Ray Suarez

MARIA:  So Ray, you’re the Senior Correspondent at the News Hour. Everybody also knows you from Talk of the Nation on NPR. But I want to ask you this-- When I was growing up in Chicago, I remember seeing John Quiñones on television. I remember seeing Geraldo on television, doing reporting. And I thought-- maybe I could. But who did you see? When was the spark?

RAY:  Well, uh-- growing up at the-- around the same time in New York, uh, when I turned on Channel 2, uh, I could see, uh, J. J. Gonzales, Aida Alvarez who worked for Channel 4 in New York-- she’s from my father’s--

MARIA:  She was on television there?

RAY:  Yeah, from my father’s hometown. So, um, there were a few. I mean, this is a metropolitan area with two million Latinos. And there were very few models of that kind-- David Diaz--

MARIA:  So these guys were around when you were growing up in New York City?

RAY:  Late ‘60s, early ‘70s, yeah.

MARIA:  And did you actually say, “Okay, there’s someone out there who’s Latino, who’s on television. And so therefore, maybe I could”?

RAY:  No. I-- You know, I-- I wish I was more of an optimist about these things, frankly. I didn’t know whether-- I was so young to be so cynical-- but I didn’t know whether they were going to be the only ones. So these were tiny ecological niches that already had their single animal in it. And-- And you were kind of out of luck.

MARIA:  This is how you were thinking about it, in Bensonhurst?

RAY:  Well, yeah-- 10, 12, 14 years old, when you’re deciding what you think you might be good at, what you might want to do. I didn’t know whether the doors were going to be opened just a crack, wide open, locked closed, because, “Hey. We already have one, so we don’t need any more.” And at different times, in the intervening 30 years, all those things have been true. Some companies feel, “Hey, we got one, you know. We’ll put him on those pictures that television stations put in their lobbies, and we’re covered. And we’re cool, and that’s it. And we don’t have to look any more.”

MARIA:  Right.

RAY:  And that’s been the reality, too, as-- as well as places sort of getting religion and saying, “No, this is great. Where do we get more?”

MARIA:  You know Ray, I want to talk to you, though, about growing up in New York as a Puerto Rican. It’s hard to say, but-- but-- but you know that many people across the country, who don’t know about Puerto Ricans, still, in this day and age, think Puerto Ricans-- think bad things.

RAY:  Oh yeah-- negative associations.

MARIA:  Negative things.

RAY:  Sure.

MARIA:  And you were growing up in Bensonhurst which, at that point, was an all-white neighborhood. You were feeling this racism. You said you were the only Puerto Rican family in your neighborhood.

RAY:  Mm-hmm.

MARIA:  And your mom actually went to rent the apartment, because she was light-skinned, and figured that they would rent to her.

RAY:  Mm-hmm.

MARIA:  So what was that racism like for you, as a kid?

RAY:  It was something that, um, you-- always caught you up short, because you couldn’t believe it. Here you are, you think of yourself as a saltwater fish swimming in salt water. So until something happens that sort of shakes you out of your-- your irrevelry, uh, you think, “Well, I belong here just as much as any other person belongs here.” And then something would happen to single you out-- and not-- not terrible things, not being, you know, chased to the edge of town, not having your car torched, not having your future compromised-- but just little, constant sleights where you’re reminded. You’re just reminded, and you have to then reconsider. You pull back and reconsider. You pull back and reconsider. So there’s a sort of insider/outsider thing that sometimes, when I think about being a reporter, um, they are, in many ways, similar.

MARIA:  Right, right.

RAY:  You are in a situation, you are watching a situation. But there’s a part of it you simply can’t participate in-- you can’t be a fully-vested part of.

MARIA:  But here’s the thing that I found interesting, Ray-- because when we were talking before we came out, you said that when you moved to Washington D.C. in the early 1990s, and you were trying to rent an apartment-- calling up, saying, “This is Rafael Suarez. I’m looking for a three-bedroom apartment,” and they wouldn’t return your calls.

RAY:  Yeah. They were using their phone answering machine as a screening device, clearly. And the funny thing-- You know, leaving Chicago, where I was very well-known-- I was on the top-rated news--

MARIA:  Big local reporter--

RAY:  Five nights a week--

MARIA:  NBC--

RAY:  Going into places and getting nice tables with no reservation. Why? Because maitre d’sand head waiters knew who I was, and they would say, “Oh, Mr. Suarez, come-- come over here.” Even though that kind of exclusion exists in Chicago, I was no longer subject to it. So it’s not that you’re diluted about what’s real and what’s really going on, but you can forget, because you’re doing eight million other things. And here I was, now a stranger in a new place, and got to be reminded again-- Now, these are apartments that, in the early ‘90s, cost $1,400, $1,500, $1,600 dollars a month. And I would say, you know, “I’m moving from Chicago. I’ve got a new job. Uh-- I need a three-bedroom apartment.” Now somebody listening might say, “Well, it could be a coincidence. Maybe they were all rented.” But I think somebody would have called me back, and said, “Oh, we have another lovely property in our-- in our chain, though, to offer you.”

MARIA:  But here-- But here’s what I find interesting, Ray, because you and I have known each other for a long time. And I don’t really sense-- or have ever really gotten a sense of anger from you. It’s not like you’re angry about this stuff.

RAY:  I’m not angry about it. I think of it as the way of the world. I think of it as really, uh, a sad and unfortunate thing for the people who feel that way. And I just got to go do my thing. And if you’re all twisted up, you think you’re taking a risk for your apartment building, because you’re going to rent to me-- oh well, you know. I’m not going to give you my money, then. I can’t-- I can’t spend every day, all-- all wrapped up in that.

MARIA:  But how much-- How much of it do you face-- day to day, in your work, as a-- as a News HourSenior Correspondent? Do you face it? Does it come up? Is it an issue?

RAY:  No, because-- because-- and-- and, we don’t often talk about this as a-- as a group. But when you’re upper middle-class, and reasonably light, and not too dark; uh, when you have a certain amount of money to build in some insulation around yourself, uh, I don’t face the same kinds of things that a-- a dishwasher, trying to get his children into a better elementary school faces. I-- I know that. I don’t kid myself. Uh, The kind of things that I occasionally face happens at a much higher and much more polite level. So--

MARIA:  For example?

RAY:  Oh, there-- You know, people sometimes say to me, “How would you feel if you found out that you just got a job because you’re Latino? Would that-- Would that upset you?” And they say it in a well-meaning, sort of, “Hey, I’m-- I’m Margaret Mead. I’m on Samoa.I’m going to do a little freelance anthropology here. How would you feel if you found that out? Would you feel bad?” And I say, “Look. I’ve been doing this a long time. And the only way I can get up in the morning and put my pants on and go to work is by realizing that, yes, there have been situations where I’ve gotten a second look-- and maybe even gotten a job because of that. But there are also an equal number of jobs that I wasn’t even considered for because of that, because employers hire Latinos when they’re looking for them.” And if they were looking to fill a Pentagon Correspondence slot, or a National Correspondence slot, and they weren’t particularly looking for a Latino, they don’t broaden their concept of a job to say, “Oh, he fits in that, a person with overseas experience, national reporting experience, plaques on the wall, good education.” They only-- When they’re only looking for a Latino, then they find one. So I say to those people, “Look, it’s 50-50. It’s awash across a long career. There have been ceilings that I’ve hit. There have been places where I have worked, where I know I’ve gone as far as I’m going to be allowed to go, because I’ve already accomplished everything they want me to do by just being here. I’m hired for trophy value and display value, and there I am. So just by drawing breath and drawing a paycheck, I’ve already accomplished their purposes. So anything I do after that is gravy.” Can I be bitter about it? I-- I guess I could be bitter about it, but I’ve had a wonderful life. I have a wonderful life. And, uh-- you know, some people who want me to be more political and more angry and more confrontational about it may say, “Look-- you know, you’re not doing your people any good by-- by taking that position.” But I also have to do my life, and I have to raise my children. And I have to accomplish things in this business creatively for myself, and I do that. That’s what I concentrate on.

MARIA:  Which is why I find it so interesting, that you have written two books on really broad, broad, broad topics. The first one, The Old Neighborhood, the changes in whether or not the neighborhoods, as we know them, are disappearing-- still in print, still selling; the new one, called The Holy Vote, about religion and politics; and I thought, “There would be a lot of inside-the-beltway reporters who would not touch religion and politics with a ten-foot pole, because they might burn some bridges.” And you jump into this?

RAY:  Well, look-- um, this is a fascinating topic. It’s one that kept dragging me in-- like poor Michael Coreleone-- every time you think you’re away from it, it keeps dragging you in. Look at the last couple of years-- Terri Schiavo; evolution; um, the make-up of the Supreme Court; controversies at the Air Force Academy over a preaching, evangelical Christianity cadet corps.

MARIA:  But we’re all reporters-- But we’re all reporters. We’re all seeing this. When you say “drawing me in,” was it because you, Ray Suarez, also someone, who, you call yourself religious and spiritual-- was it also because you felt that you needed to, kind of, come to terms with this issue yourself?

RAY:  Well, I watch American politics for a living. And I, in my private life, think of myself as somebody who’s trying to really, uh, stay in full contact and-- and full understanding of what’s going on in the culture. And I saw this happening, and I looked at the-- the range of books that were being written, and two kinds of books were being written-- by avowedly secular skeptical people, looking at the religionization of politics and saying, “Isn’t this terrible?” and religious people writing about it, saying “Aren’t those seculars terrible? Isn’t this great what we’re doing?” And there was another book in there that wasn’t being written-- by a religious American, saying, “Wait. Let’s unpack this for a minute. Is this true to our traditions? Is this true to who we are as a people? What brought this about? What’s going on here?” And that’s the book I wanted to write, and that’s-- that’s the one I wrote.

MARIA:  So when you look at Latinos and religion and politics, what do you come up with?

RAY:  Oh, it’s-- it’s just-- It’s a more interesting story. That would be whole book in itself.

MARIA:  I mean, I wrote down-- I wrote down, you know, Mormons-- huge recruitment in the Latino community. I wrote down evangelicals. I wrote down something that someone else had told me. They said, “You know, now they’re trying to get all the Latinos to become Protestants, so they have the Protestant work ethic.” And I was like, “Okay, that’s interesting.” I know-- so what do you see?

RAY:  Well, there’s all kinds of interesting things going on. Latinos, politically, still are much more interested in bread-and-butter issues. Why? Because they’re predominantly a working-class population, and are going to be, for a long time to come. There’s not some steady, all-at-once march into the solid American middle. It’s just going to take a while. So their churches are often quite socially conservative. And at the same time, when they look at the relationship between the individual and the State, when you ask them, “Should Government be helping you with your particular set of problems where you live,” they say, “Yes, absolutely, because we can’t do it on our own.” There is an illusion among a lot of middle-class Americans that they can. “Leave me alone. Get Government out of here. I’m going to do it on my own.” I want to go out one day and watch them build their own highway, but-- but that’s for another day. But Latinos will tell you, “Yes, we need Government in our-- to fix the schools. We need them to police the streets. We need them to, um, guarantee that our social services and our-- our physical neighborhood services-- garbage collection, clearing up abandoned cars-- we need the Government in here.” There isn’t that same hostility that you see in churches of the same denomination.

MARIA: In Latino churches, is-- is the politics there? Is it being preached from the pulpit?

RAY: In some of them, no. It’s an interesting mix.

MARIA:  And is that good or bad? What do you think?

RAY:  Well, look-- um, you can’t artificially separate the political from the personal, or the political from the religious. When we’re talking about a religion, where the great Savior and Teacher and Master spoke about actual common daily life-- about people in prison; about people who, uh, needed a coat. And what does it say in the Gospel of John? “If you have a coat, just give it to them. Um-- If your-- uh-- If your enemy hits you on the face, uh--

MARIA:  “Turn the other cheek.”

RAY:   “Turn the-- turn the other cheek, so he can hit the other one.” This is-- The reason Jesus spoke in parables was because they were good, concrete, basic, earthy examples of how you live with other people, and live in your town, and--

MARIA:  So when you’re in Christian communities, who-- who’ve called themselves based-- faith-based communities, um-- do you see that? Do you see the actual caring? Because oftentimes, I see one thing, but the actions say something entirely different.

RAY:  Well, Templo Calvario, for instance, in Southern California-- It started off with one church in suburban LA County. And now, it’s a-- uh-- uh a constellation of-- of churches very conservative, as far as personal morals. Girls are not wearing “hoochie” skirts, and made-- made up, uh-- you know, and-- and listening to, uh, dirty music, and all that. There’s a certain comportment that they-- that they talk to their people about. Socially conservative-- not in their politics, as much as in how I’m going to be in the world-- premarital sex, about how you care about your children, about how you handle yourself personally.

MARIA:  Important values.

RAY:  But it also taps into something that’s already deep in the people, already. It’s not like they were crazy and all over the place. And they went to Templo Calvario and heard this whole new thing that they never heard before. A lot of people don’t realize the-- the deep wells of-- of modesty that are already there in Latino communities and are just not talked about that much-- all the girls who go on their first dates with chaperones; all the older brothers who are pulled-- pulled in, and-- and enlisted at the last minute to go down there.

MARIA:  And I’ve got to tell you, you know-- I mean, I was driving through Texas one time. And I started listening to-- listening to the radio, and I started hearing a great Reggaetonrhythm. And then it turned out, it was Christian Reggaeton. I was like, wow. And they were actually saying, “Stay with your wife. Stay with your wife.” And I was like, “Oh, I like this.” Go figure. I want to turn, now, to being that inside-the-beltway reporter. Um-- Do the Washington reporters-- Do they have their grip back? Are we back at a point when they are asking the tough-- tough questions? Or are they still, as Helen Thomas as said, asleep at the wheel?

RAY:  Well, I-- I think you see a toughening attitude in the morning Press Briefing, Tony Snow getting pelted many mornings of the week. I think there’s a harder edge in the news conferences. Is this a sudden wave of infectious backbone? Uh, I-- I don’t know. But--

MARIA:  What was the turning point? Do you think it was New Orleans? Katrina?

RAY:  Well, when-- As things gradually, uh, in the view of the public started to go worse and worse for the Bush Administration, reporters felt emboldened. Um, people who are critical of the Press might say, “Well, they should have felt emboldened two years before that, when he had a 75% approval rating.” I leave that to others. I’m not a media critic. I-- It’s-- It’s hard to be, uh, in the belly of the beast, and also, uh, act like you’re not in the beast at all.

MARIA:  So if you had to be in that White House Press Briefing, day after day after day, do you think you could take it?

RAY:  Uh, the questions that were not asked during the first several years of the Bush Administration were-- you were sometimes left thunderstruck by the end of it. But, uh, to the defense of my colleagues in Washington, this has also been an administration that has taken a historic, first-ever attitude toward information. They don’t see the information they hold as public property, that they happen to hold as public servants. They see it as personal property, which is for them to hold onto, and for us to pull out of them, if we can.

MARIA:  Right. But if those reporters were really tough and trusting that instinct, what would happen? They’d be put at the back of the White House Press Briefing Room.

RAY:  They wouldn’t get to ask questions any more.

MARIA:  They would never get to ask questions. I mean, it’s kind of like you’re set up-- that if you’re a tough reporter, the way we’re supposed to be, you’re not going to go anywhere. And your career ends.

RAY:  Those reporters in that Press Room, Maria, are not independent contractors. They work inside organizations that are, today, just single profit-lines inside even much larger organizations. And you have to have the back. Your organization has to have your back, if you’re going to do that.

MARIA:  So do you think that the corporate media in America today has the backs of reporters who are willing to push and push hard?

RAY: I made a decision at a certain-- certain point in my career to get out of all of that, and to go work in public media, because I found that it was, uh, a better fit for me. I don’t know if I would have the support of my organization if I wanted to ask impertinent questions, and I was still working in-- in commercial media.

MARIA:  And so, you say that you’re not a cynic. But when you look at that, when you think about American media-- with a history, from Edward R. Murrow, of pushing. And then, you’ve got a kind of corporate media that’s saying, “Eh, don’t rock the boat”-- that doesn’t make you--

RAY:  I don’t think they’re saying, “Don’t rock the boat.” I think they’re-- they’re looking for openings. And, for the first of the two Bush Administrations, there were very few openings. They were riding high, everything was working well for them, the public was buying it. So, uh, like how do you get inside a bowling ball? There it is. It’s heavy, it’s dense, it’s impermeable, and you can’t see the inside of it. Well, they were a bowling ball for the first couple of years. Now there’s all kinds of cracks and fissures, and places to get in. And-- And now, we’re starting to see that.

MARIA:  So you’re hopeful? It’s not back-- It’s not where you’d like to see it;
 but--

RAY:  No, the business is not, um, corrupt and God-forsaken. And the people working in it are not moral cowards and morons, no. I-- I-- A lot of honest people are trying to do an honest job and still trying to stay employable, stay viable inside the business-- writ small in their organization, and also writ large inside the business itself.

MARIA:  Okay. And so--

RAY:  People sometimes exaggerate, uh, the-- the ease with which you can navigate those very challenging shoals, I think.

MARIA:  So Ray, there’s talk now, of even Public Television doing things in Spanish. I mean, when you think about the fact that, you know, you were growing up and watching these few Latino reporters on commercial news in-- in New York City; and now, perhaps-- I mean, you know, Univision, huge; Telemundo, huge. So, from a kind of personal place, this issue of more Spanish language media access-- good? Bad?

RAY:  It’s fabulous. I mean, think about television, and think about what’s on. It’s great that there are game shows and news and soap operas, and everything that’s on Spanish language television. If we think what we’re doing in Public Television is worthwhile and provides value to the public, and has an educative purpose, then we should want to be where part of our audience is, nationally, too, still getting their information in Spanish. So it will be great when we bring that product-- and I can watch it too-- bring that product with a Public Television point of view, and a Public Television way of doing TV, to Spanish-language viewers as well.

MARIA:  In fact, because there’s a history of, in Mexico and in other places of Latin America, where Public Television exists-- educational television exists-- at least, certainly, in Mexico; so people have this tradition.

RAY:  And also, we want to talk to kids, we want to talk to kids who are still Spanish dominant. We want to talk to young parents. There’s a great new frontier for Public Television, And it’s great to see that we’re not just sort of surrendering that audience and it’s needs to the commercial world. I’m really pretty excited about it/

MARIA: Everybody knows you as this very serious reporter. But I had asked you before-- Okay, so if all of a sudden, you became independently wealthy, and you didn’t have to work, and I said, “So what? Would you make movies?” And you said, “No, I might write.”
RAY:  I would write more books, because, um-- there are a lot of things going on in this country and in the world that you can’t necessarily get at, at a-- in a 2500-word magazine article, or a 1000-word newspaper piece, or even a ten-minute Public Television piece, or a five-minute Public Radio piece. There’s just-- There are arguments that the trajectory is so long, the arc of it is so long, that the book is the only form where you have a chance to develop it. I like that. Um, I realized, even when I was suffering-- and you’ve written books before, so you know how you suffer over certain chapters-- I thought, “This is really great. Even though it’s horrible, it’s great.”

MARIA:  It’s still pretty good.

RAY:  And I-- I can't-- I can’t explain it. And certainly, there’s that thrill when you see the first one that’s got a cover on it, and is in between the cardboard covers-- it is fabulous. And I-- I like to have that.

MARIA:  And-- And you like getting out there. You like getting out and pound-- You know, getting out-- I mean, the reporter in you, from Chicago, that was doing those-- covering the fire and the police beat, and all that kind of stuff-- do you still like being out on the road with the people?

RAY:  It’s nice. It’s nice, because also, you’re not encumbered by all that extra technology. You walk up to people--

MARIA:  Oh, I know that’s right.

RAY:  You say, “Hi. I am Ray Suarez, and I’m writing a book on blah-blah. Can I talk to you?” And, since you haven’t got three other people with lights and gizmos and all that, they always-- almost always say yes.

MARIA:  So when people-- When people always-- They always ask me, “So what do you like? Television? Radio?” And I’m like, “You know, each one has its moment. But-- But being able to be yourself, alone with a notebook, amazing-- amazing access.”

RAY:  And serendipity is allowed. When you’re working on deadline, serendipity is not allowed. You can’t just say, “Yeah, this is interesting. Let’s follow this thread to see where it goes.” You really-- You have to deliver by a certain time. This is your master, right here on your-- on your wrist. With a book, there are still deadlines, of course. But if somebody says something like, “Oh, my neighbor across the street-- a very interesting thing happened to them.” You think, “Let me walk across the street and see if they’re home.” There’s all this time to just explore and-- and get the real feel. By the time you’re sitting down at the keyboard, um, you-- you live this, you’re immersed in it in a way that you just can’t be with daily deadline reporting.

MARIA:  All right, so we’ll look forward to the next book. Thanks, Ray, for joining us.

RAY:  Great to be here, Maria.


END OF INTERVIEW