Franklin Chang Diaz

>> HINOJOSA: As NASA's first

Latino astronaut, he traveled to

space seven times, and spent an

impressive 1,600 hours away from

Earth.

Now he's developing a new kind

of rocket that will help open up

the solar system to human

exploration.

Former NASA astronaut and rocket

scientist Franklin Chang-Diaz.

I'm Maria Hinijosa.

This is One on One.

Franklin Chang-Diaz, the

astronaut.

Been in space seven times.

What an honor it is to... I have

to touch you.

It's like, "Oh, my God."

Welcome to our program.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Thank you, Maria.

It's a pleasure to be here with

you.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: I mean, no, seriously, it's

like, when do you get to meet

somebody who's actually orbited,

who's been in space?

It's an extraordinary thing.

Do you feel kind of

extraordinary most of the time?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, you know, it's

something that I was really not

prepared for, you know?

That sort of attention that we

get as people who have flown in

space, less now than it used to

be, but still significant, was

something that I was not quite

prepared for.

>> HINOJOSA: You mean because of

the fact that, like, for you,

you are the first Latino

astronaut from the United

States, but you actually are

from Costa Rica.

Your name... I love your name.

So Franklin from Franklin Delano

Roosevelt.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Roosevelt, that's right.

>> HINOJOSA: Chang from your

grandfather.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: From China.

>> HINOJOSA: From China.

And Diaz from your...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Maternal grandfather from

Spain.

>> HINOJOSA: From Spain.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Costa Rica, actually.

>> HINOJOSA: And then Costa

Rica.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: You are, like,

the...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Little bit of a mix there.

>> HINOJOSA: What is that like,

to... I mean, you say that it's

a little uncomfortable to be

seen as something special, but

again, to be seen as someone,

some person special in three

entirely different countries is

pretty extraordinary.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, it's a very big

responsibility in some ways,

mainly to the young people.

Because, you know, we become

sort of role models, and...

>> HINOJOSA: Sort of?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: We would like to be good role

models, as the role models that

we had when we were growing up.

And for me, you know, I always

wanted to be an astronaut, ever

since I was little.

And... but I was not really

mentally prepared for the

responsibility of being in such

a limelight.

>> HINOJOSA: But how is it...

because, you know, all little

girls and boys, more so now

girls and boys, but, you know,

play with the rockets, and...

but I want to know how you

actually were like, "No, no, no,

this is something that I'm

actually going to do-- I'm

actually going to study, and I

believe that I will actually get

to space."

What makes that, like, leap for

you versus another little boy or

girl who is fascinated but, you

know, doesn't become an

astronaut?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, you know, I am

stubborn.

That's one thing that I do have.

And I think every young child

pretty much is born, you know,

with an explorer's mind.

The child explores, and then

little by little, maybe through

the environment, family,

parents, friends, it gets kind

of cased in, boxed in to certain

ways.

And I think I was lucky to have

a set of parents that never

really boxed me in, that always,

you know, let me sort of find my

way.

And...

>> HINOJOSA: And they were poor.

You had a very humble

background.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Humble background, yeah.

We were nothing special.

My... neither one of my parents

went to college, or even

finished high school.

>> HINOJOSA: But you did... you

were sent to the best schools.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: I was sent to the best

schools in Costa Rica, because

my parents were strong believers

in education as the vehicle, you

know, the legacy they can really

give me.

And as a vehicle for me to

succeed and to reach whatever it

is that... you know, that I

wanted to reach.

And my mother, being the smart

woman that she is, you know,

said, "Oh, you want to be an

astronaut?

Yes, of course, but you have to

study.

You have to be an engineer.

You have to really be a

scientist if you really want to

be an astronaut."

>> HINOJOSA: So she understood

the kind of steps...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: She understood the context,

and she was able to kind of put

me in a path that would allow me

to succeed regardless of whether

or not I made it.

>> HINOJOSA: I love your mom.

There's a clip of your mom

talking where she's so cute,

because she says, "I am the only

mother in all of Costa Rica that

can say I am the mother of an

astronaut."

>> CHANG-DIAZ: That's right, that's right.

She's a cute... she's as cute as

smart.

She's very smart.

>> HINOJOSA: So proud of you.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: And a person that really,

really was probably the most

significant force that really

shaped my destiny.

>> HINOJOSA: Your mom.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: My mom.

She was the one individual that

was always there to, you know,

comfort me whenever I failed,

and, you know, tell me, "Well,

look-- just get up and keep

going, and, you know, you'll

succeed eventually."

>> HINOJOSA: But was it your

dad, in fact, who bought you the

one-way ticket?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Yes.

My dad offered...

>> HINOJOSA: One-way ticket to

Connecticut.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: To the United States, yes.

>> HINOJOSA: To the United

States.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: My dad was the figure of the

superhuman individual who was

not afraid of anything, who

would face adversity with, you

know, complete stoicism, and was

completely sure of himself.

A person who never really

studied, never really went to

high school.

>> HINOJOSA: What did he do?

What kind of work did he do?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: He was, like, a foreman.

He worked in construction, very

large roads, bridges.

>> HINOJOSA: So an engineer.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Sort of like an engineer,

yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: Self taught.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Self taught.

And... but he was, you know,

sort of the... I guess the image

that we all have of the Latino,

you know, macho man.

He was...

>> HINOJOSA: But macho in the

positive sense.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Macho in the.. yes, in a very

sort of manhood sense, and...

>> HINOJOSA: Provider.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Being able to not be afraid

of anything.

To always face the reality with

a tremendous amount of self

assurance, that he would somehow

overcome.

And I think that those kinds of

tools were given to me, maybe by

his example, which allowed me to

go into the United States and

succeed there.

>> HINOJOSA: I love the story of

when you're in high school in

Connecticut, and, you know, here

you are, and you're going to

high school every day in a suit

and a tie, and everybody thought

that was really quite unique.

They probably thought you were

an extraordinary nerd, am I

right?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Actually, you know, I was

confused with the teachers.

And there were times when the

students would say, "Hello,

sir."

And I was just one of them.

>> HINOJOSA: And you actually

taught yourself by immersion how

to speak English.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Yes.

I was...

>> HINOJOSA: You were how old at

that time?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: I was 18.

I arrived in the US, like many

immigrants... you know, this is

nothing new, really.

I mean, this is a land where

people come and...

>> HINOJOSA: And you arrived

with a visa.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: I arrived with a visa.

>> HINOJOSA: A student visa.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: To... well, I actually was

taken in by a family of

relatives of ours who... and I

became their dependent.

And in those days that was

enough.

You got, essentially, an

immigrant visa.

And I was able to go to a high

school that was a public high

school.

>> HINOJOSA: That's a very

different...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Very unique, very different

from what it is today.

>> HINOJOSA: Very different time

from... I mean, when you think

of, let's say, a young man like

yourself growing up in Costa

Rica, let's just say, who has

dreams, who wants to go to the

moon, and then he realizes that

the only way he can do that is

by coming to the United States,

do his doors close right

immediately because he says,

"Listen, I know what's happening

in that country in terms of

immigration and immigrants, I'll

never make it in"?

And do you see some of them,

maybe...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, the world is a

different place.

I mean, the formula in those

days was to come to the United

States or go to the Soviet

Union.

Those were the only two players.

Nowadays, the whole world is

opening up to space.

I mean, there's China, there is

Japan, there is... the European

countries have their astronauts

as well.

Malaysia has an astronaut.

There's a whole sort of growing

up that's taking place.

And so the world is a different

place.

And the solution to an immigrant

or a person who wants to go into

space is a different solution

today than what it would be...

what it was before.

>> HINOJOSA: Do you think that's

a wonderful thing, or is there a

part of you that thinks, you

know, NASA is, like, the

preeminent, you know, space

exploration?

Maybe it's too bad that, you

know, more people aren't going

to be coming to this country to

work with NASA to develop NASA,

to make it... and instead they

may choose to work for other

countries or their home

countries.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, in a way, that's really

something that's happening.

And in some ways, it has been a

result of the space program.

The space program in some ways

has almost leveled the playing

field.

That is, today scientists,

engineers, can do science and

engineering pretty much anywhere

on the planet, because you have

access to instant communications

pretty much anywhere.

In fact, today we do rocket

research in Costa Rica, of all

places.

You know, you would never

imagine that, you know, we would

have a rocket research facility

in the northwestern part of

Costa Rica.

>> HINOJOSA: And that's actually

through your own company, and

you're working in Costa Rica and

the United States.

But go ahead.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: That's right.

But I think the point is that

space is really a world

endeavor.

It's no longer the work of two

counties, and the rest of us

just are there just to witness

this beautiful thing that's

happening to the human race,

but, you know, we're in the

bleachers watching the game, and

the ones that are playing the

game are only two countries.

That's no longer the case.

Everybody can get in the game

now, because if you have access

to good science information,

education, you can play the

game.

>> HINOJOSA: So let me... I want

to just return to one thing,

because, you know, the fact that

you are... and again, Franklin,

you represent so much of our

human race.

You know, again, just everything

that makes a part of you-- you

know, Chinese, European,

indigenous from Costa Rica, now,

you know, the United States.

I mean, there is something to be

said about the fact that people

supported you in that way.

They, in fact, helped you.

You've probably heard about the

Dream Act in this country.

In a way, you were like the

first recipient of the actual

Dream Act, because you were, in

essence, undocumented.

You needed to be kind of brought

in and supported.

And people in the state of

Connecticut in the year... what

year was that?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: That was in '69.

>> HINOJOSA: And the entire

state of Connecticut said, "We

want to support Franklin

Chang-Diaz.

He may not have official papers,

but he was welcomed here."

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Absolutely.

>> HINOJOSA: "And we are going

to put our entire state behind

him."

And my god, look what we got in

return.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: So very much the land of

opportunity.

And, you know, this is what we

really ought to return to.

You know, let the country bring

in all these, you know, masses

of people who really want to

make a better life, because this

is the fresh new blood that this

country uses to grow.

You know, if we don't do that,

we basically stagnate.

So I am very strongly in favor

of a more open policy for the

United States.

And I think in some ways closing

our borders is bad news for us.

>> HINOJOSA: I wonder how your

perspective as an astronaut kind

of informs that perspective.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, the other thing, Maria,

is that, like I said, the world

has changed.

And now we look at ourselves as

citizens of a planet, not

citizens of a country.

And so I don't see myself as

much as a citizen of the United

States, or a citizen of Costa

Rica.

I just see myself as a citizen

of the planet Earth.

And the more you go out and fly

in space, the more you realize

that, you know, this little ball

is really our home, and that we

are all really in it.

And all these borders that have

been drawn, you know, are really

sort of irrelevant at this

point.

There is a saying that one of my

heroes, John Young, often says,

that when you are on your way to

Mars, you're going to spend most

of your time looking out the

window at this one little point

of light that is the place where

you came from, and this other

little point of light which is

the place that you're going to.

And he says this is going to

redefine loneliness.

And I think he's right.

>> HINOJOSA: Oh, my God, that's

extraordinary.

I remember, you know, just... we

were talking off set about what

it does to you as a human

being-- again, and I love the

fact that you're like, "I'm not

a citizen primarily of any one

place, but of this planet"--

what it does to you to have that

distance, how it affects you.

You know, does it make you

incredibly hopeful, or does it

make you a little sad,

especially when you can... you

were saying that even from

space, you can see the

geopolitics.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: You can see changes.

I had the good fortune of, you

know, having flown so many

times, first flights in the mid

'80s, and then the last flight

in the early 2000s.

And, you know, the world has

changed.

And you see the... you know, the

weight of humanity on the

planet, certainly from the

distance at which we fly.

You know, the orbit of the

space...

>> HINOJOSA: So what does it

look like?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: It looks... you see, for

example, the ravages of

deforestation in one country

versus another.

They say... oftentimes they used

to say sort of romantically that

from space you cannot see the

borders between nations.

And that's not true.

>> HINOJOSA: Wow.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: For example, you can see very

clearly the border between Egypt

and Israel, having to do with

the way they handle water.

You can see very well the border

between the United States and

Mexico.

You can see the border between

Guatemala and Mexico.

>> HINOJOSA: And so those three,

like, what do you see?

The United States in terms of...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: The density of crops in the

north of the Rio Grande is much

higher.

And the density of crops in the

south of the border is not as

high.

You know, it's noticeable.

And because you're looking at it

from such a distance, you see it

as a straight line.

And nature usually doesn't make

straight lines like that.

You see borders between states

in Brazil, for example where,

you know, deforestation is

taking place in one state and

not in the other.

Why?

It has to do with the way people

live, the way people, you know,

decide...

>> HINOJOSA: You could have made

a choice to become, let's say, a

human rights activist, traveling

the world, talking about, you

know, land usage and human

rights.

But in fact, you have been

working for 32 years on

developing a rocket that is

powered in a different way than

regular rockets that would get

us to Mars, your way...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Very fast.

>> HINOJOSA: ...39 days.

And I love the way you say,

"Very fast."

I'm like, "Okay 39 days to

Mars."

Versus a total of how many

months?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Seven or eight months,

typically in a mission today,

yes.

>> HINOJOSA: And you actually

have been working on this for 32

years.

So how close... are you meeting

deadline?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: We are, actually.

We have now... we're firing this

rocket in the laboratory in our

facilities in Houston.

We have a research facility

there.

The company has it.

And we can it the VASIMIR

engine.

And the particular engine that

we are testing is called the

VX200.

It's got its own little

designation.

It's a 200 kilowatt engine.

It's the most powerful plasma

rocket in operation in the world

today.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: So for those of us who are

not, you know, physicists, and

walk around thinking... so a

plasma powered rocket versus...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: A chemical rocket.

>> HINOJOSA: A chemical rocket.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Typically the rockets that we

see launching from Cape Kennedy

or whatever they see on TV are

chemical rockets.

They've been around for, you

know, almost a century now.

And this technology is the

technology that took us to the

moon, got us to the moon, you

know, gets a space station

orbiting.

But it's not the technology

that's going to really get us to

Mars.

It is too slow.

>> HINOJOSA: But if people have

known this for so long, that

it's too slow, how come we have

continued to hear that NASA is

working on trying to get to Mars

when you're basically saying,

"Yeah, they have been, but

everybody knows that it's going

to take too long," and therefore

cost a lot more money, and

probably not be green, if there

is such a thing?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, you know, NASA, just

like a very large organization,

is very hard to turn.

>> HINOJOSA: It's a bureaucracy.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: As they say, it's a ship, you

know, which is moving and has a

tremendous amount of inertia,

and it's very difficult to make

a course... significant course

correction.

Now, President Obama has

outlined new guidelines for

NASA, having to do with what

they call game changing

technologies.

You know, focus on the

technology, not so much on the

mission right now, but on the

technology, that enables the

mission.

>> HINOJOSA: And you think that

that's the right way?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: And I think that is the right

thing to do.

I think it is sort of strong

medicine going on right now, and

I think that the agency is

suffering from this very strong

dose of very strong medicine.

But it's a necessary change.

It's something that we should

have done, you know, ten years

ago, or more.

>> HINOJOSA: Well, but for those

people who just say, "You know

what?

Why would humans who are not

doing such a good job of taking

care of this ball," as you say,

this little ball that you see

from so far away, our planet...

we're not doing such a good job.

I mean, we have wars, we have

environmental destruction.

Why would we want to export that

to Mars, that looks so beautiful

from down here?

Why would you want to do that?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, I mean, really, space

exploration is all about

survival, really.

It's about survival of humanity.

And we have no choice.

We have to explore.

In fact, the space program

really, I say often, began when

people walked out of their

caves-- the first time that

people actually went out to

explore.

And the frontier has been pushed

further and further.

But I think that in exploring

space, we are ensuring our

survival.

And people talk about, you know,

the destination.

We're going to go to Mars, we're

going to go to, you know, an

asteroid.

You know, we're going to the

stars.

That's where we're going.

These are all... the other ones

are just simple waypoints.

>> HINOJOSA: We're going to the

stars.

And tell me how, by going to the

stars, that is ensuring our

human survival.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: As-- again, I quote my hero--

John Young says, we are a

species with no redundancy.

That is the human species.

If something happens to our

planet, we are history.

In fact, it's a history no one

can write, you know?

If our planet were to be hit by

a collusion with an asteroid or

be suffered from, you know, a

super earthquake, or some major

catastrophe on the planet, we

have no place to go.

Humanity as a whole is confined

to this one spacecraft.

We have a... we are a single

planet species.

And we need to remedy that.

As every space person knows, you

always have to have redundancy.

And you really want to let

humanity explore, and move out

into space.

>> HINOJOSA: But I immediately

wonder... I'm like, "Well, I

don't know if I would have the

money to pay for a ticket to get

to Mars."

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Exactly.

>> HINOJOSA: And therefore that

only the elite, the

super-elite...

>> CHANG-DIAZ: It is now the super-elite.

That's who flies right now.

But if we do this, then the same

thing that's happening today

with air travel will happen with

space.

>> HINOJOSA: Oh, please, no.

The image of getting to space

looking like an airport in the

United States of America is just

kind of scary.

How do you live... I mean, you

actually know this, Franklin

Chang-Diaz.

You know that something

catastrophic in fact could

happen to our Earth-- not our

country, our Earth, our

universe-- at any moment.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Yeah.

>> HINOJOSA: You walk around

with that.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Sure.

You know, we are not really that

important sort of in the cosmic,

you know, big picture.

Planets come and go.

And, you know, humanity is not

really such an important element

in the makeup of the universe.

So we could easily disappear

without anything important

happening.

>> HINOJOSA: That's so hard to

hear.

But do you believe that there is

life beyond?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well, you know, we have

never... we have not found it.

But I find that it would be more

extraordinary if we really,

truly were alone.

Because you look at the... you

know, the stars in the sky, and

the more you find, you know, the

tremendous amount of stars and

planets around these stars, we

are not in the center of

anything.

We're not in any special place.

We live in a very sort of

unimportant corner of our

galaxy.

And there's no reason why we

would have to be the only ones

that exist here.

So I have a feeling that life

outside of the Earth is more

the norm than the exception,

that actually the universe is

teeming with life.

>> HINOJOSA: Wow.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: And that we are going to find

it eventually when we learn to

travel fast.

>> HINOJOSA: But if we can get a

rocket that maybe might make its

way to Mars, how is it possible

that we haven't really found

that life beyond?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Mars is just around the

corner.

I mean, Mars is just the

beginning of our exploration.

There is a lot more to explore,

and we may find that in this

solar system, which is just a

little tiny speck in the entire

universe, that we may be the

only ones as a civilization.

But that doesn't say anything

about all the other so-called

extrasolar planets, all these

other, you know, nearby stars

that could have living

conditions very similar to

Earth.

And so we just have to develop

the means to transport ourselves

to these places.

Now, obviously we're not going

to do it in the next few years,

but we've got to start.

We've got to start right now.

>> HINOJOSA: So Franklin, before

I let you go, I'm sure that

there will be some young people

who are watching this.

And you know the importance of,

you know, especially as an

astronaut, putting that hope in

one of those children who have a

dream like you did.

So what do you want to say to

these young kids who are

thinking, "You know, I really

want to go to space, but my

school isn't good," you know,

"my family life," or, "it's

just... I find it too hard, but

I really want to go."

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Well...

>> HINOJOSA: What do you say to

them?

>> CHANG-DIAZ: What I say to them, "You

know, if I could make it, you

certainly can make it."

I was not a model student.

I never was.

I was not at the bottom of the

class, but I was not at the top

of the class.

I was just a regular kid, a

normal kid, that had the benefit

of great parents.

And I often say, "No one gets

anywhere without someone else's

help."

And I had plenty of help.

And I think lots of people are

out there to help.

So, you know, kids, go for it,

you know?

>> HINOJOSA: Dream.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: And dream about it, and do

it, and make your dreams happen.

You know, the first human being

that will walk on Mars is a

young girl or a young boy about,

maybe, ten, 15 years old.

And they're probably sitting in

some classroom today, you know,

wondering what they're going to

do with their life.

Imagine that.

>> HINOJOSA: Okay, I will.

Franklin Chang-Diaz, thank you

so much for joining us.

Again, touching someone who's

been to space.

Thank you for all of your work.

>> CHANG-DIAZ: Thank you.

>> HINOJOSA: Continue the

conversation at

wgbh.or/oneoneone.