLLYWOOD?
>> CHIN: LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY...
YEAH, IF THEY LIKE YOU.
SO... BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE...
>> HINOJOSA: THE PILOT?
>> CHIN: THE PILOT DIDN'T GET... WHAT
YOU CALL IT?
>> HINOJOSA: PICKED UP.
>> CHIN: YEAH, PICKED UP.
AND IN FACT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, ONE
OF THE FEW PILOTS OF HIS THAT
DIDN'T GET PICKED UP.
SO, I MEAN, IN A WAY IT'S QUITE
GOOD BECAUSE I WOULD PROBABLY BE
INSUFFERABLE IF... MORE
INSUFFERABLE.
>> HINOJOSA: BUT NOW, PEOPLE
WILL ALSO SEE YOUR FACE, AND
THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, "WAIT A
SECOND.
I KNOW HER FROM GREY'S
ANATOMY."
>> CHIN: YEAH, I MEAN, PEOPLE IN...
THE NICEST PART IS NOT WHEN
PEOPLE COME AND SAY "I'M YOUR
FAN."
IN MY PROFESSION, YOU DON'T KNOW
WHETHER THEY MEAN IT OR NOT.
BUT IF YOU'RE, LIKE, QUEUEING UP
OR SOMETHING, SOME WOMAN WITH A
CHILD, NOT IN THE BUSINESS
REALLY LIKE YOU, YOU KNOW, LIKE
YOUR ACTING, I FIND THAT VERY
GRATIFYING.
AND THE OTHER DAY I WAS HAVING A
BAD DAY, AND I WAS DRIVING, AND
I WAS SCOLDED BY A POLICEWOMAN
FOR, YOU KNOW, STOPPING AT THE
RED LIGHT TOO EARLY.
SO THE WINDOW WAS OPEN, AND
SUDDENLY A CYCLIST COME UP,
OBVIOUSLY A FILM BUFF, YOU KNOW,
AND, "OH," HE SAID, "I REALLY
LIKE YOUR WORK."
>> HINOJOSA: OH, MY GOD.
>> CHIN: I SAID, "YOU MADE MY DAY."
>> HINOJOSA: SOMETIMES PEOPLE
DON'T REALIZE IT-- ACTORS LOVE
IT WHEN REAL PEOPLE COME AND
SAY...
>> CHIN: THAT'S TRUE.
>> HINOJOSA: AND
I THINK IN THE MOVIE, TO GO BACK
TO THE JOY LUCK CLUB FOR A
SECOND, BECAUSE FOR ME, NOW
WATCHING IT AGAIN WITH MY
DAUGHTER, WHO IS 11, IT'S ONE OF
THOSE MOVIES THAT YOU REALLY...
IT SHOULD BE REQUIRED VIEWING
FOR ALL AMERICAN MOMS AND THEIR
DAUGHTERS, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A
UNIVERSAL STORY.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE DONE SO
MUCH, BUT FOR A SECOND I WANT
YOU TO STAY WITH THE JOY LUCK
CLUB, BECAUSE IN THAT MOVIE
YOUR CHARACTER IS GIVEN AWAY AS
A CHILD BRIDE AND LOSES ALL OF
HER POWER.
SO AS A WOMAN WHO IS SO
INCREDIBLY POWERFUL IN HER LIFE
AND IN HER CAREER, WHAT WAS THAT
LIKE FOR YOU TO TAP INTO THAT
PLACE OF BEING A YOUNG CHINESE
GIRL WHO IS ESSENTIALLY
POWERLESS?
>> CHIN: WELL, YOU KNOW, I CHOSE TO...
I ASKED IF I COULD PLAY AUNTIE
LINDO WHEN I DIDN'T EVEN
KNOW... WHEN I WAS NOT FAMILIAR
WITH THE SCRIPT, BECAUSE IT WAS
VERY INSTINCTIVE.
BUT THERE ARE
A COUPLE OF THINGS ABOUT AUNTIE
LINDO THAT I LIKED.
FIRST OF ALL, SHE LOVED HER
MOTHER.
>> HINOJOSA: OH, ADORED HER
MOTHER.
>> CHIN: I LOVED MY MOTHER.
AND WHEN WE DID THE FAMOUS SCENE
IN THE BEAUTY PARLOR, WE DID IT
FOR A LONG TIME-- A WEEK OR
SOMETHING, YOU KNOW.
AND I ASKED THEM TO PLAY A LINE
BEFORE WE GO INTO THE SCENE,
EVERY TIME.
SOMETHING TO DO WITH MY MOTHER.
SO THEREFORE THE EMOTION WILL
COME AUTOMATICALLY.
AND THE OTHER THING IS, YOU
KNOW, AUNTIE LINDO IS NOT A
VERY... NOT AN EASY PERSON.
>> HINOJOSA: NO.
>> CHIN: WHICH I CAN IDENTIFY WITH.
AND THEREFORE I THINK SHE'S
PROBABLY QUITE INTERESTING.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU LIKE TOUGH
WOMEN.
>> CHIN: I LIKE TOUGH WOMEN, BEING ONE
MYSELF.
YEAH.
I'M NO SHRINKING VIOLET.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU ARE NOT A
SHRINKING VIOLET.
YOU WERE THE FIRST PERSON... LET
ME GET THIS RIGHT.
WERRE YOU THE FIRST CHINESE
PERSON TO STUDY AT THE ROYAL
ACADEMY OF DRAMATIC ARTS?
>> CHIN: YES.
>> HINOJOSA: THE VERY, VERY
FIRST CHINESE...
>> CHIN: VERY FIRST, AND NOT ONLY
THAT.
WHEN I CAME OUT, I WAS
SUDDENLY... SUZIE WONG AND
FLOWER DRUM SONG BOTH CAME TO
ENGLAND AND I GOT BOTH.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU WERE...
>> CHIN: I GOT BOTH, OKAY?
>> HINOJOSA: YOU WERE SUZIE
WONG, THE SUZIE WONG?
>> CHIN: I WAS ALSO CAST AS... I WAS
CAST AS THE LEAD IN
FLOWER DRUM SONG.
SO I HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE
TWO.
HOW MANY CHANCES DOES AN ASIAN
ACTRESS HAVE?
AND THE TWO BIGGEST SHOW COMES
TO TOWN AND I CAN'T DO BOTH.
ANYWAY, FIRST OF ALL, I DID NOT
PLAY SUZIE WONG AS A VICTIM.
I NEVER PLAY PEOPLE AS A VICTIM.
IT'S JUST BY INSTINCT.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU DON'T LIKE TO
PLAY THE VICTIM.
SO OFTENTIMES THERE IS A
PERCEPTION OF ASIAN WOMEN AS THE
VICTIMS.
>> CHIN: YES.
>> HINOJOSA: AND YOU BASICALLY
ARE SAYING, "THAT'S NOT OUR
STORY WHATSOEVER."
>> CHIN: WELL, YOU HAVE TO... YOU HAVE
TO TRADE IN A SENSE.
I'LL GIVE YOU A VERY RECENT
EXAMPLE.
I DID TELEVISION, WHICH... THE
SCENE IS... THE WOMAN HAS MANY
SCENES.
AND THEY WANT TO SHOOT
IT THE FIRST DAY, AND LOTS AND
LOTS OF DIALOGUE.
AND IT'S PRETTY... NOW, YOU
KNOW, PEOPLE ARE MUCH BETTER.
THEY DON'T STEREOTYPE THAT MUCH.
BUT THEN I NOTICE THERE ARE TWO
LINES WHICH I DON'T WANT THIS
WOMAN TO SAY.
SO I GOT THERE THE FIRST DAY.
THEY WERE VERY WORRIED.
THEY THOUGHT I COULDN'T REMEMBER
ALL THESE LINES.
AS IT HAPPENS, MY MEMORY IS
STILL INTACT.
SO I SAT THE PRODUCER AND
DIRECTOR... NO, PRODUCER AND
WRITER DOWN.
SHE IS A WOMAN, WHICH MAKES A
LOT OF DIFFERENCE.
I SAT HER DOWN, AND I SAID,
"DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE LINES.
I WILL NOW SAY IT TO YOU."
I SAID THE FOUR SCENES-- "BLAH,
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH,"
SAID IT TO YOU.
OH, EVERYBODY GOT VERY RELIEVED.
"OKAY, OKAY."
I SAID, "EXCEPT, CAN I
ASK... CAN I REQUEST?
I DON'T WANT TO SAY THESE TWO
LINES, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
IT'S VERY GOOD FOR THIS
CHARACTER."
>> HINOJOSA: YOU... IN YOUR
HISTORY AS AN ACTRESS, THERE
CAME A POINT WHEN YOU SAID, "I
WILL NOT PLAY ANY STEREOTYPICAL
ASIAN WOMEN ROLES."
AND WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT?
>> CHIN: WELL, WHEN THAT GOT TO THAT,
I HAD, FIRST OF ALL, LOST ALL MY
MONEY, OKAY?
I MEAN, MY LIFE IS FULL OF
DRAMA, LET'S FACE IT.
AND THEN I REACHED 40.
AND WHEN AN ACTRESS REACH 40--
I THINK FOR A MAN, WHEN HE
REACHES 50-- THAT IS A VERY
DIFFICULT TIME, BECAUSE YOU ARE
NO LONGER YOUNG AND PRETTY.
>> HINOJOSA: AND PEOPLE... YOU
KNOW, YOU WERE... YOU STILL ARE
A SEX SYMBOL.
>> CHIN: MANY... YES, I WAS.
>> HINOJOSA: THERE'S AN OPENING
SHOT IN THE MOVIE YOU ONLY LIVE
TWICE WITH JAMES BOND, WITH
SEAN CONNERY.
THIS IS THE 1960'S, AND YOU ARE
IN BED WITH SEAN CONNERY, LIVING
IT UP.
>> CHIN: Jessica: NOT ONLY THAT--
SUZIE WANG WAS A SEX SYMBOL.
>> HINOJOSA: HUGE SEX SYMBOL.
>> CHIN: SO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, WORE
THE SAME HAIR.
AND I WAS THE FIRST TO WEAR
FISHNET STOCKINGS, ALL RIGHT?
>> HINOJOSA: OH, MY GOD.
>> CHIN: AND EVERYBODY START TO WEAR
FISHNET STOCKINGS IN ENGLAND,
ANYWAY.
SO YES, IN A WAY, YEAH, IF
YOU'RE A SEX SYMBOL, BUT I THINK
FOR ALL ACTRESSES, AFTER 40, DO
YOU PLAY MOTHER OR DO YOU NOT
PLAY MOTHER?
YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S WHEN I...
BECAUSE OF THAT, I WENT TO
UNIVERSITY.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU WENT BACK TO
SCHOOL?
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: AND GOT A DEGREE...
>> CHIN: BECAUSE I WANT MORE POWER.
I WANT TO FIND... YOU HAVE TO
CHANGE GEAR.
YOU HAVE TO CHANGE GEAR.
>> HINOJOSA: WHAT DID YOU GO TO
STUDY IN THE UNIVERSITY?
>> CHIN: DRAMA.
AND THEN I TAUGHT AT TUFTS.
>> HINOJOSA: OH, I UNDERSTAND.
>> CHIN: AND THEY ARE VERY... THEY ARE
VERY UNUSUAL,
BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE A B.A.
I SAID "I CAN'T DO A B.A."
I SAID, "I'M TOO OLD."
WHO WANTS TO DO... OH, I DON'T
KNOW.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO FOUR
SUBJECTS.
>> HINOJOSA: WHEN YOU ARE
TEACHING YOUNG ACTORS, AS SUCH A
POWERFUL WOMAN AS YOURSELF, WHAT
IS THE MESSAGE YOU WANT TO GIVE
TO ACTORS?
>> CHIN: STRENGTH.
>> HINOJOSA: BUT IT'S SO HARD.
SO MANY OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE
FEEL LIKE "I'M NOT SURE."
>> CHIN: THAT'S WHEN... I TELL YOU, IT
WAS THE MOST REWARDING TIME OF
MY LIFE TEACHING THESE KIDS.
I LOVE TO SEE THESE KIDS, YOU
KNOW, PIMPLE AND EVERYTHING, AND
NOT SURE OF THEMSELVES...
>> HINOJOSA: AND THIS IS RIGHT
HERE AT TUFTS?
>> CHIN: YES.
>> HINOJOSA: TUFTS UNIVERSITY.
>> CHIN: AFTER ONE YEAR. I SAID, "I
KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING
TO BE ACTORS, BUT I WANT YOU TO
AT THE END SPEAK ONE SPEECH
PERFECT."
AND I SAID TO THEM VERY...
BECAUSE IT'S VERY POPULAR, THIS
COURSE.
NOT... I HAVE SOMETHING
TO DO WITH IT, BUT ONLY LITTLE.
BECAUSE THEY THINK IT'S VERY
EASY, YOU SEE?
ACTING IS VERY EASY, YOU
CAN GET FOUR CREDITS.
AND I SAY TO THEM, "FIRST OF
ALL, I'M GOING TO TREAT YOU JUST
LIKE PROFESSIONALS.
EVERYTHING'S TO DO WITH
PROFESSIONALISM.
FOR INSTANCE, YOU COME IN, YOU
DON'T THROW YOUR CLOTHES ALL
OVER THE PLACE.
WHY?
BECAUSE WHEN YOU START, YOU WILL
BE STARTING IN SOME POOR
THEATER.
YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AFTER YOUR
OWN COSTUME."
>> HINOJOSA: OH, I LOVE THIS.
I WANT TO TAKE A THEATER CLASS
WITH YOU.
>> CHIN: AND THEN I TOLD THEM, "I HAVE
TO BE HONEST.
IT MAY BE POLITICALLY INCORRECT.
THE LAST TWO PLACES WILL BE
RESERVED FOR AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN
AND FOR ASIAN.
I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU..." AND
THEY LOVED ME FOR BEING VERY
HONEST, YOU SEE?
AND I ALWAYS REMEMBER ONCE,
THERE WAS A BLACK... HE WAS LIKE
35 YEARS OLD.
HE STILL TALKS ABOUT ME.
AND HE'S ALWAYS FALLING OFF
SEATS, YOU KNOW?
AND I SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU TRYING
TO DO?"
AND I JUST TEACH THEM JUST TO BE
STRONG.
>> HINOJOSA: I WANT TO TALK TO
YOU ABOUT... BECAUSE FOR ME,
REALLY, THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE
MOST FUN PREPARATIONS FOR AN
INTERVIEW, BECAUSE IT TOOK ME
INTO YOUR LIFE.
AND YOU WROTE AN AMAZING MEMOIR,
DAUGHTER FROM SHANGHAI.
AND YOUR MEMOIR TALKS ABOUT THE
FACT THAT YOU HAVE A DAD WHO WAS
A STAR, A HUGE STAR IN CHINA OF
THE PEKING OPERA.
AND YOUR MOM...
>> CHIN: MY MOM WAS VERY RICH AND
ELOPED WITH HIM.
IN THE '20s-- CAN YOU IMAGINE?
>> HINOJOSA: BREAKING ALL KINDS
OF STEREOTYPES.
>> CHIN: AND SHE COULD SURVIVE.
SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN... SHE WAS
DISINHERITED.
SHE COULD HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW...
END UP TERRIBLE.
BUT MY GOD, SHE BECAME... YOU
KNOW, SO SHE CAN'T ACT FOR NUTS,
BUT...
>> HINOJOSA: BUT WHAT HAPPENS...
YOU HAVE AN EXTRAORDINARY LIFE.
YOUR PARENTS DECIDE TO SEND YOU
TO GREAT BRITAIN.
YOUR SISTER IS STUDYING AT
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN NEW YORK
CITY.
THIS IS IN, LIKE, THE
1930'S, '40s?
>> CHIN: MY SISTER WAS THE FIRST... MY
ELDEST SISTER WAS THE FIRST
STUDENT THAT WENT TO AMERICA
BECAUSE OF THE JAPANESE
COMPENSATION.
THAT MONEY, YOU KNOW.
BEFORE MY SISTER'S GENERATION,
WHEN YOU WENT TO... CHINESE ARE
REGARDED AS EITHER COOLIES OR
LAUNDRYMEN.
SHE WAS THE FIRST
GENERATION... YOU KNOW, THERE IS
A JOKE, "KNOCK, KNOCK, THERE IS
A CHINAMAN, NO LAUNDRY TONIGHT."
"KNOCK, KNOCK."
MY SISTER'S GENERATION, "KNOCK,
KNOCK, THERE IS A CHINESE.
ARE YOU DOCTOR SO-AND-SO?"
SO THERE IS THIS JOKE, YOU KNOW?
>> HINOJOSA: BUT I WANT TO TAKE
YOU TO... BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
YOUR LIFE, AGAIN, IT'S AN
EXTRAORDINARY DRAMA.
BUT PART OF THE DRAMA IS THAT
YOU LEAVE, YOU AND YOUR BROTHERS
AND SISTERS, YOU LEAVE, AND YOUR
MOM AND DAD STAY IN CHINA.
AND THEN CHINA GOES UNDER THE
PROCESS OF A REVOLUTION, AND
YOUR PARENTS ARE STILL THERE.
YOUR DAD IS STILL A HUGE STAR.
BUT THEN THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION
HAPPENS IN 1966.
YOU'RE ALREADY LIVING ON THIS
SIDE.
AND THIS IS THE PART THAT'S
EXTRAORDINARY FOR ME.
BECAUSE FOR EIGHT YEARS...
>> CHIN: TEN.
>> HINOJOSA: TEN YEARS, YOU LOSE
TOTAL CONTACT WITH YOUR MOM AND
DAD.
>> CHIN: THE BAMBOO CURTAIN,
SO-CALLED, CAME DOWN.
THERE IS NO COMMUNICATION.
>> HINOJOSA: AND IT'S NOT LIKE
YOU COULDN'T PICK UP THE PHONE
AND CALL YOUR MOM.
>> CHIN: THERE IS NO PHONE ANYMORE.
THEIR HOUSES... JUST LIKE DR.
ZHIVAGO, THE HOUSE IS OCCUPIED
BY EVERYBODY ELSE, AND THEY
LIVE IN THE... IN THE SERVANTS'
QUARTERS.
>> HINOJOSA: WHAT'S IT LIKE FOR
YOU TO KNOW THAT YOUR MOM AND
DAD ESSENTIALLY BOTH... BOTH OF
THEM PASSED AS A RESULT OF THE
CULTURAL REVOLUTION?
>> CHIN: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU
DIDN'T KNOW, OKAY?
YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
BECAUSE UNTIL... AT THE END,
WHEN IT OPENED UP, YOU KNOW.
SECONDLY, I USED TO HAVE
TERRIBLE NIGHTMARES.
NIGHTMARES OF MY MOTHER, GIVING
HER GLASS OF WATER AND THE
GLASS... ICED WATER, FULL OF
ICE, AND THE ICE WAS MADE
OF GLASS AND CHOKED HER.
ALL THESE SORT OF DREAMS.
AND IT DID AFFECT MY LIFE.
ON THE BEST SIDE, PERHAPS-- I
TRIED TO SEE THE BEST-- MADE ME
BETTER ACTOR BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
EVERYTHING I DO AND FEEL IS
FREELY FROM THE DEPTH OF MY
STOMACH, YOU KNOW?
>> HINOJOSA: YOU FOUND OUT YOUR
DAD PASSED BY READING THE
PAPERS?
>> CHIN: MY FATHER, FIND OUT BY
READING THE NEW YORK TIMES HE'S
STILL ALIVE.
BECAUSE MADAM MAO USES HIM
EVERY TIME THINGS ARE QUIET AS
THE MAIN... PUT HIM ONSTAGE...
>> HINOJOSA: SCAPEGOAT.
>> CHIN: YEAH, YEAH.
AND MY MOTHER, OF COURSE,
ALREADY DIED, BEATEN MANY TIMES
BY THE RED GUARDS.
>> HINOJOSA: AND YOU LIVED
THROUGH IT, AND THEN YOU
DECIDE...
>> CHIN: WELL, IRONICALLY, WHEN THEY
WERE DOING IT, I HAD THE
GREATEST TIME IN ENGLAND, DON'T
FORGET, BECAUSE IT WAS THE '60s.
>> HINOJOSA: SO YOU'RE HAVING AN
AMAZING LIFE AS AN ARTIST.
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: AS A HUMAN BEING.
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: AND YOUR PARENTS
ARE LIVING IN HELL.
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: MANY, MANY YEARS
LATER, YOU ARE INVITED BACK AS
THE GRAND DAME, NOW SEEN AGAIN
AS THE GRAND ACTRESS.
YOU'RE INVITED BACK TO CHINA TO
TEACH.
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: SO NOW YOU'RE
TEACHING CHINESE YOUNG PEOPLE...
>> CHIN: YEAH, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T
HAVE ANY UNIVERSITY FOR TEN
YEARS.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHO ARTHUR
MILLER IS.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHO
PINTER IS.
THE ONLY PERSON THEY KNEW,
BRECHT, BECAUSE BRECHT IS EAST
GERMANY.
AT THAT TIME-- I CAN'T DO IT
NOW-- I GAVE A LECTURE FOR THREE
HOURS.
AND AT THAT TIME I COULD BECAUSE
I JUST CAME OUT OF UNIVERSITY, I
AM FULL OF THE HUMAN CONDITION
AND THIS DRAMA TERMINOLOGY,
WHICH I CAN'T DO ANYMORE, YOU
KNOW.
>> HINOJOSA: SO AT THAT POINT,
DID YOU IMAGINE... DID YOU
THINK, "LOOK, HOLLYWOOD IS ON MY
RADAR, HOLLYWOOD..." BECAUSE
NOW YOU LIVE IN HOLLYWOOD.
>> CHIN: NO, THAT WAS BEFORE
HOLLYWOOD.
>> HINOJOSA: EXACTLY, BUT WERE
YOU THINKING AT ALL LIKE
HOLLYWOOD MIGHT BE SOMETHING
THAT...
>> CHIN: NO, I NEVER THINK HOLLYWOOD
MIGHT BE SOMETHING EVER, BECAUSE
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, MY...
THE ACTORS IN ENGLAND, MY TIME,
THEY MAY WANT TO GO TO
HOLLYWOOD...
>> HINOJOSA: BUT THEY WOULD
NEVER SAY SO.
>> CHIN: THEY WOULD NEVER SAY SO.
IT'S LIKE REALLY SELLING
YOURSELF.
YOU SEE, SO YOU NEVER THINK
ABOUT HOLLYWOOD.
AND YOU NEVER THINK ABOUT
GETTING AWARDS.
NOW, OF COURSE, THERE IS AN
AWARD EVERY YEAR, RIGHT?
I MEAN, NOT EVERY YEAR.
EVERY DAY, EVERY DAY.
>> HINOJOSA: EVERY MONTH.
>> CHIN: NO, EVERY DAY.
YOU NEVER THINK OF GETTING
AWARDS.
ME?
YOU KNOW, LITTLE OLD ME WHO IS
AN ETHNIC ACTRESS?
SO, I MEAN, GO TO HOLLYWOOD?
OH, NO, I WOULDN'T POSSIBLY SELL
MYSELF.
>> HINOJOSA: BUT IN THE END,
HOLLYWOOD HAS... IF YOU...
>> CHIN: IN THE END, I MEAN, A LOT
ENGLISH ACTORS ALSO IN THE END
CAME TO HOLLYWOOD, ALL RIGHT?
AND NEW YORK ACTORS WHO TRIED TO
BE ARTISTS, THEY HAVE TO EARN
SOME MONEY BEFORE THEY RETIRE.
SO I ALWAYS THINK CHINA... CHINA
GAVE ME MY ROOTS, AND ENGLAND
NURTURED ME, AND HOLLYWOOD...
AMERICA REWARDED ME.
>> HINOJOSA: INTERESTING.
SO AT THIS POINT IN YOUR
CAREER...
>> CHIN: YOU MEAN AT THIS POINT?
>> HINOJOSA: YEAH, NO.
RIGHT NOW.
I GUESS THE REASON I'M THINKING
ABOUT IT IS BECAUSE AGAIN AFTER
SEEING A MOVIE LIKE THE JOY
LUCK CLUB... OH, BY THE WAY, I
DID TAKE OUT MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA
AND WATCHED THAT AS WELL, IN
WHICH YOU ARE ALSO
EXTRAORDINARY.
>> CHIN: WELL, NOBODY EVER
RECOGNIZE... WHICH IS MY
INTENTION, YOU KNOW?
>> HINOJOSA: THAT THEY DON'T
RECOGNIZE YOU FROM...
>> CHIN: NOBODY RECOGNIZE ME.
>> HINOJOSA: WELL, EVERYBODY
SHOULD GO BACK AND WATCH MEMOIRS
OF A GEISHA.
YOU DID SUCH A WONDERFUL JOB.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOLLYWOOD,
THE FACT THAT... THE JOY LUCK
CLUB CAME OUT IN WHAT, '97,
MORE OR LESS?
LATE 1990'S.
IT'S BEEN ABOUT TEN YEARS.
>> CHIN: NO, '91, ISN'T IT?
>> HINOJOSA: REALLY?
SO...
>> CHIN: NO, '93.
>> HINOJOSA: SO WE HAVEN'T HAD
ANOTHER MOVIE WITH
ASIAN-AMERICAN... ASIAN...
>> CHIN: NO.
>> HINOJOSA: WHAT NEEDS TO
HAPPEN?
>> CHIN: BECAUSE, YOU SEE, AFTER
JOY LUCK CLUB, EVERYBODY
SAID, "OH, YEAH, LET'S DO MORE,"
YOU KNOW?
AND THEN, YOU KNOW,
YOU FORGET ABOUT IT, RIGHT?
AND ALSO ANOTHER THING WHICH
AMUSED ME TOO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE
HOT ONLY LITERALLY FOR A YEAR.
>> HINOJOSA: ONE YEAR.
>> CHIN: YEAH, I MEAN, LITERALLY.
BECAUSE NEXT... BECAUSE THERE IS
SOMEBODY ELSE COMING TO IT.
AND SO... IT'S GETTING BETTER,
BECAUSE THE YOUNGER GENERATION.
AND ALSO, I THINK, YOU KNOW,
IT'S A DEMAND AND SUPPLY THING.
IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WAS NO
DEMAND.
AND THEREFORE, THERE WAS NO
SUPPLY.
AND IT'S A VICIOUS CIRCLE THIS
WAY.
SO THE YOUNG ACTORS NOW ARE
BETTER TRAINED, I HOPE.
THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF THEM
HERE NOT STAGE-TRAINED, WHICH I
FIND IT REALLY... BECAUSE YOU
DON'T LAST VERY LONG IF YOU
DON'T.
I MEAN, SANDRA OH, FOR
INSTANCE, SHE IS A STAGE-TRAINED
ACTRESS.
>> HINOJOSA: AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S
SO FUNNY?
I WAS WITH SANDRA OH MAYBE A
YEAR AND A HALF BEFORE GREY'S
ANATOMY.
AND SHE WAS A LITTLE BIT
FRUSTRATED AS AN ASIAN
ACTRESS... SHE'S CANADIAN.
>> CHIN: YEAH.
>> HINOJOSA: SHE WAS SAYING, YOU
KNOW, "IN THE UNITED STATES IT
FEELS LIKE YOU ARE ALWAYS SEEN
THROUGH THE PRISM OF YOU'RE AN
ASIAN ACTOR."
SHE SAID IN CANADA IT WASN'T
THAT WAY.
AND SHE WAS FRUSTRATED
WITH NOT BEING ABLE TO KIND OF
PUSH THROUGH.
WELL, NOW, SANDRA OH IS A HUGE
STAR.
>> CHIN: SO WE HAVE HER.
WE HAVE LUCY LIU.
BUT ALSO WE NEED A LOT OF
PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, LIKE LATINO.
WE NEED PEOPLE BEHIND IT.
>> HINOJOSA: YEAH.
>> CHIN: BEHIND IT.
BUT I WILL ALSO-- AT THE RISK
OF BEING UNPOPULAR, WHICH I
OFTEN BECOME-- I THINK WE CAN
ALWAYS BLAME OTHER PEOPLE, BUT
ASIANS, ESPECIALLY CHINESE--
I'LL JUST SAY CHINESE-- DO NOT
SUPPORT THEIR OWN ARTISTS
ENOUGH.
>> HINOJOSA: WHEN YOU SAID THAT,
I... AND YOU DO.
YOU SAY IT VERY CLEARLY.
YOU SAY ASIAN PEOPLE IN THE
UNITED STATES ARE NOT SUPPORTIVE
OF ASIAN ACTORS, ASIANS IN THE
ARTS.
>> CHIN: NOT THE YOUNG PEOPLE.
THEY'RE DOING IT.
THEY'RE VERY HUNGRY.
I'M TALKING ABOUT MY GENERATION.
>> HINOJOSA: WHAT DO YOU THINK
THAT'S ABOUT?
>> CHIN: WELL, TWO THINGS.
ONE IS THEY ARE BUSY SURVIVING.
>> HINOJOSA: YEAH.
>> CHIN: WORKING, YOU KNOW?
THE OTHER THING IS-- THIS IS MY
THEORY AND I AM STICKING TO IT--
CHINESE HAVE AN INNATE
DISRESPECT FOR ARTISTS.
>> HINOJOSA: I KNOW, AND WHEN
YOU WHEN YOU SAID THAT I WAS
LIKE...
>> CHIN: BECAUSE HISTORICALLY, AN
EDUCATED MAN, A CULTURED MAN,
HAS TO KNOW HOW TO PAINT, HAS TO
KNOW HOW TO WRITE POETRY, HOW
TO BE... HE HAS TO KNOW
EVERYTHING, BUT HE DOES NOT EARN
A LIVING BY IT.
HOW DOES HE EARN A LIVING?
BY BEING AN OFFICIAL.
OR BEING A HERMIT.
IF YOU ARE EARNING A LIVING
DOING THESE THINGS, YOU ARE NOT
AN ARTIST, YOU ARE A CRAFTSMAN.
AND CRAFTSMEN ARE TREATED QUITE
DIFFERENTLY.
SO EVEN MY FATHER... MY FATHER
WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST ACTORS.
OF COURSE, FAMOUS, BLAH, BLAH,
BLAH.
BUT IN THE END, EVEN WHEN
I WAS A CHILD, I WOULD GET
CHILDREN SAY, "AND WHO DO YOU
THINK YOU ARE?
YOU'RE JUST AN ACTOR'S
DAUGHTER."
>> HINOJOSA: (gasps)
>> CHIN: BUT THIS IS ALSO THE SAME,
LIKE 300 YEARS AGO IN EUROPE.
>> HINOJOSA: WELL, LET ME ASK
YOU ABOUT... BECAUSE WE'VE GOT
ANOTHER MINUTE AND A HALF LEFT.
BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR
NEXT AMAZING PROJECT.
BECAUSE FAR BE IT FOR ANYONE TO
THINK TSAI CHIN IS NOT DOING ANY
WORK.
BECAUSE YOU ARE WORKING HARD.
YOU SPENT A YEAR FILMING IN
CHINA A HUGE SERIES CALLED
THE DREAM OF THE RED CHAMBER.
AND IT'S A 50-HOUR SERIES.
WILL WE EVER SEE IT IN THE
UNITED STATES?
>> CHIN: WELL, YOU CAN SEE IT PROBABLY
EVENTUALLY WHEN IT COMES ON
CHANNEL 18, THAT FOR SURE.
AND IT WILL BE SUBTITLED
EVENTUALLY.
>> HINOJOSA: AND THAT EXPERIENCE
OF WORKING, AGAIN, IN CHINA
NOW... YOU KNOW, KIND OF CLOSURE
FOR YOU?
>> CHIN: YEAH.
AND IT'S LIKE... I AM VERY SORT
OF KIND OF BOAST, "NOW I WILL BE
IN CHINESE TELEVISION HISTORY."
>> HINOJOSA: HUGE.
>> CHIN: AND I THINK JOY LUCK CLUB
WILL AT LEAST LET ME HAVE A FOOT
IN AMERICAN ASIAN TELEVISION.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO PUT LAST
PLUG THAT MY BOOK THE DAUGHTER
OF SHANGHAI WILL BE A PLAY
WRITTEN BY... HAS WRITTEN BY
DAVID HENRY HWANG.
>> HINOJOSA: WHICH IS
EXTRAORINARY.
AND WILL WE SEE THIS ON
BROADWAY?
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE HOPING?
>> CHIN: I THINK HOPEFULLY OFF
BROADWAY AT LEAST.
IT'S NOT COMMERCIAL ENOUGH TO
GET TO BROADWAY.
IT'S NOT A MUSICAL.
>> HINOJOSA: WE COULD DREAM.
>> CHIN: YEAH, WE CAN DREAM.
>> HINOJOSA: TSAI CHIN, IT HAS
BEEN A REAL HONOR TO HAVE YOU ON
MY SHOW.
>> CHIN: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> HINOJOSA: YOU ARE AN
EXTRAORDINARY ROLE MODEL, AND WE
LOVE YOU FOR BEING STRONG.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> HINOJOSA: CONTINUE THE
CONVERSATION AT
WGBH.ORG/ONEONONE.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
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