Transcript
>> HINOJOSA: Did you know that
there are more Chinese
restaurants in America than
McDonald's, Burger King, and
Kentucky Fried Chicken combined?
What makes Americans so crazy
about Chinese food?
My guest today is journalist and
author of The Fortune Cookie
Chronicles Jennifer 8. Lee.
I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This is One on One.
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
Jennifer 8. Lee, you are a
former New York Times reporter
and the author of Fortune Cookie
Chronicles: Adventures in the
World of Chinese Food.
And lets just start with that
first statistic of if you look
at the number of McDonald's,
Burger Kings, Kentucky Fried
Chickens, and Wendy's combined,
you still have more Chinese food
restaurants.
>> LEE: More Chinese restaurants.
More than 45,000, and growing
every year, about ten percent.
>> HINOJOSA: So how is that
possible?
Because people think, you know
what?
You have fast food everywhere in
the United States.
Or there's an image.
So the truth is that in fact
Chinese food is...
>> LEE: More pervasive, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: More a part of who
we are, in a way.
>> LEE: Exactly, exactly.
Because, you know, as I like to
say, you know, if our benchmark
for Americanness is apple pie,
you should ask yourself, when
was the last time you ate apple
pie versus when was the last
time you ate Chinese food?
I think for the vast, vast
majority of people, they will
have eaten Chinese food, whether
it's General Gau's chicken, or
beef with broccoli, or, you
know, fried rice more recently.
>> HINOJOSA: So you grew up on
the Upper West Side of
Manhattan.
>> LEE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: New York City.
And in, you would say, what, a
traditional Chinese family,
relatively traditional?
>> LEE: Yeah, with a mom and dad.
My parents came over in the
1970s as part of the... you
know, the Open Door Act that
sort of let more educated
immigrants in, and a lot more
people from Asia.
And then they came here, and
they had three little babies,
bump, bump, bump, that's me, my
sister, and my brother.
>> HINOJOSA: By the way, J, F,
K.
>> LEE: It's true.
My name is Jennifer, my sister's
name is Frances, and my
brother's name is Kenneth.
And if you take our initials, it
spells JFK, which my parents
like to say is the airport that
they landed at when they came to
America.
>> HINOJOSA: When you were
growing up, did you have this
kind of constant critical
perspective of, "What is the
food that I'm eating as a
Chinese firstborn in this
country," versus, "What is the
food that's being eaten in my
Upper West Side New York City
neighborhood," and kind of
this... or were you just like,
"You know what?
I'm a New Yorker," or, "I'm a
Chinese immigrant"?
>> LEE: Yeah, no, I was, like, a kid.
No, I was a kid, and to be
honest, when I was growing up, I
loved beef and broccoli and,
like, you know, roast pork lo
mein.
And my mom actually would tell
me, you know, "That's not real
Chinese food."
And I'm like, "What do you mean
it's not real Chinese food?
We get it from the Chinese
takeout on the corner," right?
>> HINOJOSA: So you guys would
call.
>> LEE: Or I would go down.
We didn't have to call, because,
you know, I was, like, you know,
ten years old, and I'd go, "Bop
bop bop ba..." you know, because
it's on the block, and you just
go, and you say, "I want beef
with broccoli, roast pork, fried
rice, and your chicken lo mein."
You know, egg rolls or two.
And we would eat it.
And I actually didn't understand
that there was that significant
a difference between, like,
Chinese food and this takeout
until I went to China.
Because I just felt like, "Well,
my mom might not be, like, the
greatest cook."
Or the fact, that, you know,
like, pizza... like, pizza is
very different, what you get in
a cafeteria versus what you get
in a restaurant, right?
So I'm just like, "Oh, maybe,
like, my mom doesn't have, like,
the right, like, you know, wok,
or the right kind of stove."
>> HINOJOSA: So you actually
liked the Chinese food from the
restaurant.
>> LEE: Oh, it's so much better,
because it's full of MSG, you
know, or it was full of MSG.
>> HINOJOSA: Your poor mom.
Did you tell her that?
Were you like, "Mom, I like the
Chinese food from the restaurant
better"?
>> HINOJOSA: I think she knew.
I mean, she's like, "Oh, that's
not real Chinese food."
And I couldn't understand what
she was talking about, right?
But then, you know, we would go
to Flushing, which was the...
you know, the Chinatown for the
Taiwan immigrants at that time.
And then they would order like,
you know, big fishes with, like,
the eyes sticking out, or, like,
you know, chicken claws, or,
like, you know, cow's tongue.
Like there were all these, like,
bits of animal that you don't
see in an American supermarket.
And then I was like, "Why can't
we order beef fried rice," or
whatever.
And they're like, "That's not
Chinese food."
Like, "Don't do that."
But in my reference to the
world, you know, it was Chinese
food, and it was going to China
when I was older that I was able
to sort of understand, "Oh,
wait, this is really different,"
you know?
And in traveling the world and
also spending a lot time
studying in Taiwan I
understood suddenly, like, "Oh,
my God, Chinese food adapts."
Like, when you go to Mexico
there's... you know, they have
things that look like fajitas.
And if you go to France you have
salt and pepper frog legs.
You know?
So it's actually only in this
larger context, you know,
comparative food, that you begin
to understand the role that
Chinese food has had and how
it's sort of adapted.
>> HINOJOSA: So were you a
foodie when you were growing up?
>> LEE: Not particularly.
>> HINOJOSA: Do you consider
yourself a foodie now?
>> LEE: You know, I don't, actually.
I think I consider myself sort
of, like, a food, like, expert,
and I really enjoy, like, food,
and analyzing food.
But the reason I don't is
because my boyfriend considers
himself a foodie.
And even though he only eats
five substances, which is, like,
bread, tofu, cheese, pasta, and,
like, desserts.
Like, he's a carbotarian.
And he gets so upset...
>> HINOJOSA: Carbotarian?
>> LEE: He's a carbotarian.
He's a...
>> HINOJOSA: Is this another
word that you created, Jennifer?
Because you're known for
actually coming up with a few
things.
You created mandate.
>> LEE: Oh, I helped popularize
mandate.
But I had overheard it in some
context.
>> HINOJOSA: And lets just make
it clear-- it's not a mandate
for something.
>> LEE: Like a mandate of heaven,
right?
>> HINOJOSA: It's a man date.
>> LEE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: What was the other
thing that you popularized?
>> LEE: I... I think... let's see,
what else have I popularized?
I popularized the idea that
Neveah, which is heaven spelled
backwards, is the fastest
growing baby name in the United
States ever in terms of its
history.
So yeah, carbotarian, I think it
should exist.
I'm sure if you googled it it
would exist.
I happen to, you know, use it as
applied to him.
And it's interesting, because he
gets upset.
Because he is a foodie within
those very narrow categories.
And he... you know, he's like,
"She's not a foodie.
I'm a foodie."
You know, "She..." because to me
food is fascinating from, like,
an intellectual perspective, and
I definitely enjoy, like, oh,
trying that and that.
Like, "Oh," you know, "what is,"
like, you know, "Szechuan
alligator like, in terms of
Cajun Chinese food?
Let's go try it."
And so I'm...
>> HINOJOSA: That's right,
because you did do that, right?
There was this Szechuan
alligator.
There was the other... you have
these fascinating stories in
this book that actually has
got... well, it was a
bestseller, but you also got,
like, a big cult following.
>> LEE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: There were some
other things that I remember.
There was one about the story of
the Chinese food that's kosher
in the South, that people drive
four hours to and from to get.
>> LEE: Totally.
The Jews love Chinese food, or
as I like to say, you know, why
is chow mein the chosen food of
the chosen people?
And they will go to great
lengths.
There's a basic... it's
basically a takeout.
It was called Hai Peking.
And it... people would fly.
My favorite example is the guy
who flew his little plane from
Tennessee to Atlanta to pick up,
you know, Chinese food for their
big synagogue banquet, you know,
because it was glatt kosher
Chinese food.
So it was very, very, very
specialized.
And it's, like the only glatt
kosher Chinese restaurant within
700 miles.
And they would deliver by Fed
Ex, you know?
That's, like, pretty hard core.
They would, like, you know, cook
it, freeze it on dry ice, and
then they would, you know, ship
it the next day.
>> HINOJOSA: So what is it...
you know, I actually... when I
was reading your book, and I
said to people... it's like,
"Gosh, you know, I really
hadn't..." I mean, I guess if I
had thought about it I would
have put the fact that Chinese
food and Jewish people... yeah.
>> LEE: Yeah, you're in New York.
>> HINOJOSA: Right.
But, like, until I read it, I
was like, "Oh, my gosh, it's
really true."
And I hadn't thought about the
fact that... this other great
fact, which is Chinese
restaurants, their biggest day
of sale is...
>> LEE: Christmas, by far, yeah.
And it's really funny, because
if you watched the hearings for
Elena Kagan the other day, one
of the questions they asked her,
you know, was, like, "Where were
you Christmas Day?"
Because that was the day of the
bombing.
And she was at first, like, very
defensive, because she didn't
know, whether, you know, it was
a terror question, or whatever.
And they're like, "No, we just
want to know where you were."
And she laughed, and said,
"Well, like all Jews, I was
probably at a Chinese
restaurant."
And in New York City especially,
it's sometimes twice as popular
at least, compared to your next
popular... your second most
popular day.
Because, you know, for a long
time Chinese restaurants were
the ones that were open on
Christmas.
And it just became this
interesting American Jewish
tradition.
And it's specific to
America.
I mean, it's not like they're
doing this in Israel.
>> HINOJOSA: It's also because
of the fact that these are two
immigrant groups that are not
Christian.
>> LEE: Yeah, the two largest
non-Christian immigrant groups.
And they... you know, so Chinese
restaurants are open on Sundays,
you know, and they're open on
Christmas, when Jews wanted to
go out to eat, whereas everyone
else was sort of in their day of
rest.
And other things.
You know, Chinese food doesn't
use dairy, which is really
critical.
Because there was a time when
many, many, many more Jews kept
kosher, right?
Whereas the two other main ethic
cuisines in America are Italian
and Mexican, both of which use,
you know, significant amounts of
dairy.
>> HINOJOSA: Well, actually, in
Mexico, they don't really use
that much dairy.
>> LEE: Oh, interesting.
>> HINOJOSA: That's Americanized
Mexican food.
>> LEE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Actually, it's kind
of low dairy in Mexico.
It's the same thing, you know?
The Mexican food in Mexico is
actually...
>> LEE: Totally diff... that also was
very shock... like, you know,
burritos, like, not Mexican.
Like, what is that all about?
I know.
>> HINOJOSA: No, no.
Now they have burritos in
Mexico, because they want to...
it's a strange thing that
happens.
>> LEE: Spaghetti and meatballs, also
not Italian.
It's this... it's interesting,
right?
Because it's part of this
phenomenon that I call
indigenous Chinese... oh, sorry,
indigenous foreign cuisine, that
we think of them as foreign or
exotic or ethnic, but in fact
they were developed in America.
So the burritos, Italian
spaghetti and meatballs.
So what happens is this book
tries to make you think twice
of, like, what it means to be
American, right?
That in fact you think of it...
you may think of it as something
foreign, when in fact people in
China, you know, or maybe even
in Mexico, whatever, don't
recognize this food when you
show it to them.
You know, fortune cookies, of
course, is the canonical
example, and hence why my book.
>> HINOJOSA: Speaking of fortune
cookies, well, you did write a
book called The Fortune Cookie
Chronicles, inspired by this
story about fortune cookies and
lotto ticket winners and the
fact that all of these people
had won this huge lottery.
>> LEE: 110 people came in second,
March 30, 2005.
>> HINOJOSA: And it was all from
numbers that they got.
>> LEE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: Okay, so we're
going to open... now, these
fortune cookies...
>> LEE: Those are special.
Those are not your typical...
>> HINOJOSA: These are not your
typical...
>> LEE: Vanilla fortune cookies,
right?
>> HINOJOSA: These I would eat,
I have to be honest with you.
>> LEE: Yes, I know, I know.
I would say that fresh fortune
cookies are actually really
good.
But the ones that are kind of
shipped and...
>> HINOJOSA: But these are
special because they're
chocolate, right?
>> LEE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: It's the chocolate.
All right, so now we're going to
read this fortune.
It says, "Spring has sprung,
life is blooming."
Now, you're going to look at
this.
This has got numbers and
everything.
>> LEE: Oh, yeah.
And now there's a whole, like,
"Learn Chinese" phenomenon on...
that has, you know, been sparked
in the last couple of years.
>> HINOJOSA: From these fortune
cookies.
So what do we know, Jennifer,
after you wrote your book The
Fortune Cookie Chronicles, what
do we know about where these
little pieces of thought came to
be and why... because they're
not actually...
>> LEE: They're not Chinese, and
they're not American.
In fact, you know, my, like,
main intellectual contribution
to this planet at this point is
probably kind of helping to
prove that fortune cookies are
Japanese in origin,.
And we know this for two
reasons, one which is still
today in Japan, outside Kyoto,
they have small family-run
bakeries that are making fortune
cookies by hand.
But they're not yellow, they're
not small.
They're, like, this kind of big,
brown, very nutty flavored kind
of fortune cookie.
And they don't do them with
machines.
It's very much an artisan craft.
So that's one.
And two, there is a drawing from
the late 1800s that a Japanese
researcher dug up through many,
many, many hours of sifting
through the archives in Japan,
and it shows a man in a kimono,
you know, back then, in an
etched kind of drawing, making
fortune cookies.
And together, we know that.
And so what happened is that the
Japanese immigrants came to
America around the turn of the
20th century, and they
brought... you know, some of
them made, you know, cookies and
whatnot for a living.
And so they brought some of that
over with them.
And it's been fascinating,
because it started out sort of
very localized, very
Californian, kind of like, you
know, a very regional thing.
But at a certain point it became
a big thing.
And we were able to sort of
track that back to World War II,
in part.
Because what happened was they
were being kind of served in
California, maybe Los Angeles,
but basically in the San
Francisco Chinatown.
And what happened is that San
Francisco was such a big port of
call, like, during World War II,
and you had all these soldiers
going in and out of San
Francisco.
Of course they went to
Chinatown in order to eat and
to, you know, watch the singing
and the dancing.
And then they had these cookies,
and they go home after the war,
they go to Minnesota, Iowa, and
they ask their local Chinese
restaurant, "Why don't you have
those authentic cookies?"
And the Chinese restaurateur
goes, "What cookies," you know?
And but slowly within a span of
basically 15 years they go from
something that's in California
to a nationwide phenomenon.
>> HINOJOSA: But doesn't it also
have to do with the fact that
the Japanese were interned?
>> LEE: Right, right.
>> HINOJOSA: So... which I think
is the other thing that your
book does really interestingly.
Because it shows how, you know,
while food may be incorporated
into part of all of us as
Americans...
>> LEE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: ...it's been a
really hard, sometimes painful,
tragic history behind that.
Because part of what gave birth
to the fortune cookie was the
fact that the Japanese were
being interned.
>> LEE: Right.
So the idea... well, I kind of
basically figured out... and
this is something that I pieced
together.
We know it's Japanese, and we
know it's... you know, it's
basically Japanese before World
War I, and by the end of World
War II they're, like, totally
Chinese.
So how did that jump, you know,
happen?
And what I kind of pieced
together was, you know, talking
to these... you know, the
families that still have these
bakeries that are open, I was
like, "Oh," you know, "you've
been open for three generations.
That's, like, amazing."
They're like, "Yeah, you know,
we've been open almost 100
years, except for that time when
we were all locked up," right?
And it's part of their... you
know, so many of them... some of
them were born there, some of
them, you know, had family
members that died in internment
camps.
And so it's sort of at this, you
know, juncture that you see the
Chinese moving in.
And they take the fortune
cookie, and they popularize it,
you know, because they can make
it cheaper and faster and
whatnot.
And so as I like to say, the
Japanese invented the fortune
cookie, the Chinese popularized
it.
But they ultimately are consumed
by Americans.
And so, you know, because you
locked up all the Japanese,
swept up in that were those who
made fortune cookies.
>> HINOJOSA: So you... one of
the things that you do in your
reporting, you did a lot of this
when you were a reporter for the
New York Times, and you do it so
beautifully in your book, is
that you take the invisible
masses of workers, food workers,
so many of them Chinese, the men
who are delivering the Chinese
food, the men and women who are
cooking, who are taking the
orders, and you basically give
them life.
>> LEE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: Why was it
important for you to take that
delivery man, to take that cook
at the takeout in, you know,
wherever, Alabama, and do a
story?
Why is that important for you?
>> LEE: You know, one of the reasons
I became a journalist way back
when-- you know, I had this
epiphany between high school and
college-- was listening to
someone tell me his story about
having... he was 16, he had
tried to kill himself twice,
because he was black and gay,
and that combination was sort of
very, you know, hard on him.
And I had this moment where I'm
like, "I want to do this for the
rest of my life.
I want to give voice to the
voiceless."
And I think a lot of that comes
from, you know, an immigrant
background, that, you know,
growing up you might not have
seen these kinds of stories in
the media.
And what's kind of been great
is, you know, the children of
these immigrants, who themselves
can be, like, a bridge between,
you know, their parents' kind of
generation, and then also the
mainstream society, we can act
as that translator in sort of
giving context to stories in a
way that's not so, like, you
know colonial, or sort of, you
know, very much kind of, like,
you know, arm's length.
You can write to a perspective
that you can have, because you
have cultural context.
So one of my favorite examples
with this Chinese immigrant
family that I cover is that if
you talk to, you know, all these
Fujianese, who are basically the
backbone of the Chinese
restaurant system here, a lot of
them come through New York City.
And so New York City is their
reference to the world, right?
So they have New York City, and
then they have everywhere else.
And they call...
>> HINOJOSA: But what's
interesting is that when they
leave China, where they're
leaving is actually a very
beautiful place, there's a lot
of green, there's a lot of
lakes, there's a lot of nature.
And then they come into New York
City.
>> LEE: Which is not, like, green and
lakes and nature, basically.
Except for maybe a small piece
of Central Park.
>> HINOJOSA: And it's a.. and
for some...
>> LEE: It's very tragic.
>> HINOJOSA: And it's a
tremendously long journey.
You cover the story of one man
from the Golden Venture.
>> LEE: Yes.
>> HINOJOSA: And his journey
was...
>> LEE: 120 days, I think, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: 120 days.
>> LEE: Or his journey might actually
have been longer, but the boat
itself was about 120 days,
right.
And so it is... you know, it's
this immense exodus, right?
So that part of China, which is
the northern Fujian Province,
around the capitol city of
Fuzhou, is the number one
Chinese restaurant exporting
region in the world.
And...
>> HINOJOSA: In China, do they
kind of own that?
Are they like, "We're from this
area, we're the Fujianese, and
we export Chinese food workers
around the world"?
>> LEE: They... I don't they're proud
of it.
They are proud, maybe, of the
fact that they go to America,
right, and that they... because
they can save money, they can
build these mansions.
They send, you know, hundreds of
thousands, millions of dollars
back to these little towns, and
then there are these mansions
that are weird because they're
empty, right?
Because everyone's left.
So there's a ghost town called
Houyu, which means "Monkey
Island," which is weird, because
there are no monkeys and it's
not really an island.
And they are 80% missing.
I mean, you just go in there and
there are no men of working age.
There are women, there are
children, and there are old
people.
Because, you know, they're in
America cooking and taking the
order and delivering your
chicken.
>> HINOJOSA: Are they going to
stay here?
I mean, is this... because
again, with your book, you're
basically saying they are part
of who we are.
>> LEE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: When you report on
these immigrants, is your sense,
Jennifer, that they are here,
that they are... "Okay, we are
American, we will end up staying
here"?
>> LEE: I think... so it's
interesting.
I don't know that they identify
necessarily as, "We are
American," but they definitely
want American citizenship, and
they want a better child... a
better life for their children.
>> HINOJOSA: But some of their
children are being sent back,
even though they're born here.
>> LEE: That's one fascinating thing.
>> HINOJOSA: This was
heartbreaking.
So these Fujianese families who
come, some of them will... and
who are working seven days a
week in the Chinese restaurants
that we're all eating from.
>> LEE: Yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: They will have
babies born here.
>> LEE: So they're American citizens.
>> HINOJOSA: They're American
citizens.
But then they'll send them back
to be...
>> LEE: Because they're too busy,
yeah.
They're too busy to raise their
own children.
So you have these kids who are
sent back to be raised by
Grandpa and Grandma.
And then they get kind of
shipped back to America when
they're, like, ready for school.
But they don't know their
parents, right?
Their parents are almost virtual
strangers.
And in many cases, there's a lot
of heartache and a lot of sort
of family issues.
And so social workers sort of in
and around, like, Chinatown have
been dealing with this issue
over time.
You know, in part...
>> HINOJOSA: Over decades.
>> LEE: Over decades, yeah.
>> HINOJOSA: But how come...
>> LEE: They call them satellite
children sometimes.
>> HINOJOSA: How come we don't
know about these stories?
How come these stories, which...
again, Chinese immigration to
this country is not new.
>> LEE: No.
>> HINOJOSA: It's not new.
So... yet so many of these
stories are not part of our
mainstream understanding.
>> LEE: Yeah, I would say that every
so once in a while you'll get,
like, the front page perky
interesting story about the
babies being shipped back, and
then you have a story that kind
of comes this way with the kids,
you know, having trouble in
school.
But it's not part of... I would
say those stories are sort of
luxuries to do, in part because
you have to know the community
really well, you have to spend
time to tell that story in a way
that leaders...
>> HINOJOSA: Do you believe that
the mainstream media... I mean,
you worked for the New York
Times.
>> LEE: I would say the New York
Times actually did a pretty good
job on the issue of the children
in Chinatown through a series of
immigration reporters that I
actually, you know... I don't
think I worked on any of those
stories directly.
>> HINOJOSA: But is it still
seen kind of in the media that
this is... that the Chinese, the
Asian population, is, like, this
foreign population, and
therefore not American, and
therefore...
>> LEE: I think part of... I will say
that Chinatown as Chinatown gets
a surprising amount of coverage,
not just in, you know, New York
City, but in cities all over the
United States, in part because
of this exotic factor, for
better or for worse.
So if there's a crime or there
is some kind of movement or
there is some kind of building
or there's a conflict, in
certain kind of things they'll
cover pretty well, compared to
other immigrant groups, like,
let's say, Koreans or... Korean
Americans or certain kinds of...
like, maybe even South Asian
Americans, I think partially
because almost every major city
has a Chinatown or something
thereof, right?
And so in sort of the
intellectual mind share of any
given city, there's always a
fascination with Chinatown and
Chinese immigrants.
>> HINOJOSA: You said that part
of why you wanted to write this
book was because you wanted to
understand your own
Americanness, and you wanted
Americans, all of us, to
understand who we are.
>> LEE: Right.
>> HINOJOSA: So what don't we
understand, and what did you
come away understanding better
about who you are as an
American?
And you have this beautiful line
in the book that says, "If you
look at me, you see foreign, but
if you hear me..."
>> LEE: Yeah, you hear someone who's
American.
And it's... and it's funny,
right?
Because you'll get this
question... maybe you get it
too.
Often from cab drivers.
It's like, "So where are you
from?"
And I'm like... and, you know,
it's New York.
And I'm like, "Well, I'm from
here."
They're like, "No, where are you
really from?
>> LEE: And often-- it's
interesting-- from immigrant
people themselves, right?
And I'm like, "I'm really from
here.
I was born and raised in New
York City, and I live here now."
I could not be more from
anywhere on this planet.
And I know they want to say...
they really want to know,
"What's your genetic
background?"
I wish there was... I just wish
there was a socially acceptable
way to say I'm genetically
Chinese.
But the idea is that you can
look at me, and if you're... and
they think you're foreign, which
can be useful, you know, if you
don't want to speak with them.
Because you can be like, "Oh, no
speak English," right?
But...
>> HINOJOSA: You actually do
that?
>> LEE: I mean, like, I've done, "Oh,
no speak English."
But in reality, you know, if
you're... if you were to listen
to this whole, you know, tape
with your eyes closed, you would
hear someone who's totally
American.
And that was so stunning to me,
not from the context of being in
the United States, but from me
traveling around the world.
And I would meet, like, Latino
Chinese, and French Chinese, and
Mauritian Chinese, and Indian
Chinese.
Indian Chinese, totally weird,
right?
They look like me, but they
speak Hindi, and they wear, you
know... or multiple dialects,
because we're in India.
And they have gold chains, and
they sort of move like, you
know, in, like... you know,
South Asians.
And you'll go to Peru, where
they've had, you know, a
150-year history of Chinese
immigration there.
>> HINOJOSA: And great Chinese
food.
>> LEE: And great Chinese food.
>> HINOJOSA: The best.
>> LEE: And they have Chinese men who
can dance, like, salsa,
merengue.
And I was like, "Wow, I've never
seen such elastic hips on, like,
an Asian guy before," right?
It's so fascinating.
>> HINOJOSA: So what do you
want... what do you want us to
take away from this, Jennifer?
>> LEE: I think that first of all,
this idea of authenticity, of
being, like, true, is sort of an
artifact.
Like, what does it mean to be
authentically Chinese, right?
Because I, in a certain way, am
authentically Chinese American
in a way that General Gau's
chicken, you know, is not
authentically Chinese, but it's
authentic to its time and place.
And to recognize that a lot of
these things that... being
basically American doesn't mean
having a Eurocentric view of the
world, right?
Now... I mean, and it's sort of
so invisible to us, because
society just sort of changes and
changes, like, and changes.
So, like, you can go to
Starbuck's and get soy milk,
which is not originally
something, you know, in America.
And, you know, we go to a gym in
Harlem.
And some of the people who are
best at yoga-- and it's
definitely sort of an
Americanized yoga-- are these,
like, big, black, buff guys,
right?
You've seen them, right?
They're, like amazing on
their... it's not... you know,
they probably know more yoga
than, like the girl... you know,
the South Asian girls that I
went to school with, who don't,
you know?
And so... you know, and things
like, you know, burritos, and
the fact that, you know, we
celebrate things like Cinco de
Mayo sort of, just in the air.
Like, "Oh, time..." you know,
"We're going to have a happy
hour."
Like, these kinds of things have
become a big melting pot of what
it means to be American.
And historically what's going to
happen, I think, is that, you
know, that perspective is going
to become more expansive.
And I would hope that over time
that our understanding of, you
know, Americanness becomes
broader.
And I think all the more
powerful now, given who's in the
White House, right?
You know, the face that we are
presenting to the world is not
necessarily sort of, you know, a
white, very Anglo kind of face.
>> HINOJOSA: Very hopeful stuff,
Jennifer.
Thank you so much, and thank you
for all of your work and for
being such a great writer and a
great journalist.
>> LEE: Thank you so much for having
me.
Continue the conversation at
wgbh.org/oneonone.
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