Janet Murguia

HINOJOSA:  Janet Murguía, president and CEO of National Council of La Raza, thank you for joining us.

MURGUIA:  Thank you.

HINOJOSA:  A lot of people know, when you say NAACP, they know immediately what it is. You say NCLR, National Council of La Raza, people are, like, “Huh?”

MURGUIA:  We’re the largest Hispanic Latino Civil Rights organization in the country. And, in fact, next year, we celebrate our 40^th anniversary of existence in this country, opening up opportunities for Latinos, and hopefully creating access to that American dream. And that’s really the core of our mission.

HINOJOSA:  So why do you think people don’t know NCLR? I mean I was wondering, whose fault is it? Is it NCLR’s fault? Or is it the mainstream media’s fault?

MURGUIA::  Well, I think, you know, a lot of times, many Civil Rights organizations, many non-profit organizations, care so much just about doing the work, that sometimes, we forget to tell our own story. But it’s a great American story that we have to tell; because for 40 years, we’ve been creating opportunities for Latinos to succeed in education, and get more access to healthcare, to have access to workforce development skills, and to help create opportunities for homeownership, and helping them develop our neighborhoods and communities. So while we’ve been involved on the ground, across all the different states, in communities-- these community-based organizations that represent our affiliates, serving Latino families every day, we’ve also been in Washington, and really a voice of advocacy for the Latino community, advocating for policies that we know will advance the Latino community, and ultimately advance our country.

HINOJOSA:  And you, Janet, have been in Washington on and off for a long time.

MURGUIA:  Yes.

HINOJOSA:  You worked in the Clinton Administration.

MURGUIA:  That’s right.

HINOJOSA:  I want you to tell me, Washington under Clinton, Latino reality, versus now, these times. What’s different about how Latinos are perceived, and the kind of work that you have to do?

MURGUIA:  Well, look, you know, we had a lot of important issues during the Clinton Administration, that many Latinos were advancing. I mean there were education issues, there were a lot of budget-related issues, increasing funding for a number of different programs in the workforce area, and creating expansions in health. You know, we’re seeing a lot of issues that many Latinos continue to care about in those agendas. But what’s happening is they’re being sidetracked, because there’s an overarching issue that’s sucking all the oxygen out of the room. We’re not able to advance these issues in education and health, in homeownership, in workforce development, because this immigration issue is really an overarching issue, that is not allowing us to move forward this agenda, that reflects so many other issues.

HINOJOSA:  It’s as if there’s this incredible dichotomy, where you have Latinos, you know, the largest ever time that we are the largest minority in the United States, lots of power in Washington. And, at the same time, we’re facing the greatest challenge, the greatest anti-immigrant, anti-Latino sentiment. I mean that must-- For you, in Washington, how do you balance?

MURGUIA:  Yeah, well actually-- and I put it in the perspective and the context of how long NCLR has been in existence-- And I think about, you know, my predecessor, Raul Yzaguirre, who started as the first president of this organization. And back then, the Civil Rights focus was an important focus. But Raul and many in NCLR and our boards all supported creating opportunities. And that really, we saw, as an important balance to defending our community, but also opening doors for our community to advance. Well I thought that, by now, in this 21^st century, we’d really be all about the opportunities. And we want to be about the opportunities. But, unfortunately, because of this immigration debate, we find ourselves, in many respects, reverting back to having to defend our community against unthinkable claims and rhetoric.

HINOJOSA:  It’s amazing.

MURGUIA:  And I feel like, unfortunately, we’re losing ground. And it is very disconcerting. It shouldn’t be just disconcerting to me, but to so many who have appreciated the way that, I think, Hispanics and Latinos have been able to integrate and advance in this country.

HINOJOSA:  I’ll never forget, when I was actually covering a story for CNN, and NCLR was having one of their meetings someplace. And there was a group of protesters out, anti-undocumented immigrant protesters. And, you know, they were like “Well we’ve got to shut down NCLR!” And I thought “Wow, you know, I wish- I mean I bet NCLR wishes that they had all of that power that you are, in fact, saying that they have.” But the fact that you’re basically being protested, picketed, being targeted directly--

MURGUIA:  Well, when it’s by some of these folks who are really part of that extremist viewpoint in this country, and, in many respects, a very negative rhetorical viewpoint, you know, I see that criticism as a badge of honor. Because we are advocating, really, what should be considered a very-- you know, a centrist and broad agenda, that wouldn’t be just good for Hispanics in this country, but for everyone. You know, we’re advocating comprehensive immigration reform. We’re advocating for a reform that would be workable, sensible, practical and humane. And I think, in many respects, that should not alarm very many people. Unfortunately, some of those folks who are criticizing the anti-immigrant crowd, short of mass deportation, they think everything is amnesty, and everything would somehow open up our borders. We’ve got to find a solution that allows us to say, short of mass deportation, we can find an accommodation that allows us to deal with this problem in a practical, workable way, but that is consistent with America’s history as a nation of values and traditions, that have welcomed newcomers, and allowed them to achieve the American dream. So we’ve got to strike the right balance. But, unfortunately, those folks who are out there on the extremes, I think, are motivated by something else, other than a great sense of policy in how we can address this issue. I think it’s motivated by fear and the change that they see.

HINOJOSA:  And, would you say, and racism?

MURGUIA:  There may be--  I don’t want to say that.

HINOJOSA:  I know that’s hard, but--

MURGUIA:  Yeah, I think that there is an undercurrent of something very negative there. And maybe it’s a fear to a lot of the demographic change that they see there. We need to help them address those fears and do so in a commonsense way. But, unfortunately, that fear-- and maybe there’s deeper issues there-- doesn’t allow them to even engage in a sensible debate on this.

HINOJOSA:  So you, on the one hand, you’re taking on perspectives that are clearly anti-immigrant/anti-illegal alien activists, that they would call themselves. You also get a lot of criticism from the base, from Latino organizations that say “National Council of La Raza is taking too centrist of an approach. You don’t have enough ties to the progressive grassroots activism that wants”-- You know, I mean, some people would say NCLR should be front and center, saying “We will not stand for anything less than”-- etcetera, etcetera. A lot of people criticize the organization for being, in fact, too centrist, too conciliatory to the White House. And you say-- ?

MURGUIA:  I say I don’t agree with that. You know, we want to create solutions that are in the best interest of our Latino community. And there’s two approaches that you can take to that. You can be out in the streets every day and throwing rocks. And whoever feels that that’s an important role for them, that’s an important role for them. But to achieve change that can be the best kind of change for our community, we have to be able to engage in a dialogue. And we have to be at the table, in order to allow folks to understand, what are the issues of greatest importance? And, as they’re making these policy decisions, someone has to be there, helping to advocate for what’s in the best interests of the Hispanic community. What happens is that these types of discussions often involve some form of compromise. Now we’re never going to compromise on the principles that we think reflect the best interests of our community. But we have to be able to find a way to achieve a solution, and to get change that’s going to ultimately advance our community’s interest. And so it is a difficult position to be in. But I think, as long as we’re guided by what our values represent for this community, the values of the Latino community, and what we believe are in the best interests of the community, I think we can be a very positive advocate for change, for our community.

HINOJOSA:  But, you know, I mean you talk about compromise. You’ve been in Washington. You're considered-- I mean right now, NCLR is considered kind of an inside-the-beltway organization. You know, when people say that, when you first came into the position of president and CEO of NCLR, that you, essentially, wanted to create these lines of communication with the White House. Whereas, previously, Raul Yzaguirre was a little bit more, kind of, ready to take on battle with the White House and the administration. Now, how do you handle that? I mean you know that it’s clear that you have to be there. But there’s going to be that criticism that just says “NCLR has become too much of an inside-the-beltway organization.”

MURGUIA:  Well I don’t believe that’s true. You know, our network of affiliates, which is community-based organizations that serve Latino families and Latinos all over this country, we represent about 300 of these community-based organizations. And together, they serve about five million families, at a minimum, every day. We’re very much in touch with what’s happening at the community level, at the grassroots level. And we very much make sure that, as we move forward with our agendas in Washington, that they reflect what we believe is happening out there, in every neighborhood and every community. So, if we were just a Washington-based organization that didn’t have direct ties to community-based organizations and to families, I would say “Hey, maybe that criticism, there’s some value to it, there’s some validity to it.” But we work every day to make sure that we’re very much in touch and serving Hispanic families, Latino families, through these community-based organizations. And they’re in the trenches every day. So we feel very connected, and we have been very critical of Republicans and of Democrats. I think our role is to hold both parties accountable, and to challenge both parties. We need to reach out to both parties and engage both parties. But we have to be prepared for making strong statements for and against people who are in either party, when it’s in the interest of the Latino community to do so.

HINOJOSA:  So when you talk about, you know, people who are in the trenches, I mean you know right now that, at this point, you could get a knock at your door. Someone could come in without a warrant, they could take you and deport you immediately without a warrant. There would be some people who would say “Look, this is alarming what’s happening here. These are not just civil rights, these are human rights that are being violated.” And so, people say “We expect National Council of La Raza to be as alarmed, as urgent.” And some people will say “We don’t feel it from NCLR.”

MURGUIA:  Well that’s interesting, because, you know, I think we are known for many of the issues we’re able to bring to the forefront, with the data to support them. A lot of people can make a lot of claims. What I think distinguishes the role of NCLR in being a voice of credibility for our community, is that we back up our statements and our policy papers with data that can document why we’re asking for the change that we’re making and, in many respects, you know, make sure that it is validated. We are happy to make claims about issues when we can validate them. And I’ll just highlight. A recent widely acclaimed report that we brought out around the raids that occurred earlier this year in different cities, that separated children from their parents, and these children were American children. And the fact that, you know, everybody talked about the raids, but no one went further and deeper into it, to show what is the effect, not only on those children, but also on those communities.

HINOJOSA:  It was a devastating report.

MURGUIA:  Yes, absolutely. It showed what the real impact and the negative impact it left on American children who were left when their parents were taken away. And what the communities were saying, the communities were saying “This is not helping us.” And we need to make sure that, as we enforce our priorities, as enforcement is looked at, what are the best priorities for how we should be moving forward? And what’s the best way to enforce our laws? And this raised a larger discussion. So I would argue that, while we may not be on every picket line that’s out there across the country, we are front and center of the policymakers and the decision makers with, not only claims, but with the documentation and the analysis that backs it up, so that we can force, not only good conversation, but actual recommendations that will lead to change. And that’s the role that, I think, has given NCLR the credibility and the strength of that voice, that we represent for all of the Latino community in this country.  Another kind of controversial issue, Janet, do you believe that there is unfair targeting right now going on in Latino communities for military recruitment? Do you see it?

MURGUIA:  Well, you know, I think that we have heard about these claims. We’ve worked with different military officials. You know, they claim that they’re in an aggressive effort across the country for recruitment, because overall, they’re seeing their recruitment rates drop across the board. You know, I want to make sure that we can hold all of our institutions accountable, and that our young people are not vulnerable to what would be seen as unscrupulous retention activities. And we have engaged with the military on this, and just to check to see if there’s any validity. I know members of Congress have also been looking at this. So it is a matter of concern, and we do need to make sure we’re monitoring that. But I think the ability to engage directly with the military is something that we want to be able to pursue.

HINOJOSA:  But if you guys, if NCLR has a relationship with the Marines or the Army, I think, for example, when I go to the movies in my community, and I see, for example, these flicks that are basically “Go register,” you know, very high produced, you’ve got huge Humvees out there with big speakers saying “Come on in. We want to recruit you,” how hard is it for you, as NCLR, to take on the military, when you guys have a relationship? You get some money from U.S. Army, from the Marines.

MURGUIA:  If so, it’s nominal. But the reality is, is that we have never felt compromised in our ability to challenge institutions, individuals, and to make it very clear that we’re always going to be looking out for the best interests of the Latino community.

HINOJOSA:  But you don’t take-- For example, NCLR does not take a position, for example, on this war.

MURGUIA:  We’ve not. Largely, what we’ve focused, have been on certain areas of work. And I think those areas of work have reflected the greatest interest and needs for our Latino community. And that’s been education, health, economic empowerment, including asset-building, civil rights, workforce and community development and homeownership. In order to, I think, have the credibility that we wanted to have, and to be able to validate and document areas of change that we want to recommend, we have to have a footprint. And that requires us to remain focused in that area, so that we can really forward credible recommendations or make credible comments. We get out of that, we get out of our areas of expertise. And the reality is that we want to make sure we’re focusing on areas where we’ve gained that expertise, and make that kind of change.

HINOJOSA:  So what are you concerned about, in terms of when you look at a kind of anti-immigrant trend, essentially people saying things that, perhaps, before, would be unacceptable? Are you seeing a direct impact from the kind of environment we’re living in, to actual hate crimes?

MURGUIA:  Yes, we are seeing that. In fact, we’re seeing it in two key ways. We just have announced some reports that came out were recently released by the Department of Justice and the FBI. And these are very concerning to us. And it’s two points that they’ve made, that since 2000, right after 2000, when we saw this immigration start to take flight, of immigration and the intensity of debates start to rise, we’ve seen a rise in the number of hate groups that has grown in this country, by 40%.

HINOJOSA:  Wow, that means anti-immigrant groups are, essentially, recruiting, using this as a way to recruit and create new hate groups?

MURGUIA:  It seems that that report would definitely show that there’s been a rise in hate groups, by a number of 40%. But to go even further to your point is, since 2003, when we’ve seen the rhetoric particularly grow, in its terms of its extreme nature in vitriol, what we’ve seen, also, since 2003, that the number of hate crimes against Latinos has grown by 24%. So this isn’t, you know, a group that represents Hispanics, sort of making this up. We’re seeing documentation coming from the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, that is showing that the reality is, that there is some correlation between the extreme rhetoric that we’re hearing out there, and that’s being promoted out there by some of those folks on the fringes, and the direct correlation against discrimination and racial profiling against the Latino community.

HINOJOSA:  So again, this dichotomy, where, on the one hand, you know, more Latinos are being victims of hate crimes; on the other hand, you have Latinos who could, in fact, in some states, swing this upcoming presidential election.

MURGUIA:  Yes, I think, you know, people ask, now, what is the solution on immigration; what’s the solution on how we’re going to get past this issue. And I think our view is that we’re no longer in a policy debate. You know, it’s not like there’s opportunities any more, in this year or in next year, as we look at what’s happening, to engage in a policy solution right now. It seems like every force is retreated on this. And, what we need, now, is for people to weigh in on the direction of this country.

HINOJOSA:  You mean by registering to vote?

MURGUIA:  Hispanics and Latinos, in particular, need to understand that there’s never been a more important time for them to be engaged in the electoral process.

HINOJOSA:  But what about when they say “You know what? I look at these ads that these candidates are running. And I feel like, you know, as a Latino, as an immigrant, I’m being targeted. I’m angry with all of them, with the Republicans, with the Democrats. And I just-- I’m going to retreat.” I mean do you think that there could be this retreat of just like we feel alienated?

MURGUIA:  It’s possible, but I think that’s why it’s even more important for a presidential candidate to emerge, who understands how important this block that the Latino vote represents is, and to try to be responsive. And, by doing so, I think they’ll not only be responsive to the Latino vote, but they’re be responsible to the large majority of Americans who are in the middle, who want a solution that is rational, reasonable, humane and workable.

HINOJOSA:  And the statistic actually show that most Americans, about three-quarters of Americans, when the question is asked in a way that says “Look, if they’re not criminals, if they haven’t broken the law”--

MURGUIA:  -- that’s absolutely right--

HINOJOSA:  -- then, in fact, three-quarters of the American people want some kind of path to legalization.

MURGUIA:  The reality is that three-quarters of the American people understand that mass deportation is not a reasonable solution, and it’s not going to be the answer. So they want to look at what can come out, as a result of discussions and engagement on this. And what they’re saying is “Yes, if you take the criminal element out of this”-- and no one, Latinos or Americans really want anyone who’s been part of that criminal element to be able to stay or to--

HINOJOSA:  Well let’s just make it clear that, when you cross the border without papers, in fact it’s not a crime, it’s a misdemeanor.

MURGUIA:  That’s correct. And we understand that we have to make sure that there are reasonable solutions for--short of mass deportation. And sending folks back to the end of the line, having fines, making sure they're learning English, which is something that all Latinos want to do. If they don’t know English, they want to-- they aspire to learn English.

HINOJOSA:  I’ve never heard any Latino immigrant, not one, say “I never want to learn English.” They’ll say it’s hard.

MURGUIA:  The reality is that everyone recognizes the importance of learning English and wants to learn English. But the reality also is that, short of organizations like NCLR, there are very few opportunities for individuals to learn English. Our affiliates, many offer English language classes. Those classes are filled, and there’s waiting lines for those classes.

HINOJOSA:  You kind of need to offer them 24 hours a day.

MURGUIA:  But there’s no one out there in the public sector who’s saying “We really want to help and offer those kinds of classes. And here are the abilities for folks to do that.” We have classes that we’re offering. But, you know, I think this is going to require a larger response from our country, too, to say we want to make sure that integration is a part of this, and we can make sure that English is a solution. So yes, the large majority of American people, I think, understand that anything that is mass deportation is not going to work. They understand that there should be a workable and humane solution. And they want leaders in Congress and the next presidential leader to be able to articulate that. And we should be able to come up with a solution [simultaneous conversation].

HINOJOSA:  But it’s not as if many Latinos can say that one party or the other, in fact, is carrying the torch on this issue.

MURGUIA:  I think what we’ve seen is that there’s definitely a division in the Republican party. And they have been struggling to, right now, as Tom Tancredo pointed out in one of the presidential election debates, that all these candidates are trying to out-Tom Tancredo Tom Tancredo.

HINOJOSA:He loves being able to say that.

MURGUIA:  Yes. And then on the Democrat side, you have this sort of, I think, effort to try to triangulate around enforcement, because I think they’re trying to see if they can’t be seen as pro-enforcement, but, at the same time, do no harm, in terms of this constituency, which they do recognize as important. So I do think for us, in the Latino community, the issue is not going to be are we Republican or Democrat, and who are we going to vote for, but we’re going to vote for the pro-courage candidate. And this is really a choice between courage and cowardice. And we want people who are going to be courageous and create a vision that’s going to offer a workable and practical solution for not just the sake of the Hispanic community or Latino community, but for the sake of this country.

HINOJOSA:  Okay, Janet, so talking about courage, just to end up here, you are a Latina in power. You are inside the beltway. You’re one of the first, in terms of being in these rooms, with, you know, power negotiations. What moves you? I mean when you suddenly say “Oh my gosh, what have I got to do?” where do you go to find that strength?

MURGUIA:  Well, you know, what I draw upon, quite often, is my own family experience, you know. And I saw my parents come to this country from Mexico. My dad was actually born in Oklahoma, but his family moved back to Mexico. But I saw them come to this country and settle in Kansas, of all places. I grew up, and was a product of Kansas. And I love being from Kansas, and I had a great upbringing there. But what was central to that was the values that my parents instilled in me, that strong sense of family, faith, community and a sense of optimism, a belief in this country that all things were possible, and to always seek that American dream. And, you know, even though my parents didn’t have much of an education themselves, my dad a seventh grade education, my mom a fifth grade education, they knew the value of that education.And for us, seven kids, with my mom and dad, the nine of us growing up in a little bitty house, my dad was a steel worker. My mom helped take care of other neighborhood kids as she raised us. You know, that sense of valuing ourselves and always believing that we could achieve what we wanted, I think, is what I draw on. And what I see is that they were right. You know, my brother Ramon graduated from Harvard Law School, and my brother Carlos is a federal judge. My sister Mary is a federal judge. And I worked in the West Wing of the White House. Offering that American dream, that I’ve seen happen for me and my family, to everyone in this country and other families is what motivates me. And I think we should be able to make that American dream a reality for everyone.

HINOJOSA:  Janet Murguía, thanks for all your work. Thanks for joining us.

MURGUIA:  Thank you.

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