Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: In 1962 as a
teenager she recorded her first
hit.
But despite her initial success,
she spent four decades waiting
for her moment in the spotlight.
Now in her 60s, she's been
crowned the Comeback Queen, and
she's sharing the stage with
megastars like Jon Bon Jovi and
Paul McCartney.
The Great Lady of Soul, Bettye
LaVette.
I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This is One on One.
Bettye LaVette, the Great Lady
of Soul, welcome to our program.
>> LAVETTE: Thank you.
Thanks so much for having me.
>> HINOJOSA: It's an honor to
have you here.
>> LAVETTE: Thank you.
>> HINOJOSA: I mean, you have
had hits that people have heard
starting in 1962.
Probably most people saw you
when you sang for the
inauguration of President Barack
Obama.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, absolutely.
>> HINOJOSA: You sang "A Change
is Going to Come."
>> LAVETTE: More people than had ever
seen me to date.
>> HINOJOSA: You were incredibly
excited about being on that
stage.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, for sure.
There were so many things
happening to me that weren't
happening to anyone else on the
entire show.
And if you remember, there were
a lot of people there.
I was the only one... was the
only performer who was born in
segregation on the show.
My career is the exact same age
as the President, so... and it
was the first time that that
many people had ever seen me.
It was one of the biggest breaks
I've ever had in my career, and
then we were having the first
black president.
So a lot of stuff was going on
for me.
>> HINOJOSA: And when you
realized that in fact this
audience that you have basically
been looking for since 1962 as a
singer, that you had it that
day, millions upon millions of
people, what goes on at that
moment when it's like... it's,
like, your moment?
>> LAVETTE: You've got to sing.
No, I mean, it was really as
simple as that.
You've been looking for these
people for almost 50 years.
Sing.
After the man says, "One, two,
three, four," sing.
>> HINOJOSA: So you started in
1962 in Detroit, and you were
how old?
>> LAVETTE: 16.
>> HINOJOSA: 16, and you get
your first big break.
>> LAVETTE: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: And it's... what's
the nature of that song that you
recorded?
>> LAVETTE: A song that I hated for a
very long time, because it made
me an instant adult.
All of my friends were doing
American Bandstand, and you
wanted to go... you wanted first
of all to have a crossover
record, which "My Man" would
never have done at that time,
because it was a black rhythm
and blues record about a black
situation, worded for black
people.
And it took me directly where...
well, the Supremes hadn't had
their first record then.
I mean their first national
record.
But the other young people, like
the Shirelles, whoever, were all
together.
And I was on the road with Clyde
McPhatter and Ben E. King.
Everybody was at least six years
older than me, six to 15 years
older than me.
>> HINOJOSA: So Bettye, here you
are, you're a teenager, you're
singing about your man, and
you've got this voice that you
yourself have said it's gruff,
it's harsh.
What was going on for you as a
kid at that time?
Because you're like... you want
to just be a big star, right?
>> LAVETTE: Yes.
And I thought that I was going
to be one.
I... you know, soon after I got
on the road with the adults,
then I started to feel like an
adult, and it was okay then
after that that I wasn't able to
be a little girl on television.
I still had dreams of Shirley
Temple in my head when I
started.
But it was... I never really had
the real desire to be a child.
So it was... my mother said she
talked baby talk to me to try
and get me to talk baby talk,
she said, but I always talked
just like this, and I called her
Pearl.
>> HINOJOSA: You called your mom
Pearl?
>> LAVETTE: Until I got a little older.
But, I mean, that's what
everybody else called her.
>> HINOJOSA: But you know what?
I was fascinated by the fact
that when you talk about your
life, you're like, "I never
wanted to be a kid.
I wanted to stay up late, I
wanted to say cuss words."
>> LAVETTE: Always.
>> HINOJOSA: I didn't know if
you said you wanted to be
smoking and drinking.
>> LAVETTE: I always wanted to smoke and
drink and cuss, and wear black
dresses, always.
As long as I can remember.
>> HINOJOSA: And your parents...
you grew up in Detroit, and your
parents were working people, but
they did have a jukebox.
>> LAVETTE: Well, I was born in Muskegon,
Michigan, which is Western
Michigan.
And this is during segregation,
and my parents sold corn liquor.
And if you wanted a drink after
work, you certainly couldn't
drop by the bar, so you had to
drop by my house.
And they would come by and
get...
>> HINOJOSA: It was a whole
different reality.
>> LAVETTE: Yeah.
They'd buy little half pints of
whiskey and pay on Friday when
they got paid.
But there was no gambling or
women or... it was married
people who worked with my
parents every day in the
factory.
>> HINOJOSA: So what happens?
Are your parents supporting you
at this time?
Are they saying, "Go forth,
don't be a child anymore"?
>> LAVETTE: I love it.
You know, I was raised on the
north end of Detroit, which is
where the Temptations and Aretha
Franklin, almost everybody else
came from, Jackie Wilson.
>> HINOJOSA: And they were all
your friends.
>> LAVETTE: Smokey Robinson lived
across... well, not really.
They were older than me.
But they were people that I knew
and was aware of, but I didn't
meet them until I started
singing.
I mean, they were older than me.
I had never seen anyone on a
stage until the night I went on
the stage, because I hadn't been
to a bar or to a show or
anything before.
But in 1962 in Detroit, that
was... you were either just...
you would either go to one of
the factories or you went to
show business.
It was very easy in 1962 to go
into show business, because
there were so many producers and
so many record companies and so
many writers, and it was just
happening.
And it seemed like it was all
just happening that week.
They all said, "Let's start on
Monday."
>> HINOJOSA: And was the
community supportive of...
>> LAVETTE: Yes, we... that's what I was
about to tell you.
It's so funny to me when I hear
my friends talk from that period
about their parents being
hesitant not... for them to get
in show business, whatever.
I was the first person in my
family to ever make $100 in one
day.
Of course they wanted me to be
in show business.
I don't know anyone... Diana,
who lived in the projects.
I'm sure everyone wanted their
child to get out of those
circumstances.
But I don't think there were a
lot them who said, "Oh, no, we
don't want this million dollars,
because, like, she's got a ninth
grade test to complete."
There were some.
But now it seems that that was
what everybody's parents said,
and I don't think that's true.
>> HINOJOSA: Bettye, I want to
ask you about something that
you've talked a lot about in
terms of your career, something
that happened in 1972.
You had been signed by Atlantic
Records, and it was a huge
moment.
This was yet... like you were
going to have now your...
>> LAVETTE: Another moment.
>> HINOJOSA: 1962, it was 1972,
it was going to be another big
hit.
You were all ready, right?
>> LAVETTE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: You were ready to
jump on.
>> LAVETTE: I had their hottest producer,
who had been producing Wilson
Pickett.
We went down to Muscle Shoals,
which is why the album's called
The Scene of the Crime.
And Atlantic was really behind
it.
And it didn't come out.
We... it was... I just thought
it was really a very good album.
And they just called one day and
said, "We've decided not to go
forward with the project."
And they had already sent me the
plane tickets to go on the
promotion tour.
They said, "Send the tickets
back.
We've decided not to go
forward."
Of course, I've let everyone I
know in show business listen to
this, and I've got the plane
tickets, so I know it's coming
up.
Now I don't believe anything
unless I'm actually standing
there.
>> HINOJOSA: So it was an
incredible life lesson.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, it was like somebody had
come and kicked me in my
stomach.
It was just...
>> HINOJOSA: Devastating.
I mean, basically they were
saying to you, "We don't think
you're good enough," right?
>> LAVETTE: Well, they had... Atlantic...
and we've just found out... the
New Yorker just did a piece on
me, and we just found out in
doing those interviews why it
didn't come out, and who caused
it not to come out.
And all these years, we've never
even known that.
>> HINOJOSA: And what was it,
then?
>> LAVETTE: Well, Jerry Wexler and Ahmet
Ertegun at the time were getting
ready to make this big split
where it was going to be all the
rock groups once again, and
Ahmet Ertegun wanted to go that
route, and Jerry Wexler was my
champion.
And he had become kind of
disgusted with the lack of
attention being paid to rhythm
and blues.
And Aretha's... Aretha and
Wilson Pickett's stuff was
already set.
They weren't interested in
building of developing another
R & B act.
>> HINOJOSA: So you basically
have this moment where, you
know, American popular culture
is being decided... you know,
one of the ways in which it's
going to go, by a couple of
guys.
>> LAVETTE: Mm-hmm.
>> HINOJOSA: And you were the
victim.
>> LAVETTE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: And at that point,
you said that you got under a
table for how many days?
>> LAVETTE: I got under the dining room
table, and I stayed under there
for three days.
I just had this big jug of wine,
and I just poured that in a
paper cup and drank it, and I
would come out, and go to the
bathroom, and go right back up
under there.
>> HINOJOSA: Are you crying?
>> LAVETTE: Oh, yeah, all day.
I was just devastated.
And then somebody called and
said, "Come and do something."
>> HINOJOSA: You know, you talk
about the fact that you had
these 40 years... you had your
first hit in 1962, and then
essentially 40 years of still
working, but without a hit.
And you talk a lot about what
that felt like, those 40 years.
You... in fact, you have this
term that you used.
You call it...
>> LAVETTE: The struggle.
>> HINOJOSA: The struggle.
>> LAVETTE: Just the struggle.
But it wasn't the struggle... I
never had to live in a car.
I've always been fortunate with
people.
While the business wasn't kind
to me, people were.
People paid car notes and
mortgages and bought clothes and
plane tickets, and they
really...
>> HINOJOSA: Fans?
>> LAVETTE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: Fans.
>> LAVETTE: It was a core group of people
that did these things for me,
and are still with me now, and
really believed in it.
And I didn't believe in me every
day.
It was like, "Here, go
shopping," or "Here, go and do
this show for $20, and we'll get
you this $100 dress to go do
this show for $20, and have some
champagne and be happy."
>> HINOJOSA: You were singing
for $50 a night.
>> LAVETTE: Mm-hmm, three shows.
>> HINOJOSA: And not...
>> LAVETTE: Three one-hour shows.
>> HINOJOSA: And the total that
you would get is $50 a night.
>> LAVETTE: Well, I got $100, but I had
to give $50 of it to my keyboard
player.
>> HINOJOSA: And you actually...
I mean, again, you... one of the
things I love about you, Bettye,
is that you take this situation
and you kind of turn it on its
head.
Because, you know, you could say
that those were years of the
struggle, but now you're able to
say those years of the struggle
allowed you to create the
profound, honest way in which
you sing.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, I think absolutely.
I think that had I become a star
at 16, right after "My Man,"
well, first of all, why would I
have had to grow?
When you become a star, you're
finished.
You have grown.
Apparently you've learned
everything there to learn.
You're a star.
So that would inhibit growth,
does and has.
So I'm, in retrospect, very glad
that I was allowed to get this
good.
Because I didn't start this
good.
>> HINOJOSA: When you were
younger, though, you did not...
when you heard your own voice,
you didn't like it.
>> LAVETTE: No, I wanted to sound like a
girl.
You know, I wanted to sound
sweet and mellifluous and
pretty.
And I knew I didn't sound that
way.
And when I was young, of course
you want your contemporaries to
like you.
So a bunch of grown people
liking me at first wasn't... and
no kids liking me, you know,
that really didn't... my friends
were not impressed, or whatever.
I wasn't singing the songs they
were dancing to.
But adults were fascinated, and
I was packing bars.
But no ballrooms or dances or...
>> HINOJOSA: Talk a little bit
about that issue of struggling
to find your identity as a young
woman of color who's a performer
who wants to be part of the
mainstream, and having this
particular voice that is so
unique, and the struggles of,
you know, wanting to be loved.
>> LAVETTE: Well, that was due to a
manager whose name was Jim
Lewis, who heard everything that
I could possibly be, and I heard
none of it.
And for the first maybe five or
six years, maybe ten years that
we were together, it was... I
thought he wanted me to
eventually learn how to sound
like Sarah Vaughan, and sound
like Nancy Wilson.
And he was trying to get me to
sing those songs, but with my
voice.
And I would feel like, "Well,
they don't sound pretty when I
sing them."
He said, "That's because you
don't sound pretty.
You sound like this.
So sing them like that, with all
your heart."
And I couldn't get that
together.
>> HINOJOSA: That's... for
someone to say... for a manager
to say, "You don't sound
pretty"...
>> LAVETTE: Oh, no, he said... and he
called, like, people like the
Miracles and the Temptations, he
called those my little friends.
He said, "You and your little
friends have got to sustain
these careers for 50 and 60
years."
And he said, "If you don't learn
your craft, you won't be able to
do that.
You either have to learn your
craft, or you have to have a hit
record every two years.
That's the only way you'll be
able to make any money at this.
I won't promise you that you're
going to be a star, but you will
be able to make your money
singing, and you will be a
respected artist if you listen
to me."
And I wouldn't do that for a
long time.
I said, "He just wants me to be
old, and he just likes all this
old music from the '40s, and
he's not hip, and he wants to
make me old, too."
Oh, it was just a constant
battle.
>> HINOJOSA: And now you have...
I love the fact that you don't
call it a comeback, because you
were working.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, all the time.
>> HINOJOSA: You were working
all the time.
>> LAVETTE: Yep.
>> HINOJOSA: Now, you may not
have been getting all the calls,
necessarily, that you wanted to
get, or to perform...
>> LAVETTE: I was making most of the
calls-- "Can I please come and
work there?"
>> HINOJOSA: So this... when did
it happen for you that you were
able to say, "This is the voice
of Bettye LaVette, this is how I
sound, it is gruff, it is... it
is a voice that sounds like it
has been lived in"?
>> LAVETTE: I think in doing those little
gigs.
You would get so maudlin and sad
you would crawl inside the song.
And I started to actually crawl
inside the songs.
And when I got into them I felt
like, "Well, I'm presenting them
the way I feel."
And I became aware that I was
presenting what I felt.
Maybe it wasn't a great sound,
but it was a powerful feeling.
And it was in those little clubs
that I found that.
And then when I went to do
Bubbling Brown Sugar, theater,
because I was directed for the
first time, and told, "Here,
sound like this at this time,
and look this way while you're
doing it," that direction took
me far and away from my
contemporaries, because they
learned on the fly.
I was directed.
So I was able to add that to
what I had learned on the
fly.
And it just made me come out of
that being a completely
different kind of singer and
performer.
>> HINOJOSA: So when you look
out into your audience, who do
you see now?
Who is the audience of Bettye
LaVette?
>> LAVETTE: Well, in the last eight years
it has changed tremendously.
It was conscientious whites who
had become rhythm and blues
aficionados, and held onto that
'60s and '70s part of my career.
And then when I finally, eight
years ago, got a booking agent,
they allowed me to be my own
ambassador.
I always felt that I could
entertain people, and if they
heard me, I'd get another gig.
But I had long given up the "If
they hear me I'll become a
star."
But I knew if they heard me
they'd hire me again, and I
would be able to work.
So I was able to... as I said,
with the booking agency,
Rosebud, they were just sticking
me everyplace-- on every little
festival, and garnering this new
white audience.
And then after the inaugural,
when I did "A Change is Going to
Come," I noticed right away,
right after that, the next week,
more black faces in the
audience.
They were like, "I bought her
record in 1962," or, "I bought
her record in..." but they
didn't know where I was.
I was only working in one place
or two places.
Blacks didn't frequent theater a
lot, so they didn't see that
whole part.
Then I had this little disco
record.
No blacks my age bought that.
So I didn't exist to them.
So now after the inaugural
thing, I'm seeing more and more
and more black faces.
>> HINOJOSA: So you also have
now this fan base that is pretty
extraordinary.
When you sang "Love is Going to
Reign Over Me" at the Kennedy
Center Honors...
>> LAVETTE: That's a whole other group.
>> HINOJOSA: A whole other part
of an audience opened up for
you.
And you actually had Roger
Daltry kneeling at your chair,
and you had Pete Townsend saying
that your rendition of that song
made him break into tears.
>> LAVETTE: Mm-hmm.
And you're just like, "Hey,
guys, you're the Who."
What was that like?
I mean, what was it like to know
that you were then breaking into
that other sector?
>> LAVETTE: Well, as I said, it was more
of a... it was more satisfaction
for me to see my husband, who is
Irish, who grew up with this
music, and who knew all of these
people.
He knows their favorite color,
and when they were born, to my
annoyance.
Because nobody knew all of that
about me.
And he's a record historian and
collector, so he knows all about
not only black music, but the
British music.
And it was... the British rock
thing that I've just done was
his concept.
And he... so for me to see him
see them looking at me like
that, it was like...
I got more of a kick out of that
than... because I just don't
have that reverence for that
group of people.
Everybody that I have reverence
for came before me.
I don't know any contemporaries
that I idolize.
>> HINOJOSA: So who would be
someone that you have...
>> LAVETTE: Ray Charles.
>> HINOJOSA: Ray Charles.
>> LAVETTE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: And you actually
said that you would love to have
the Ray Charles audience.
>> LAVETTE: Yes, and it's turning into
that, slowly but surely-- young,
old, foreign, near, black,
white.
I'm really enjoying that,
because that means that I'm an
entertainer.
It doesn't mean I'm a rock star,
or a rhythm and blues star.
It means I'm entertaining a
group of people.
>> HINOJOSA: You are working
hard.
>> LAVETTE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: I mean, the calls
are coming in, but it basically
means you've got to work hard.
>> LAVETTE: I've got to show up for them,
yes.
>> HINOJOSA: And you're a
grandma.
>> LAVETTE: Yeah, which means that now
that I'm doing more work, I will
be able to get a walker to match
my outfits.
I'm going to be so cool.
>> HINOJOSA: It's interesting,
because, you know, you do not
give off a scent... a moment of,
you know, "I'm tired, I feel
overworked."
You give off total energy.
But for you, this... for you to
sing, it is work.
>> LAVETTE: Oh, absolutely.
It is why so many of my
contemporaries, when they start
to work less, you find their
voices getting weaker, because
you've got to do it.
And by me singing, trying to
sing over a group of drinking
people three times a night, it
was nothing but exercise for my
voice, just making it stronger
and stronger and stronger.
So by the time they did call, I
was cool.
>> HINOJOSA: You say that when
you perform sometimes... and for
those who haven't heard you,
just when you're hearing you
sing on a CD, it is as if your
whole body is coming through.
And you say that sometimes after
you perform, you feel like you
have actually been beat up.
>> LAVETTE: Yeah, well, now, too, it's
the travel of any kind.
At first, I had always dreamed
of being able to travel and take
my band on a plane.
We hate the airport.
So now I'm back to, "I'll be
okay if I'm in the car."
I hate the car.
But when you mix the traveling
all day, and then getting off
and doing the thing at night, if
I had been doing it all of the
time, it wouldn't strike my body
so hard.
But they've essentially come and
gotten me away from home, where
I was doing one gig a week and
taking my grandchildren back and
forth to school, and said,
"Here-- get on this plane, get
in this car, get on this van,
get up, get down, go on the
stage."
And right now I'm not really...
I don't have that group of
people swirling around me who
are, like, putting on my lip
gloss, and doing whatever.
So I'm basically doing
everything myself.
>> HINOJOSA: And then you get a
call to actually front for
Robert Plant.
>> LAVETTE: Yeah, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: I mean, a huge rock
star.
What was that like?
>> LAVETTE: Oh, it was very much like the
show I had done the night
before.
Very much like it.
From all I can tell, I had the
same band, and the audience when
I... I was grateful that his
audience was so receptive of me,
but I felt that was my job.
And then, too, it's easier to
win over an older audience if
you're an adult.
I know that they're older, I
know that they were there
pretending to be 20 again for
Robert Plant.
But they had to be 65 with me,
and they appreciated the relief.
They didn't have to scream, they
didn't have to do...
>> HINOJOSA: So Bettye, do you
think that your honesty, the
fact that you are so brutally
honest about things, has helped
you in your career, in your
life, or has it been one of
those things that you've been
honest, because that is who you
are, but sometimes it's just...
it's been hard?
>> LAVETTE: Oh, it's helped, it's helped.
And then I imagine that it has
hurt.
I don't think it hurt as much as
it's helped, because before I
got old, there wasn't anybody
for me to insult or talk to, so,
you know, I wasn't... it isn't
like a lot of the people in the
industry were insulted by me.
I only became this way after I
got older.
Now I say what I mean, because
that's exactly what I mean.
I do not need your help.
I don't care more than I'm
struggling.
The struggle part is no longer
there.
>> HINOJOSA: So you have this
amazing song called "The Battle
of Bettye LaVette."
And it really... and again, when
you talk about the honesty of
your life, you put it all out
there.
You just basically say, "You
know, in my life, there were
people who never... they set me
aside, cast me aside."
Tell me a little bit about kind
of singing in such an intimate
way about your life and the
struggle and the fact that you
didn't become the big star, but
that you're still here.
>> LAVETTE: You know, I don't consider
myself a songwriter at all.
But people around me encourage
me to write because I talk so
much, they assume I can act and
that I can write, and I can't do
either.
They both require different
skills than just being able to
talk a lot.
But when I was doing "Scene of
the Crime" with the Drive-By
Truckers, Patterson Hood, who is
leader of that group, is a
prolific writer, and just really
was laughing at lots of things I
was saying.
He said, "Just write down what
you're saying."
And I said, "I can't write,
Patterson."
And he said, "Well, I'll write
you a song."
So he wrote the song out and
whatever.
I said, "I don't like this."
So I said, "Give me the pen."
And he said... what made me grab
the pen, actually, he said... I
was asking him who he liked from
Detroit.
He said, "David Ruffin.
Do you know him?"
I said, "I knew David Ruffin
when he was sober."
And the song came up from there,
you know?
>> HINOJOSA: Bettye, you talk
about, you know, your life, and
people talk about your life as
this story of kind of redemption
and triumph after the struggle.
Do you see it the same way?
You know, when you stand back
and look at your life, is it
really this story of triumph,
and what is the message then of
Bettye LaVette's... not her
music, but of her life, for the
rest of us?
>> LAVETTE: It is redemption.
I feel absolutely redeemed.
And I had the opportunity,
fortunately enough, to see all
the people that I wanted to see
me and have them see how I held
on.
I won't go on to name them all,
but I've been put in three very
big situations where there were
people there who I grew up with,
who have just been very, very
big all of my struggle.
And they had a chance to see me
in a size six, and they weren't,
with a very strong voice, and
their's wasn't.
And that was redeeming.
>> HINOJOSA: Wow.
So you're kind of looking and
saying...
>> LAVETTE: Yeah, and then, you know,
like, when I had the opportunity
to get the Rhythm and Blues
Foundation Award, which they
gave to Berry Gordy at the same
time, this was the biggest
company in my city, which signed
me in 1972, but it wasn't really
Motown then.
But my voice wasn't the sound of
young America.
So while they all knew me, they
all watched me starve.
So I've had the opportunity to
tell several people nice things
recently, and to see them.
You should have seen when I
walked out on the stage at the
Kennedy Center Honors, because
you don't know who's going to be
there, even though you've been
there for two days by that time.
You don't know who's going to
perform.
So when I walked out, there were
several mouths that were...
"The Bettye LaVette that I
know... the Bettye LaVette
that's my age?"
>> HINOJOSA: "She's up there
singing at the Kennedy Center
Honors, and I didn't know about
this?"
>> LAVETTE: The O'Jays told me, they said
that... they were my very best
friends in show business, and I
haven't seen them in maybe 30
years, until recently.
And they said, "We called
everybody we know trying to be
on that inaugural show.
We called... pulled out every
stop.
So we decided we're going to
stay home, we aren't going to
go stand in the cold.
We're going to look at it on
television."
So he says, "We're sitting
there, we're looking, and the
man says, "Ladies and gentlemen,
Bettye LaVette and Jon Bon
Jovi."
And he said they wanted to say
something to each other, but
they just kept looking at each
other and...
>> HINOJOSA: They were like,
"Bettye?
Our Bettye LaVette?
The one who's been in the
struggle?"
>> LAVETTE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, Bettye, thank
you so much.
We're glad that the struggle
paid off.
We really are.
>> LAVETTE: Thank you, baby.
>> HINOJOSA: Thank you so much.,
>> LAVETTE: Thanks so much for having me.
>> HINOJOSA: Continue the
conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
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