Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: As the first Latino
elected to the Massachusetts
State Legislature, he fought for
affordable housing, public
safety, and environmental
justice.
Today he's taking on the media
and its protrayal of gay
America.
President of the Gay and Lesbian
Alliance Against Defamation
Jarrett Barrios.
I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This is One on One.
So Jarrett Barrios, welcome to
our show.
>> BARRIOS: Thank you for having me.
>> HINOJOSA: You are the
youngest ever and the first
Latino to head the Gay and
Lesbian Alliance Against
Defamation, GLAAD.
>> BARRIOS: GLAAD.
>> HINOJOSA: GLAAD.
Now, a lot of people might know
what GLAAD is, but there might
be a lot of people who also
don't know.
So what is it that GLAAD does?
>> BARRIOS: We are an organization that
works for the full equality of
gay, lesbian, bisexual,
transgender people.
We believe in all of us,
including gay folks, being
accepted, respected, and valued,
but understand that there's a
lot of discrimination, there's a
lot of homophobia out there in
politics, but also in culture,
in life.
And to really move ahead towards
full equality, the belief of
GLAAD is that we have to impact
the culture, the culture change,
change people's hearts and
minds.
So what we don't do... you won't
find us in Washington, DC
lobbying on a bill.
We don't have lawyers in court.
What we do do is we work through
the media to get the stories of
lesbians and gay people out, gay
and bisexual and transgender
people out, so that the public
can see.
And we believe with the public
seeing the stories,
understanding the storylines,
the words, the images, people
will conclude that gay folks
should be respected and accepted
like everybody else-- that we
advance our equality by telling
our stories.
>> BARRIOS: Well, do you feel that right
now in America that... I mean,
where are we?
In a lot of ways, people feel
like everywhere you turn, in
your neighborhood, wherever
you may be living, there's going
to be a gay couple.
Or maybe a gay single person.
You know, you turn on the
television, and you see, you
know, regular looking folks who
are gay.
But then you also hear, or maybe
you don't hear enough about, the
hate attacks, the kind of threat
of violence that gay folks live
under.
So where are we, really, on the
spectrum?
>> BARRIOS: We have... GLAAD studies
justice questions, or where is
America going?
And we have something called the
Pulse of Equality poll.
And we've seen that in the last
five years America has... about
20% of Americans, one in five
voters, have become more
accepting of lesbian, gay,
bisexual, and transgender
people.
And by accepting I mean some of
them may have been very, very
anti gay, and now are more fair
minded on it, but maybe, you
know, not necessarily supportive
of equal marriage protections
for gay people.
But some of them might have been
somewhere in the middle, and
have come even closer.
And the reasons for this are
many.
The most impactful way to help
America understand, as you say,
is knowing somebody.
You sort of imply, "Well,
everybody knows somebody."
Actually, not everybody.
About 75% of Americans know
somebody who's gay or lesbian,
bisexual or transgender.
However, knowing them, very
impactful, but isn't as
impactful if the folks who are
gay don't actually talk about
it.
And so being out... being out,
and in particular being out and
talking about the ways in which
you're less equal.
About 70% of America thinks it's
illegal to fire somebody in the
workplace because they're gay,
but it's only illegal in 21
states.
29 states you can get fired.
If America would understand
that...
>> HINOJOSA: So let's just be
clear, just so we can make it
clear.
So that means that, for example,
I'm your boss, and in 29 states,
I suddenly say, "You know what?
I don't like the fact that
Jarrett made a nice compliment
to a fellow coworker who's a
man.
Therefore I can fire Jarrett"?
>> BARRIOS: Well, that can be sexual
harassment, so let's be clear
about that.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay.
But I don't like the fact
that...
>> BARRIOS: You don't like the fact that
I've got a picture of a guy on
my desk who happens to be the
person I'm in a committed
lifetime relationship with, you
can say, "I don't like the fact
that that's who your husband is.
I'm firing you."
>> HINOJOSA: And it's legal?
>> BARRIOS: And it's legal in 29 states.
In 29 states.
Now, most Americans think it's
illegal.
So when I talk about the
importance of people telling
their stories, people don't like
that.
Americans are fair minded.
They don't like the fact that
that's okay.
But if they don't know that it's
illegal, they don't get moved to
support this type of equality.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, so what is
the point at which... because
you mentioned gay marriage as
kind of one of the issues.
So are you saying that in order
for us as Americans to be
completely kind of gay and
lesbian accepting that everybody
has to be on the same page in
terms of same sex marriage?
>> BARRIOS: I don't think Americans are
on the same page about anything.
We're all over the map.
But on the issue of providing
the same basic protections to
gay couples that heterosexual
couples have, at the end of the
day marriage is about love and
respect and commitment.
>> BARRIOS: But it's also about a lot of
paperwork and legal issues and,
you know...
>> BARRIOS: Precisely.
And that's where the protection
piece comes in.
It's how people take care of one
another.
And that's why the legal rights
are important.
And so when we talk about
marriage, at least from my
perspective, it's really
important to tell the story of
why it is folks want to get
married.
It isn't about some abstract
concept.
It's because people who have
decided to spend the rest of
their lives together, often when
there are children involved,
need those protections to take
care of each other.
To honor one another, but also
respect and protect each other.
>> HINOJOSA: So do we have any
folks... let's say in the media.
Is there a couple, a gay married
couple that we can kind of look
and say, "Oh, look, they're the
Ozzie and Harriet of gay
America," or that just does not
exist?
>> BARRIOS: Well, there are openly gay
and lesbian people, and this is
actually a very important point,
and part of GLAAD's work.
We want to promote images of
folks who are gay, tell their
stories, whether through
entertainment, like the
television show Glee, in that
narrative, very important.
>> HINOJOSA: Let's stop with
Glee for a second.
From your perspective, as
somebody who's watching the
media and its treatment of gay
and lesbian youth, what's so
unique about what Glee is doing?
>> BARRIOS: Well, I got into a debate
with a Newsweek reporter
recently about this.
He thought that the show was bad
for a gay folks.
And he thought because the young
man, the boy who likes to sing
sometimes, you know, female
roles, right, he's a very
talented singer, that that was a
bad stereotype.
I look at that, and I think the
interplay between the boy, who
has come out as gay on the
show... and it started out he
hadn't told his family or
anybody, and now he has.
And the way in which the father
kind of deals with it.
At first, you know, he was sort
of trying to push his son into
sports and things, and over time
the son comes out, and the
father accepts him.
What a wonderful thing for
America to see.
>> HINOJOSA: Especially because
the dad is kind of like a
working class dad.
I think he's, like, a mechanic
or something.
>> BARRIOS: Exactly.
>> HINOJOSA: And you don't
expect the dad to say, "Son,
it's okay, I know you're gay."
>> BARRIOS: And what is the lesson for
America?
That families that love each
other, that stick together, this
is the way you embrace your gay
children.
And there are many gay kids who
are not.
The rate of suicide among gay
teenagers is four times the rate
of heterosexual teenagers.
>> HINOJOSA: Which again...
>> BARRIOS: Very important.
And that's about self esteem and
acceptance.
>> HINOJOSA: So how can...
>> BARRIOS: What parents do.
>> HINOJOSA: Right.
But how can we have these two
things going on at the same
time, where at the same time
you've got Ellen Degeneres, you
know, who's got a show, who's a
huge star.
>> BARRIOS: Now a judge on American Idol.
>> HINOJOSA: And now a judge on
American Idol.
But you still have got teenagers
in America feeling so lonely
that they're going to commit
suicide because they realize
that they're gay, that they're a
gay teenager in America.
>> BARRIOS: We're on a road.
We're on a road, Maria.
The road is towards... it's sort
of like that arc that Martin
Luther King mentioned in his
speeches, an arc that bends
towards justice.
Justice in this case for gay,
lesbian, bisexual, and
transgender people, that comes
out of people understanding who
we are, that we have our own
aspirations for ourselves and
our children.
My two sons, I dream about about
them going to college, and what
happens after college, and them
living independently.
But there are also challenges,
barriers that we face, right
now, quite particularly, the
discrimination that is so
rampant, and the violence--
bullying in schools, the kind
of violence that children face
day to day, particularly middle
school and high school.
What children face, which is
what causes these self esteem
issues, not just parents, but
what peers experience... sort of
force them to experience,
really, really important issues
to address.
But we are in a place where it's
being talked about.
There are role models.
There are openly gay people out
in the media, in entertainment,
in sports, in politics.
And those public people living
their lives are role models not
just for those kids, but for all
people.
There was a television show
that's called So You Think You
Can Dance.
Back in, I guess it was probably
the summer... May of '09, they
had a dance... a couple... and
this is... couples dance and
complete, kind of like American
Idol, what have you.
Nigel Lithgoe, the judge, said
something to... the couple
happened to be two men.
The first time they had two men
dancing.
And they were actually not a gay
couple.
One was a gay man, one was his
straight best friend.
And after the show, Nigel sort
of lectured them-- "You two
should be dancing with women."
And the message that sent to all
the gay kids out there was "It's
not okay to be who you are."
The message it sent to all the
straight kids out there was,
"You know, these kids who you
might know who you think are
gay, it's okay to pick on them.
It's okay to make fun of them.
Look what we just saw on
television."
>> HINOJOSA: But I'm going to
stop you, because somebody might
be watching and say, "Okay,
well, look, Jarrett, I'm
completely... I support gay
rights.
But you know, if I'm seeing a
couples dance, let's say a
waltz, and somebody says, 'You
know, I kind of want to see a
man dancing with a woman'..."
and then suddenly this person is
saying, "Wow, the fact that I
want to see a man dancing with a
woman doing a waltz makes me...
there's a problem with that?"
>> BARRIOS: No, it's about the messages
that come out of it, the media
messages.
And the way that was
communicated sent a message that
if you happen to be gay, or if
you happen to be in a position
where you're dancing, that
that's not as acceptable, it's
not as okay.
Kids who are coming out and see
that take a message from that
that isn't accepting.
You have your antennae out when
you're a young kind and you
haven't told your parents, you
haven't told your friends,
you're living by yourself,
wherever you are, Boise, Idaho,
Nashville, Tennessee, Tampa,
Florida, where I'm from, not New
York City, not Los Angeles, but
places where you don't have the
kind of support in your
community, all you've got is
yourself, and your ability to
decide whether or not you've got
a life in front of you, whether
there's a place for you to live
where you're going to be
accepted, where you can be
respected, not discriminated
against, safe, safe, physically
and emotionally safe, you take
cues from everywhere.
And so these messages that you
get from the media are very,
very important.
This is why GLAAD is something
of a media watchdog.
We want to make sure that the
messages aren't exclusionary,
that they embrace all of us.
And so if you're sending a
message about being gay or not,
that it be one that is a
positive one, and an inclusive
one.
Sure, it's okay to dance in a
straight couple, but there's a
way to express that which
doesn't say... doesn't have to
say that, you know, if you're
gay, you stink, right?
>> HINOJOSA: Interesting.
>> BARRIOS: And it's those gay kids that
we're so concerned about.
And young people are in
particular vulnerable, because
they don't have networks of
support that adult folks who've
come out that have their
professional relationship, that
have their families, do,
particulary adults in big
cities.
>> HINOJOSA: So let's take on an
issue that when you were coming
out as a young man was not
necessarily front and center in
terms of the community, the gay
community, and that's
transgendered folks.
I know that within the community
there's been a lot of discussion
about this.
And certainly America's kind of
trying to figure out, what are
we doing with this?
And we'll go back to popular
culture for a minute.
A show called America's Best
Dance Crew on MTV.
>> BARRIOS: Great.
My kids watch it.
>> HINOJOSA: I know this because
of my kids, I'm watching with my
kids, which is good, right?
Because it gives us a prism into
what's going on in terms of
popular culture for young
people.
>> BARRIOS: It's good to watch television
with your kids, Maria.
>> HINOJOSA: It's a good thing
to watch television.
>> BARRIOS: Good thing to know what
they're watching.
>> HINOJOSA: Though I tell them
all the time, "It's not really
reality, sweeties, it's not
really reality."
But on this show, you had a
transgendered kid performing in
a...
>> BARRIOS: A woman, a young transgender
woman, yes.
>> HINOJOSA: So he was a...
what's the...
>> BARRIOS: She.
She.
>> HINOJOSA: She.
But she used to be a he.
>> HINOJOSA: Yes.
>> BARRIOS: And we don't know in what
process, then... the reason why
I'm bringing this up is because
again, there might be really a
lot of really well-meaning folks
who just say, "I don't know what
to do with this."
>> BARRIOS: What I can tell you is this.
That transgender woman who
performed... young woman who
performed with her openly gay
friends in this dance crew, was
a good dancer, and they did
really well on that show.
And...
>> HINOJOSA: She definitely
owned it, for sure.
>> BARRIOS: She's... that's why they're
on that show, not to be judged
for something that shouldn't
matter.
What should matter is how she
dances.
That's what she's there for.
>> HINOJOSA: So you feel like
whenever we look through this
stuff that all of us are just
too obsessed about the fact
that...
>> BARRIOS: Her gender identity is
relevant to her, but shouldn't
matter to us insamuch as we
judge her on a show that she's
there to dance about.
In the same way that somebody's
sexual orientation or their race
or their religion or the color
of their skin or the color of
their eyes shouldn't matter.
>> HINOJOSA: But you feel as a
gay activist that essentially
you have to be kind of coming
down to this ground zero, which
is whatever it is, do not
discriminate against this
person.
>> HINOJOSA: Sexual orientation
and gender identity are aspects
of our lives.
But because of the way
Americans, some Americans, make
an issue of it, they become
barriers to our being able to
achieve the same things that
everybody else wants.
And at a very basic level, you
want to be able to live in your
neighborhood, have your kids go
to school, you want to be able
to live your life, you want to
be able to go to work and bring
home that paycheck and know that
your kids are going to have a
better life than you had because
you worked hard for them.
And that's okay unless and until
people intervene in that-- they
fire you from your job, they say
to you, "You can't have the
protections of marriage because
that would mean something to
us."
Marriage is a personal decision,
and shouldn't be debated in this
public way.
If two people love each other,
they should be able to take care
of each other with all the
rights and protections that
marriage affords them.
That's what, I think, most of us
want.
That's what full equality is.
I want to take a...
>> HINOJOSA: I know what story
you're going to tell me, because
this is exactly the question I
was going to ask you.
Because a lot of times, as you
said, you may have a gay
neighbor or a friend or a
coworker, but it doesn't mean
that that person is necessarily
telling you everything that's
going on in their life as a
result of being gay and perhaps
discriminated against.
You, because of your activism,
you talk about this.
You ended up dealing with a
regular kind of family issue
with your own son, who ends up
in the hospital, right?
>> BARRIOS: Right.
Well, I have a couple of stories
like that.
Yeah, actually, I can tell
you... I want to tell you... can
I tell you a different story?
I want to tell you story...
Nathaniel, my younger son, 13
now.
That was when he was very young.
When we was 12 last year, we
moved to a new neighborhood,
Jamaica Plain.
Jamaica Plain's a larger Latino
neighborhood.
A lot of Domenican kids, and I'm
Cuban.
>> HINOJOSA: This is in
Massachusetts, right?
>> BARRIOS: This is in Jamaica Plain,
Massachusetts.
And because of that, we have the
best little league in the city.
No, Hispanic kids are the best.
To make a perhaps an
overgeneralization.
But we had the best little
league in the city.
Nathaniel tried out for his
baseball team, and made one of
the teams.
Very excited.
Comes home from practice after
his first day talking all
about... again, new
neighborhood, trying to make new
friends, excited with all the
teammates.
He's going to be center field,
he says.
Comes home the second day, "Oh,
dad, I think I'm going to be
right field."
Very excited.
Comes home the third day and
he's in tears.
I said to myself, "What
happened?"
So I went to his room, wouldn't
talk to me about it, because he
was not supposed to be crying,
and he's a big boy.
Shuts his door, doesn't want to
talk about it.
So I called the coach.
The coach says to me, "I was
going to call you later about
this, Jarrett."
Apparently there were a couple
of kids who had played on the
team several years.
These kids knew each other very
well.
Nathaniel was at his third day
of practice, trying to make new
friends.
The other two kids were calling
each other gay.
Nathaniel doesn't know that as
an epithet, because in our house
that's not a bad word.
So he offered, "My two dads are
both gay."
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my gosh, your
son was trying to be helpful
here?
>> BARRIOS: He was trying to make
friends.
>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my gosh.
>> BARRIOS: And those kids started making
fun of him.
>> HINOJOSA: So he says, "I've
got two gay dads, let me help
you out"?
>> BARRIOS: No, no.
Well, they were like, "Oh,
you're both gay?
Yeah, my dad's gay."
Trying to make friends, start
conversation.
And they both started making fun
of him.
And that broke my heart.
And it broke my heart because of
what it said about them and
about us as a society, that all
we want... what we want is
nothing... I want to be able to
go watch my son play baseball.
He doesn't want to play baseball
anymore because of this.
And yes, it's the kids, but it's
not just the kids.
It's all of us, because we live
in a world where it's okay,
where we don't correct kids when
they say that, when we don't say
to kids, "All of us deserve to
be treated fairly."
>> HINOJOSA: But these are
parents who have kind of grown
up in an America where gayness
is out there.
I mean, I'm just wondering,
what's going on with the
parents?
Do they not hear, or is it that
the parents themselves are still
in that place where they're...
>> BARRIOS: This is... so when you asked
me the question earlier, what do
we have to do as parents, my
belief is... not just me, but
all of us.
It isn't about asking other
poeple why they're different.
It's about telling our own kids
how we, despite all of our
differences, we all want the
same things.
We want to be able to play
baseball, go watch our kid play
baseball.
You know, we want to be able to
go to work.
We want to be able to do things
and be successful as Americans
based on how hard we work, based
on our values, based on things
which should matter.
Not identities, not color of
skin, religions, things which
shouldn't figure into people's
calculus for how we are judged.
>> HINOJOSA: But at the same
time, when you're living in a
country where you're getting all
of these mixed messages, you
know, where, for example, the
Obama adminstration, let's say,
which was very open in terms of
gay rights, first time ever
that...
>> BARRIOS: Can I ask you a question?
I want to ask you a question.
What do you mean when you say
gay rights?
>> HINOJOSA: You know what?
That's a really good question.,
And I think that's...
>> BARRIOS: Is it a right you don't have,
Maria, as somebody who's a
heterosexual woman with kids?
I only want the same thing you
want.
I just want rights.
I want equal rights.
>> HINOJOSA: But that's what I'm
saying.
If you've got a president who
says that he believes....
>> BARRIOS: In equality in gay people,
the same treatment as everybody
else.
And by the way, I want the same
responsibilities, too.
I want the ability to pay my
taxes as a married person.
>> HINOJOSA: You also know that
the Obama administration, by
many folks in the community, the
gay community, was seen as,
"What's up, here?
You had made certain statements
in your campaign that made it
appear like you were going to
stand up for equal treatment of
gay and lesbians under the law."
>> BARRIOS: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: Has he delivered,
and what does it say to you that
a president like Barack Obama
maybe hasn't delivered?
>> BARRIOS: You know, I think that what
he feels and what he's been able
to get done are two different
things.
What a president campaigns on
and what they can actually
accomplish... obviously with
health care and a lot of other
things going around, it's not
quite... perhaps hasn't been
quite as easy.
We had a big victory, we being
not gay people but all of
America recently when the hate
crimes bill passed after ten
years.
>> HINOJOSA: Huge.
And just put it out there,
because I think that some
people... unless you're
following the issue of hate
crimes, you might have seen it
and not quite understood.
This was a battle that had gone
on for ten years to federalize a
crime against gays and lesbians.
>> BARRIOS: Or people based on race or
religion or any other group.
It used to be the case that if
you committed a crime on federal
land, or in a federal
jurisdiction, you could
prosecute somebody for a hate
crime, since the '60s, based on
race.
Those were usually voting rights
violations in the '60s.
Late '60s this law was passed.
It was... so the law was both
expanded to include a hate crime
against somebody who's gay,
lesbian, bisexual, or
transgender.
But it was also federalized so
that if there's a state... so if
you're in, I don't know,
Alabama, Mississippi, Puerto
Rico... there was a recent hate
crime in Puerto Rico, where it
doesn't look... didn't look like
the district attorney was going
to take it up as a hate crime.
And what is a hate crime?
A hate crime is when you commit
a crime against somebody, and
you use kind of language, racist
language, homophobic language,
which is evidence that you
didn't just kill the person, or
you didn't just rob the person,
or you didn't just maim the
person to do it, but you did it
because of that identity,
because of their race, because
of their religion, because of
their sexual orientation or
gender identity.
And that if you do that, it's
not just a crime against that
person.
It's a crime against a whole
community.
Because gay people, or African
Americans, or Latinos, or Jewish
people, you live in greater fear
knowing that that person doing
it for that reason might come
after somebody else.
So that the enhanced penalty,
the additional crime, time
tacked onto the sentence, is a
result of it being not just
against the person, but against
a community.
That's the idea of a hate crime.
So what the law did, they
federalized it and said, "Well,
if Mississippi, say, doesn't
want to prosecute it because
they don't see prosecuting a
murder of a gay person where
there's ample evidence that it
was because of their sexual
orientation, then the federal
government can step in."
So the US attorney from
Mississippi, who reports to the
US Attorney General, can take
that case on and prosecute it.
And that was the real impact,
saying that the United States
isn't going to mess around with
politics at the local level,
which sometimes is what happens
in these prosecutions.
People have to get elected as a
DA, they don't want to prosecute
it because, you know, "Oh, it
looks like they're supportive of
gay people."
This is about fairness.
And finally we have a law that
will allow people to protect in
a sort of negative rights way,
because it's prosecuting people
who have committed crimes, but
protect the dignity of a
community by making these go
forward, these prosecutions go
forward.
>> HINOJOSA: So what, in your
dream-o-vision, Jarrett, when
you say you want to reach the
hearts and minds of Americans,
how do you do that?
You said, "I want gay neighbors
to kind of not just..."
>> BARRIOS: Tell their stories.
Tell their stories to the
neighborhood.
You know...
>> HINOJOSA: How about if you're
not the gay neighbor, and you're
not sure what to ask your
neighbor, because you don't know
how to... what do you want them
to say, "Tell me about your
life, what's it like?"
Like, you know...
>> BARRIOS: This is the power of the
media, by the way.
Why shows like Glee are so
important.
Because what you do is you tell
that story through the media.
People are very comfortable
sitting in front of their
television watching it through
an entertainment venue, whether
it's, you know, a reality show
or a sitcom.
And it doesn't take away the
importance of gay folks coming
out and telling their stories
and living their lives.
And I think you realize that as
a gay person.
I realized it, amazingly, when
we finally had kids.
In some ways it's... you know,
because there you are, two dads
at the PTA meeting, right?
And, you know, this is who we
are.
And it wasn't like we weren't a
couple before, but you weren't
quite as public in places where
it sort of stood out.
>> HINOJOSA: And was it easy for
you?
>> BARRIOS: You know, it's sort of like
it's easy and it's sort of...
you sort of think about it in a
way that you didn't before.
But it's important.
And so even if it's not easy,
you've got to embrace it,
because it's important to get
past that.
>> HINOJOSA: This is your life,
right.
>> BARRIOS: And it's your kids' life.
And it's your neighbors' lives,
and it's all the other kids and
their parents in that
classroom's life.
And they need to see that, you
know, I'm here, I'm in this
classroom with my son for the
same reasons other parents are.
I want my son to succeed at his
school.
I want him to do his homework.
I also want to know, in my case,
is he wearing his uniform?
What are the uniform rules at a
parochial school?
What are, sort of, the rules of
the road here, so that I can
make sure he's meeting his end
of the bargain back at school?
That's no different than any
other parent.
>> HINOJOSA: All right, we've
got one minute left.
Tell me what your dream is for
what happens.
What's the place, what's the
nirvana, if there is one, where
gay and lesbian issues are no
longer an issue?
>> BARRIOS: It's when my son can play
baseball and tell his friends
that he's got two dads, and
nobody bats an eye.
That's when we've reached full
equality.
That's when we live in an
America where gay people can
live like anybody else.
>> HINOJOSA: So is that ten
years from now?
>> BARRIOS: If I had a crystal ball...
it's not yet, that's for sure.
And it depends on people telling
their stories, gay folks telling
their stories and America
understanding that we just want
acceptance, we want to be
respected, we want to be valued
for our contributions, and let's
put those stereotypes aside.
>> HINOJOSA: Jarrett Barrios,
thank you so much for joining
us, and for your good work.
>> HINOJOSA: Continue the
conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
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