Legendary Activist Dolores Huerta

>> HINOJOSA: Remember the

boycott of grapes during the

1970s?

Our guest today was behind it

all.

With Cesar Chavez, she

raised national awareness of the

dismal treatment of farm

workers, and founded the United

Farm Workers Union.

Legendary labor and civil rights

advocate Dolores Huerta.

I'm Maria Hinojosa.

This is One on One.

Captioned by

Media Access Group at WGBH

access.wgbh.org

>> HINOJOSA: Dolores Huerta, you

are an icon in the Latino

community, the cofounder of the

United Farm Workers Union.

You have your own foundation

now, the Dolores Huerta

Foundation.

It's truly an honor to have you

on our show.

>> HUERTA: Well, thank you, Maria.

It's an honor to be here.

>> HINOJOSA: So a lot of people

probably may not immediately

know your name.

But if you say United Farm

Workers, if you say Cesar

Chavez, if you say the grape

boycott of the 1970s, then

people kind of start piecing it

together.

But you are an extraordinary

leader in your own right,

Dolores.

And I kind of wonder, how do you

put that into place, where on

the one hand you were side by

side this amazing leader, Cesar

Chavez, and yet you were a

leader onto yourself, but always

a little bit behind the scenes.

>> HUERTA: I think we did different

tasks.

I mean, I was pretty visible,

actually.

Maybe not in the media, but--

excuse me-- I was in charge of

negotiations, I ran the picket

lines, I was the political

director of the Farm Worker's

Union, and I also directed the

grape boycott on the East Coast.

And then after we cleaned up all

the stores on the East Coast, I

went back to California and did

the same thing on the West

Coast.

So in many circles I was a very

visible person.

>> HINOJOSA: You were incredibly

visible in terms of the workers

themselves, too.

I mean, you had such a close

relationship with these farm

workers.

They saw Cesar as a leader, but

they had a very direct

relationship with you.

>> HUERTA: Yes, they did.

And one of the reasons is

because as a founder of the

union with Cesar Chavez, I was

in on the ground floor, again as

a negotiator with the contracts.

I had my negotiating committees.

And so people were used to

seeing me in a leadership role.

>> HINOJOSA: What was it that

made you decide in the 1960s...

what year was the United Farm

Workers created?

>> HUERTA: We started in 1962.

>> HINOJOSA: 1962.

So this was a very different

time.

And what made you at that moment

just say, "You know what?

I'm going to give up any

professional dreams"-- that you

may have had-- "and I'm going to

work to organize farm workers,

the most invisible workers in

the United States"?

What made you decide to do that?

>> HUERTA: Well, it was a natural

outgrowth from the Community

Service Organization, which is

the organization that both Cesar

and I came out of.

And we had been doing a lot of

work with farm workers before

that.

And we actually started the

union because the Community

Service Organization did not

support our project to organize

farm workers.

And so I left, and Cesar left

CSO to start the union.

So it's something that we had

already been doing, but then at

some point then... and Cesar

said, "Farm workers will never

have an organization unless you

and I do it."

And then he said in the next

breath, "But they will not have

a national union in our

lifetime, because the growers

are too rich, they're too

powerful, and they're too

racist."

>> HINOJOSA: But in the end you

ended up creating a union.

>> HUERTA: Well, yes, but not a national

union, right?

Not throughout the United States

of America.

So we don't have a union in the

Midwest or in the South or...

you know, it's only at this

point in time only in California

for the United Farm Workers.

But there are other

organizations, like there's

PICUN up in Oregon, there's the

farm workers down in Miami,

there's another group, I think,

in New York City.

And so... and FLOC in the

Midwest, in Ohio.

So there are, you know, separate

groups.

But I think about all of these

organizations, and probably the

one that had the strongest

contracts, the strongest

benefits for farm workers are

the United Farm Workers.

>> HINOJOSA: Most people know

the United Farm Workers.

Most people know Cesar Chavez.

And one of the things that you

and I were talking about before

we started was that you actually

think it's important to talk

about your relationship with

Cesar Chavez, to talk about what

we as Americans can learn about

the experience of organizing and

creating a labor movement.

So what are the lessons that we

need to learn from Cesar Chavez

and you, Dolores Huerta, about

creating essentially something

from nothing?

>> HUERTA: And I have to throw in

another name here, because it

would be wrong if I didn't, and

that was a man named Fred Ross,

Sr.

Because this is the man that got

both Cesar and myself into

organizing.

He's the one that organized the

Community Service Organization.

And he also, by the way-- I'm

not going to go through his

whole history, because it would

take up our whole time here--

but he is also the man who

organized the people down in

Orange County that filed the

lawsuit on Mendez vs.

Westminster, to segregate the

schools in Orange County, when

they had the Mexican children in

some schools and the Anglo

children in another school.

And so this is a gentleman that

really taught Cesar and myself

how to organize.

And to this day I use his method

in my current work that I'm

doing with the Dolores Huerta

Foundation.

But I want to describe it very

simply if I can.

And basically, the type of

organizing that I do and we did

when we organized the union was

to get small groups of people

together, having them meeting in

their homes, having them do the

invitations, and then we would

talk to them about how they have

power.

And when you think about farm

workers, that they were

immigrants, many don't speak

English, they don't have any

assets, they don't have any

money.

And yet we have to convince them

that they have power.

And when they would ask,

"Where's the power," we would

say, "It's in your person.

You have power in your person.

But you have to come together

with other people, with other

workers, and you have to take

action.

Because then you can change your

situation.

And nobody's going to do it for

you.

You're the only ones that can do

it.

You're the only ones that can

change the kind of circumstances

that you live in."

And once the people understood

that, and they understood that

they had to work with other

workers, they had to... in other

words, they had to form an

organization to make things

happen.

>> HINOJOSA: But there was a

tremendous amount of sacrifice

and blood, sweat, and tears and

years that went into creating

the United Farm Workers.

It was not something that

happened in the sense of

creating a real base.

>> HUERTA: People think about this big

strike that we had in 1965, the

historic Grape Strike, when all

of the farm workers went out on

strike.

It didn't just happen.

We had been organizing in the

San Joaquin Valley for three

years.

From 1962 to 1965 we had been

organizing the workers in these

small meetings in their homes.

And you know, it takes time, it

takes patience, but once the

people understand that they can

make something happen, they do.

And it wasn't just a strike.

It was, you know, the marches to

Sacramento to get legislation

passed.

It was farm workers going out to

the cities to convince people

not to buy grapes.

So at the end of the day you

had, like, 17 million Americans

that stopped eating grapes.

But it was the farm workers that

went out there to the cities, to

the churches, to the labor

unions, to the universities, to

ask people to support them.

In other words, they were using

their personal power.

>> HINOJOSA: How did you...

because I think back about

growing up in the 1970s, and

I've asked people who were, you

know, growing up in that time.

And many people said, you know,

when I asked, "Do you remember

the grape boycott," they're

like, "The grape boycott?

Of course.

I stopped eating grapes."

There was something about this

boycott led by you and the

United Farm Workers under Cesar

Chavez that got into the

American popular psyche.

The culture of America was at

that point "Don't eat grapes,

because the workers are being

treated bad."

Has there been something similar

at that same level?

Because that was extraordinary,

and you were so much behind the

organizing of it.

An incredible achievement.

But has there been anything else

that you say, "Wow, this also

was as effective as the grape

boycott?"

>> HUERTA: Well, I think that there have

been many movements.

The Civil Rights Movement, for

instance, you know?

And again, it came from the

bottom.

When you think of the Women's

Movement, getting women the

right to vote, it came from the

bottom.

So all of these movements are

the ones... the Workers

Movement, you know, to create

labor unions, came from the

bottom.

And once people understand...

because basically people in the

United States have very good

hearts.

And they always want to do the

right thing, and they want to do

the fair thing.

But if they don't know, then

it's very hard for them to

participate.

So basically, as an organizer,

what you have to do is you have

to break it down into a message.

Once people understood the kind

of conditions the farm workers

were living under, you know,

that they didn't have drinking

water in the fields, or toilets

for the women, or for anybody in

the fields, you know, rest

periods, and that they were

being brutalized, then people

wanted to help.

But it's got to come from the

people first.

It had to come from the farm

workers so that people could

understand.

And I think that that's the big

secret of organizing, is that

people have to be able to get

that message, and then figure

out a way that people can help,

that it makes it easy for them

to participate.

>> HINOJOSA: So what were the

debates like between you and

Cesar Chavez?

I mean, obviously people are

like, "Oh, my gosh, you have

these two incredible leaders,

Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta,"

you know, it could have easily

just... sparks could have flown,

you guys could have just ended

up going your separate ways.

What was the nature of the

debate, the dialogue, that

allowed you to remain leaders in

this amazing movement?

>> HUERTA: Well, I think first of all we

both had the same dream, you

know, the same purpose of

getting the farm workers

unionized, getting the farm

workers organized so that they

could change the laws that they

needed, like, to get

unemployment insurance, which

they never had in California, to

get the right to organize.

So, you know, we were very

driven to get them the kind of

benefits that we got, like

medical benefits and all these

other things.

So when we would have our

differences... and I love to

explain that.

We can use the grape boycott as

a really good example of that.

I mentioned that I organized the

boycott on the East Coast.

>> HINOJOSA: Yeah, you actually

moved out to New York for four

years.

>> HUERTA: Right.

And actually, you know, went out

there and got people to picket

the stores so that they would

then take off the grapes and

whatever.

And the tactics that we used...

I started with the small

independents.

I started with the small

independent stores and got them

cleaned up.

Then we went to the middle sized

stores.

And then finally the large

chains.

And so we were able to get the

East Coast cleaned up out of

grapes while Cesar was directing

the boycott on the West Coast.

And guess what they did-- they

went after the biggest chain.

So while we were able to clean

up the East Coast of grapes, in

the West Coast, in California,

they were still battling

Safeway, right?

And so then I went out to

California, and then I did the

same tactic-- start with the

small chains.

And you know what I call that,

Maria?

It's the difference between the

way a woman thinks and the way a

man thinks, right?

>> HINOJOSA: Because...

>> HUERTA: Well, because, you know, if

it's a macho thing, you want

take on the biggest one first,

okay, and get them down.

It's sort of the domino theory,

right?

And instead we did it just the

other way.

We started with the smallest

stores and worked our way up.

And so a lot of the differences

in tactics that Cesar and I had

were kind of on those same

lines.

>> HINOJOSA: You actually...

when you first met Cesar Chavez,

it's not like you were

completely floored by him.

>> HUERTA: Yes, Cesar was a very quiet

person.

I mean, people think of him as a

charismatic leader, but his

strength is sort of an inner

strength.

It's... I might compare it to

something like the Dalai Lama,

you know what I mean?

You sense this inner wisdom, you

sense this inner strength.

He's got sort of a quiet... he

was not a bombastic speaker.

He told his story in very soft

tones and very quiet tones.

But the thing is Cesar had

strength.

He was just so strong and so

determined and so willing to

sacrifice, you know, with all of

the fasts that he did, his 25

day fast, and the last one for

36 days because of pesticides.

And so when you met Cesar right

away you sensed this inner

strength.

But he was not, like, this, you

know, huge, charismatic kind of

a person, you know?

>> HINOJOSA: So when you think

about tactics, the tactics that

you used... you know, again, if

you want to study them, they're

amazing, right?

Organizing, grassroots

organizing, boycotting,

nonviolence, strikes, fasting.

Put that into the context of our

modern America.

Do these kinds of organizing

tools still work?

>> HUERTA: Oh, absolutely.

They absolutely do work.

But I think people have to have

faith that they will work.

And especially when you use any

of the nonviolent tactics.

Because what you do is the

people that are engaged in

nonviolence, they really grow.

And leadership is a process, you

know?

People talk a lot about

leadership, but we always have

to remember that leadership

cannot be taught, it can only be

learned.

And it can only be learned by

people that are actually going

through the process of doing the

things that you need to do to

make something happen.

You know, learning how to do...

and I... well, the marches are

important, but then you do the

leafleting, the telephone calls,

you know, meeting with people,

explaining to them, winning them

over to your side.

And the process of when people

actually do that, this is how

they become leaders.

And the nonviolent tactics are

very, very important to make

this happen.

>> HINOJOSA: You know as a woman

that women, in terms of the

issue of leadership ,often have

a hard time.

And you became... a part of who

you ultimately became as a

political being was a feminist,

an outspoken feminist.

What do you think about the fact

that women oftentimes have this

issue around, "Well, what, you

want me to be the leader," you

know?

"You want me to speak up?"

I mean, they'll do it when

there's action to be done.

But women actually assuming

leadership and power, I mean,

this seems like something for

you was not such an issue.

>> HUERTA: Well, I think I was raised by

my mother, first of all, so I

always saw women in leadership.

>> HINOJOSA: And your mother was

one tough cookie.

>> HUERTA: Well, actually, she was a

very gentle woman-- never swore.

>> HINOJOSA: But she wouldn't

put up with a lot from men.

>> HUERTA: That's true, that's true.

And she was an entrepreneur.

She was a businesswoman.

She was always out there doing

things.

And women, you know, in our

society, we're raised to be

victims.

Because when we think of the

animal kingdom, and we think,

who are the strongest among the

animal kingdom, is it the male

species or the women?

It's always the female species,

right?

They're the strongest because

they have to take care of the

babies.

But in our society, we are

taught from the time we're

little girls, "Somebody's going

to protect you, somebody's going

to support you," you know?

If we can change the way that

our society raises women, then

women know that they can be in

the spotlight, and they can be

the vanguard, and they can be

out there in front of everybody

else.

But it's going to take changing

the way that we educate our

women not to be victims.

>> HINOJOSA: I still find it

fascinating, though, because

again, this was the 1950s,

1960s, 1970s.

And for you, you were the head

negotiator, representing the

union, the workers, negotiating

with these farm owners, powerful

men.

And there you were negotiating.

And you're known as a very tough

negotiator.

So where did you get that,

again, as a woman born in New

Mexico, from not a wealthy

family?

You know, to be able to sit at

that negotiating table and to

make demands-- where did you

find that kind of power to do

that?

>> HUERTA: Well, basically because you

knew that you were representing

the workers, and that whatever

you decided at that negotiating

table was going to affect my

committee, you know?

They're the ones that gave me

the proposals.

I sort of represented them.

But knowing that whatever we

decided to on wages was going to

be their take-home pay, whatever

we negotiated in working

conditions was going to affect

them when they were out there in

those vineyards or in those

lettuce fields or in those

citrus fields.

So, you know, you were doing it

for them.

And I think that that's what

kind of gives you the power.

Because when you're doing

something for other people and

trying to help other people,

then it gives you kind of the

motivation and the energy that

you need.

I think the struggle gives you

energy.

>> HINOJOSA: There are a lot of

women who look up to you-- women

across the board.

Latinas very specifically look

up to you as an icon, as a role

model.

I mean, I look up to you.

You're 80 years old, you look

amazing, you took a redeye, here

you are doing what you have to

do.

But there is one thing in your

life story, and you have an

amazing life story, and every

time I see you I think I always

say to you, "Wow, Dolores, and

you actually had 11 children

along with it."

You didn't spend a lot of time

with those 11 children, though.

>> HUERTA: No, I didn't.

And of course that's one of the

things that I think all of us

who are active women, and we

don't spend as much time with

our children as we should...

>> HINOJOSA: How do you manage

that?

How did you... the guilt, the...

you know, I mean, did your kids

come back to you and say, "Mom,

how come you weren't there,"

and... how did you manage that

as a mom?

>> HUERTA: Well, my children kind of

grew up in the movement, so

they've sort of... the type of

experiences that they had are

experiences they never could

have had in a traditional kind

of a family.

Some of them went to jail with

me, actually.

You know, some were arrested.

And they traveled all over the

country and had all these

amazing, amazing experiences,

which I think really...

>> HINOJOSA: And did they... but

(speaking Spanish), did they

say, "Mom, don't go to that

meeting, Mom, don't go to that

protest, Mom, I'm tired of you

supporting Cesar Chavez on his

hunger strikes"?

Did they say that to you, your

kids, or...

>> HUERTA: Well, actually they were with

me in the marches, and, you

know, in the boycotts.

So they were part of the

movement.

They were really part of the

movement.

And, you know, I regret I wasn't

able to give them what I had.

I had a nice middle class

upbringing.

I had the dancing lessons and

the music lessons and, you know,

the nice clothes, and all the

stuff that my children didn't

have.

That's the one thing I really

regret.

But they've grown up very

strong.

My oldest son's a doctor, my

second son's an attorney.

I have a son who's a chef, a

daughter who's an emergency room

nurse, a daughter who's a

filmmaker, a daughter who's a

teacher.

And so they've all... and I have

a son who's a poet, you know?

But, you know, they've all grown

up very, very healthy, you know?

I have one daughter, my oldest

daughter, who is ill.

She's schizophrenic, okay?

But the rest of them, out of the

11, they came out pretty good.

>> HINOJOSA: And I love the fact

that you're so open about these

things, Dolores.

You talk about the fact that you

have a daughter who's

schizophrenic.

So mental illness is something

that is right there for you.

You talk about the fact that

sexuality, gay and lesbian

rights, are very important,

because of members of your own

family.

We have a saying in Spanish,

(speaking Spanish)-- "She

doesn't have hairs on her

tongue," which means that you

speak the truth.

Is that also part of, kind of,

your core being, that you're not

afraid to take on these issues

that may be taboo, that we're

not supposed to talk about?

>> HUERTA: Well, I think that when

you're trying again to work for

social justice... and so we have

to educate.

And sometimes that education may

be uncomfortable for people to

hear.

Say women's right to choose, for

instance.

Even though I have 11 children,

I believe that women have the

right to decide for themselves

how many children they want to

have.

In terms of the LGBT issues, you

know, I like to always quote

Benito Juarez when he says,

(speaking Spanish)-- "We have

to respect other people's

rights."

And if people are gay or

lesbian, I mean, that is their

right.

It doesn't affect your family at

all.

So why do we want to

discriminate against people

because they have a different

sexual orientation?

In fact, people get killed

because they happen to be gay or

lesbian.

And that is wrong.

And I think for women, just in

general, when we talk about

women feeling intimidated, and

they feel like if they speak up

they're going to be criticized,

hey, that's okay.

It's important that we speak up,

even if we do get that criticism

from other people.

We have to consider that it's

like a blessing.

If you feel like you're doing

the right thing and you're

standing up for other people's

rights, then if people criticize

you... well, even like myself,

when you talk about my children,

a lot of criticism, because I

wasn't the mother that I should

have been to my kids in terms of

giving them as much time, and

dragging them all over the

country, and living in this

terrible extreme poverty that we

lived in.

But, you know, it built a lot of

character for them.

And you have to be willing to

take those criticisms.

It's like, I guess, in the book

about... the story of...

>> HINOJOSA: Don Juan?

>> HUERTA: Don Juan.

When they said, "Once you become

a warrior, you have to expect

that the arrows are going to be

shot at you," you know?

>> HINOJOSA: And so I recently

saw you at an event.

It was in Washington, DC.

There were a lot of politicians

there.

And Senator John McCain was

there.

And I remember I walked up to

you and I said, "So, Dolores,

did you see Senator McCain?"

And you said, "Oh, yes.

He came up to me to say hello."

And you said to me that you

looked Senator McCain straight

in the eyes and said, "I am very

disappointed with you, Senator,"

and that he then turned around

and said to you...

>> HUERTA: "I'm disappointed in you."

>> HINOJOSA: And then you just

kind of looked at each other,

you didn't extend a hand, you

didn't... I mean, what... that

takes a lot of chutzpah, right,

to stand up for you and look

straight ahead at a Senator like

John McCain and say, "I am

disappointed in you."

>> HUERTA: Well, I think that one thing

we forget, and this is one thing

that we teach all of our people

when we organize, politicians

work for us.

We do not work for them.

We pay taxes, we pay their

salaries, we have to make

demands on them.

And when they are not doing the

right thing, we have to call it

to their attention, right?

I mean, and if people can

remember that... because I think

one of the things that we're

missing in our democratic

process is that yes, we want

people to vote, but it's not

enough to vote.

We have to advocate, we have to

stay on top of these people.

Because what happens is every

politician gets a lot of

pressure from the corporate

world.

I mean, they have their

full-time paid lobbyists,

they're right there in

Washington, DC, or they're in

their home districts, whatever,

always putting pressure on them.

And we, the ordinary taxpayer

and the ordinary voter, we

think, "Okay, I'm going to vote,

and I'm going to, you know, just

expect that so-and-so's going to

do the right thing."

It doesn't happen that way.

We have got to be... our

numbers... you know, we have got

to be on top of our legislators,

whether they're state

legislators or congressional

people, and stay on top of them

so that they can do the right

thing.

We saw that in the health care

bill.

You know, people that wanted,

like ourselves, a public option,

we didn't get it.

But then when we think, what

were people doing?

Were they contacting their

legislators, were they sending

them emails, or sending them,

you know... on the telephone, or

going to their offices to visit

them?

We have got to be on top of our

representatives.

>> HINOJOSA: It's as if you,

with your 80 years of life and

your 60-something years involved

in the movement, it's as if you

as an American citizen really

believe that at its core

American democracy means

involvement.

>> HUERTA: Absolutely, absolutely.

And especially now when we have

a Supreme Court decision that

says that corporations can spend

an unlimited amount of money on

independent campaigns for

candidates.

Oh, my goodness.

We have to remember that the

votes are the ones that really

count at the end.

>> HINOJOSA: But when people

feel so powerless... and you

know, Dolores, that in these

moments of so much turmoil,

people can just feel completely

powerless, and they're like,

"Look," you know, "why am I even

going to, you know, call my

local representative," or, "Why

am I even going to go to the

polls," you say what about those

people who just feel despair in

terms of being... feeling

represented in our democracy?

What do you say to that?

>> HUERTA: Well, your vote is important.

You are important.

It's important that you get out

there, that you call that

representative, that you get

your friends to do it.

You know, get a few people

together and just go down to

that congressman or that state

legislator's office and pound

the table.

I think we've seen an example...

maybe this is not a good

example, but the Tea Party

movement, okay?

I mean, this is what they're

doing, basically.

I may not agree with them on

their values, or maybe even on

their tactics, but the thing is

that they are coming together

and they're putting the

pressure.

And that's what we as ordinary

citizens have to do.

Because as I said before, the

people in our United States of

America are fair-minded people.

And they want to do the right

thing, but sometimes they don't

have the right information, and

they don't know what to do.

It's our duty, actually.

It's our civic duty.

And I feel it so strongly,

because I do believe in

democracy, I do believe that we

can change the laws like we did

for the farm workers, right, to

get them that cold drinking

water and those rest periods,

and get some of the pesticides

off of our food, you know?

And for women to get the right

to vote, and get women elected,

you know, to office.

All these things.

But we have to do it.

If we can just remember that,

that if we don't do it, it's not

going to happen.

We have a responsibility.

>> HINOJOSA: Dolores Huerta,

thank you for all of the work

that you've done on behalf of so

many working Americans.

We really appreciate it, and

it's been an honor to have you

on the show.

>> HUERTA: Thank you very much.

Continue the conversation at

wgbh.org/oneonone.